All Forum Posts by: Ryan Pyle

Hi Darling, I have been investing full time in Toledo for 10 years. I own a lot of rentals, and have also done flips and wholesales. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have. 

@Account Closed you are correct that the multi-family vs. SFR decision is not unique to Toledo, and all of the debates surrounding the topic are covered in depth elsewhere on this site. Both have merits, and I think a mix of both is wise. However I can tell you that duplexes and triplexes do not work well in Toledo because the rents are not much more than apartments and not much less than SFR's, therefore there really isn't a segment of the market that they serve other than the "no one else will rent to them" crowd.

I have detailed historical data on my SFR's vs. multi's and am happy to answer any questions you may have. Both asset classes have their pros and cons.

Inside Toledo, even around UT, is very spotty. There are some good areas but the problem is they can turn bad very quickly. And once they turn bad they don't seem to snap out of it. So from a long term capital preservation standpoint I would suggest staying in WLS. The initial purchase prices inside Toledo may look attractive but I think over time the increased vacancy, vandalism, bad debt, eviction costs, repairs and turnover costs will more than make up the difference. I know because I own lots of properties in areas that were great 8 years ago but then turned bad. Trust me, you don't want to be in that situation. 

As a matter of fact I'm helping a guy from Australia right now who dumped his entire life savings into cheap Toledo properties. They are now all vacant, stripped and worthless. This could have been avoided had he bought fewer units in better areas. The cheap house business is not one you can do from a distance. You have to hustle and be on the ground knocking on doors, chasing rents and keeping an eye on your properties. A property manager won't do that for you. They aren't paid enough.

Sorry for the rant...my point is a good house in Toledo may cost you $40k, whereas a good house in WLS may cost you $50k. I'd pay the extra $10k all day long for the decreased risk and ease of management.

For flood plain info you can click here: http://lceo.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicview...

Hi @Account Closed , I've been investing full time in Toledo for almost 10 years now. Yes, the deals can be good, but don't let the low prices fool you. A $10,000 house is a piece of crap no matter where you look...even in Toledo. Please don't get fooled into buying something just because it can be bought for less than a used car.

With that said, my recommendation for an out of state investor is to buy in the Washington Local school district of Toledo. It is spread out mostly in the 43613, 43623 and a little bit in the 43606 zip codes. You can probably be all-in for around $50k for a good rental house and it will rent for $850 - $950 per month. The 50% rule for expenses is a pretty good rule of thumb in Toledo. The WLS school district is the blue-collar step-up from Toledo Public schools. It's always in high demand and there is a definite shortage of rental houses in the area. The big thing you have to watch out for is flood zones, as they run all through WLS. Do not buy a house that requires flood insurance as it adds about $1k per year in expense and will be very difficult to sell.

If you want multifamily you can find good deals in the $30k - $40k per unit range in Washington Local. Again, they are pretty easy to rent and manage as the tenant pool strong and the supply is short. 

Let me know how I can help. Good luck,

Ryan Pyle

Hi Aaron, I've been investing full time in Toledo for almost 10 years now. My one big regret is that I never got my license. I think a license, especially to a newbie, opens up money making opportunities that are not available to non-licensees. BTW...you can not manage property for others without a license in Ohio unless you own a piece of the property or you are an employee of the company that owns the property. So there's probably your first incentive. 

You do not have to join an agency yet. First you need to take the state required classes. Just google "Ohio real estate license classes" and you will find all the info you need. You have to take them in person, you can not do it online. While you are taking the classes different brokers from the area will come in and pitch you on joining their firms.

Feel free to contact me any time with questions. Good luck!

Hi Michael, a better way to use AREIS is to pull up the "Sales Report" (in red letters near the bottom of the list on the left side of the page under the "Data" tab).  Sort by Sales Date, don't include condos unless you are nuts and looking at condos. When you are looking at the report you should only consider properties that sold with a General Warranty deed, "GW", as those will be your most likely suspects for arms-length transactions. Do not consider SD (Sheriff Deed), FD (Fiduciary Deed), SD (Special Warranty Deed) or QC (Quit Claim Deed). Those are either foreclosure sales (SD, FD, SD), or if it's QC it could be a number of things but is often not an arm's length transaction. 

I wouldn't care too much about the tax value because tax values are not detailed appraisals, nor would  care how much the property last sold for because you will have no way of knowing the details of that sale (did grandma sell it to her grandson for cheap, or did the former buyers pay way too much because their mother lived next door and they really wanted to live next to her no matter what, or it could have been a foreclosure, etc.).

Also, the areas around UT are hit or miss, but the hits are usually pretty good. You can often sell to the parents of a UT student who want the house for their kid to live in while they are at school. But again, you have to be on the right streets.

I can definitely say that it feels a lot different in Toledo that it did a few years ago. Rents are going way up as are housing prices (in good areas, not in the ghetto). There is a lot of new commercial development along major roads and downtown development is finally taking off. If anyone has deep pockets and brass ba!!s, the aggressive play for big potential profits is downtown development. 

@Engelo Rumora that sounds like a good deal. They are definitely out there, but just a lot harder to find than a couple years ago. Maybe I got spoiled!

@Joe Villeneuve that's what I do here with multifamilies. But before I made that suggestion to the OP I wanted to get his take on wanting to be a landlord. The comes that matter of capital preservation and making sure he buys in good areas that will hold their value. He could also do the same with commercial properties and do NNN leases with a lower return but a much more hands-off experience.

Jim, did you build the homes for yourself or for clients? What about spec building?  

In my opinion there is not enough margin in the Toledo market for flipping right now. Or at least I haven't been able to find it. I used to do about 12 flips a year, but since the market picked up there's just too much risk for me. Wholesale prices (foreclosures, absentee owners, etc.) have risen a lot more than retail prices which has squeezed all the profit out. There are a couple of groups still flipping in the area, but they are mostly very wealthy individuals who work as a team and are just looking for returns slightly better than the stock market.