All Forum Posts by: Randall Alan

 @Akila Baskaran

Hi Akila,

I know you say you are new to RE investing.  But I would suggest that Foreclosures are really not a great place for beginners to start.  The topic is really broad.. and you are basically asking for "tell me everything"... so I will start off by saying that there is no way we could ever tell you everything you need to know... its just too nuanced and too many variables to possibly explain in a post.  But I will try to tell you a few things to help. 

The answer to a lot of your questions is going to depend on where you are located.  I'm in Florida, so can't give you specifics on OKC, but can tell you the general basics based on where I'm at... which is pretty typical for many locations (but don't quote me for your specific one).

The first thing to know is that there are a few flavors of foreclosures.  Sometimes the word is thrown around a bit loosely... but in its truest form a foreclosure is handled by the courts.  The courts are not in the real estate business... so they have no interest or capability to show a property to let you inspect it.  Sometimes you can glean some information about what a property looks like on the inside from a previous sale's photos that might be floating around on Zillow, etc.  But typically you have no idea what the inside is like - as photos like those could be years old.  Who's to say whether there is an AC unit in the attic / closet, whether someone stole the appliances, whether the roof is leaking, or what-have-you.  The general rule is "expect the worst and hope for the best!"  This is why foreclosures sell at a discount compared to other sales channels.

I will tell you that I have put my face up against more than a few windows as I have walked a foreclosure property when I can tell it is vacant.  If a door is unlocked, I might have had a peek around?!?   But often times there is still a tenant living in the property.  It's a 50/50 role of the dice if someone in a foreclosure is going to be civil to you if you approach them about their house.  Maybe they will give you a tour... maybe they will tell you to go fly a kite (or worse).  I personally don't approach properties that are occupied.  

But if they are occupied, there is a better chance that they haven't been stripped like many might have if they were vacant.  

Some locations have auctions literally "on the court house steps'... in Florida it works more like Ebay... most counties use a company called "real foreclose".  You register to bid, and have to have 5% of what you want to bid on deposit with the company (ie. real funds).  If you have $5,000 on deposit with them you could bid up to 100,000 on a property.  If the property auction exceeds $100,000 you won't be able to bid again because you would be past your 5% on deposit.

In Florida, if you win the auction, you have to show up the next day with the other 95% in certified funds.  If you don't, you forfeit the 5% from your bidding account.  So there is no financing, or time to apply for a loan... it's pretty much an all cash deal.  

I've heard of other places actually doing a more typical 30 day closing where you might be able to line up financing... but have no personal experience in that method.

As for titles and liens... it's all on you to do your research.  You can pay to have a title company run a title search, but more often than not you can read the foreclosure documents and determine a lot of information.  Given the odds of actually winning a foreclosure auction, the idea of paying to have a title search done on multiple properties is generally restrictive.  I've done it once when I was pretty serious about a purchase... but otherwise I do my own courthouse research by reading the foreclosure documents (online in my state).  A real title/lien search is going to be more thorough in all likelihood.

The most important piece of information is "who is the one foreclosing?" It could be anyone... a 1st position lender, a 2nd position lender, an HOA suing for their HOA fees, a 3rd party where a borrower pledged their house as collateral on a contract, etc, etc.

The biggest thing to know is that senior positions survive less senior positions. So a first position lender will typically wipe out lower position liens. There are exception though... municipal and federal liens typically survive. So if an HOA is suing for their annual fees, and you win the auction, there is likely still a multi-hundred thousand dollar loan on the property from the lender in first position. Again - you are playing with 'big financial numbers' and unless you really understand what you are doing, you could get yourself in a really awkward situation where you win something only to lose it to YOU being foreclosed on by someone else with a more senior position... so be very careful! I see people all the time bid on HOA auctions thinking they bought the property for $10-20,000. Then they find out that the mortgage on the property survives and have that 'oh #*$$#" moment.

Another thing to know is that auctions frequently cancel at the last minute because someone will do something to protect their property.  For instance, if someone files for bankruptcy, the sale will be canceled pending the bankruptcy.  Sometimes buyers will catch up the payments at the last minute to get the lender to cancel the foreclosure.  There are other situations where a potential buyer may catch up the borrower in a side agreement to buy the property at a discount.  So don't be surprised to see many auctions get postponed or cancelled. 

I googled OKC foreclosures and found this site which looks like it has the basic rules for bidding in your area, etc:

https://docs.oklahomacounty.org/sheriff/sheriffsales/

That same link also has another link to all the current available properties.

Happy to answer more specific questions, but hopefully some of that helps!

Randy

@Jose Diaz

I’ve been to small claims court a number of times… usually suing the tenant for back rent they owe.

the first thing I would tell you is that if usually starts off with mediation, where you meet face to face with your tenant and a mediator to try and hash something out.  If you can’t, then there is a trial.

I would  suggest that what happens at trial will probably be governed first by the terms of your lease, but also by the landlord-tenant statutes of your state. So I would probably look to your lease for part of your  answer.   Typically damages are what the security deposit is there for.  But on the other hand I could see someone arguing “normal wear and tear”.  It probably  just depends of the nature of the damage and how realistic it seems that could randomly happen.  The question of “how old was the previous faucet may come up, and if you don’t have a knowledgeable / provable “it was pretty new” kind of answer I could see a judge siding with the tenant on wear and tear logic.  Again… don’t know the specifics or what it looked like or how it broke.  

Being that a faucet probably costs $100 at most for a faucet for a rental, and maybe. $100-$150 if you hired someone to put it in, I would weigh the value of your time to deal with court.  Also, whoever loses may also owe the filing fees for the small claims process.  So that may be as much as what the cost of the faucet repair was.  Filing for small claims in my state is literally one piece of paper… it’s pretty easy  for the tenant to go there  (ie. it doesn’t take a lawyer and fronting a lot of money to do it)

I might suggest to offer to split cost with her as a way to avoid the hassle and possible expense of small claims.l and create a win-win situation.  If you approach her with the attitude of, “I can see your point, but hopefully you can see mine as well” … “how about we split the cost and avoid the hassle and call it a day” might be the best solution.  

Best of luck 

Randy 

 @Joshua Pomeroy

I have less of an answer for you, and more a word of caution that many seminars are designed to prey on people like you (the newbie).

They will present you with an “incredible opportunity”. The first seminar will likely be “free”…. Where they will just what your appetite for their bigger seminar coming up.  The 2nd seminar may be $100-500… for a multi-day  presentation …who is to say… but whatever it costs… it’s easily obtainable for the typical person looking to invest in real estate.  At this 2nd seminar comes the ‘big pitch’… be a part of ‘the club’… (it will have a fancy name) … maybe “master  mind group” where they will promise the world to you if you join… it’s only <insert crazy price here>… one of the ones I went to was upwards of $40-50,000.. and they hammered it home every 15-20 minutes

The thing you have to realize is that there is often a ton of psychology that goes into these presentations to get you to act and pull out your checkbook.  It’s just short of a time-share presentation sometimes! 

So just be very cautious and try to view what you are watching with an element of skepticism as to why they are telling you what you are hearing from them.  It will seem like it is a no-lose proposition I promise you! 

There are plenty of people that will probably post here that this seminar or that seminar is great… and I’m sure that many are!   But at the end of the day, most seminars are there to make the presenter lots of money sharing their “method”.  Just keep that in mind.

You can learn a great deal scavenging bigger pockets.  Very little is new in real estate.  I would encourage you to use the Bigger Pockets forums  and to search for whatever seminar you’re interested in.  
It is highly likely that you will find people have already spoken about it and you’ll be able to get a feel for whether it is worth it or not.
You can also just use the Internet and search that way as well.  If you really want to turn up the volume on the negative side of things, try including the words “and scam”.

Again, I’m not making commentary on anyone’s particular seminar. But you have to realize what each person‘s role is.  Theirs is to present the opportunity… yours is to buy it.

all the best!

Randy 

@Steve Smith

Hi Steve,

I probably have less of an answer, and more of an analysis for you...

I was watching a video recently by an aviation journalist (not just some random individual) and he was analyzing the variable cost of owning a small private jet.  The video in question was for a single engine Cirrus Vision Jet.

I wasn't taking notes or anything, but if I recall correctly the variable cost of just maintaining the jet, along with fuel expense was about $1,000/hour for 250 hours of use/year, and about $1,300 per hour for 50 hours per year.  This DID NOT include buying the $2-3 million jet, or a pilot (the presumption in the video was you as the owner would be the pilot).

I think it might come down to how many people you fly with when you travel?  For 1-2 people, this expense gets pretty high... but if you are dividing by 6 or 8 on a fractional basis, maybe it starts to make more sense.  The numbers I recall seeing from the fractional ownership companies was around $2,500/hour.  So for a 5 hour trip from say Florida to maybe California you are probably talking $25,000 round trip.  That's a chunk of change for a single trip for 2. But for 8 people you are talking $3,000/person for that first class experience... probably closer to comparable to first class with a regular airline.   If you are talking about a private jet like first mentioned, you are still talking $13,000 for the variable costs of that trip before paying for the plane or a pilot for a plane that carries a pilot plus 5.  For Jet travel, by the time you factor in buying the plane and getting a pilot, I don't think you are saving anything owning your own small jet; and you run the risk of some major expenses should something big need to be replaced.

The thing I have always heard is that if you aren't flying a jet 150 hours a year, it isn't worth it (it's too expensive).  Many will put their jet out for charter to help offset that expense (ie. maximize it's usage)

Again, probably less of an answer, and more of an analysis.

Hope it provided some food for thought!

Randy

@Robel Nessro

I think the obvious answer in the current environment is the HYSA.  If you had asked me a year ago, I would have always said the stock market, but the stock market relies on stability to function well.  With the current political environment, and the administration going against investment norms with the tariffs, you just don't  know what you are going to get from one day to the next.  I think the safest place is where you at least have a guaranteed return with no risk.  

All the best!

Randy

@Allende Hernandez

Hi Allende,

I'm in Lakeland.  Combined utilities can be a pain.  Some of your solutions are 'easy' though... Like the trash cans... Usually you can request a second can for a residence.  Maybe there is a little extra charge, but if it solves the problem, it's probably worth it.

Same thing for mowing the lawn... find a provider and build it into the cost of the rent.  That way it gets done, the vendor gets paid, and you don't get code violation letters from the city

For the AC, you should probably just run one side completely on the mini-split system and let the other tenant have the 'central' AC.

We have combined water on several of our duplexes.  Our solution -  we pay the water and build it into the rent.  That's a little trickier on Electric.  But you are probably in a no-win situation there, as who is to say who is using the electric.   The smarter solution would be to split the utilities into 2 meters.  It would take an electrician, and some expense (2nd circuit breaker box, 2nd meter, etc)... but it's the only 'clean way I would say you could solve the issue, and honestly it's the right way to do this for a long term renters.  

Same thing with the tenant not changing the utilities into their name, the solution is to make it where they are the only one using them - then the answer is either put them in your name, or you have no utilities.  

I don't think either of you are at fault here... but your tenant has valid concerns.  On your side, you are just stuck with the issue until you solve it in a workable way.  I don't see better solutions on the electric other than splitting them.   The best thing to do is to set your property up the right way to rent.  I suggest thinking of it as a start-up cost.  It's never fun to spend that money, but you have created a bad situation by what is in essence  subletting part of the house without the utilities being optimized for that split. 

And while you didn't mention it, I'm sure you aren't too far from hearing about the  pool care expense - include it in rent as well and manage the contractor yourself.

Hope it helps!

Randy

 @Zach Logan

You are missing everything… hoping I’m not missing the joke?!?

On the presumption you really want to know, your rate of return on your money is vastly different.  First let’s start that a $200 a month return on $400,000 investment is a lousy rate of return and will always be 1/4 of the $100,000 property if comparing 1 unit versus the other individually.  $2,400 divided by $400,000 is a .6% return per year.   Versus $2400 divided by $100,000 is 2.4%, still crappy in my book but way better than .06!

I would also suggest that the 4 units would perform better because rent versus square footage isn’t always a linear relationship.   So if your 400k rental was 4x the size of 4 smaller units you could not usually demand 4x the rent for the bigger one… at least that has been our experience.  
Then there is the cash flow of 4 - $100,000 units versus the 1 larger $400,000 unit.   Even using your number that is $800 versus $200 / month.
There is also the notion of spreading your risk.  If you have your big unit malfunction (think squatter or someone not paying their rent) that is 100% of your rent not covered. If you had 1 unit of 4 smaller units not performing you are in a much better situation. 
You are also in a much better position as to exit strategies to your properties with 4 smaller units.  Sell one keep 3, etc, etc versus only having one unit to work with.  
There can be some downsides… increased maintenance and capex with 4 smaller units.  But if that is offset by 4x the rent that might be a wash. Those are a few if the differences.

Randy 

@Aaron Rushton

Hi Aaron,

A few things you may not have thought about...

First - property managers... I would ask you, "Do you really need one?"  First off - they are expensive when you factor in your net profit.  Say you rent your unit for $1,000 a month.  They are going to take $100 of that.  But if you are only making $300 net profit a month, that translates to 33% of your money going to that property manager. Plus many PMs charge the first month's rent to fill the unit.  So the first month it costs $1,000 to you.  Across the year that is $2,200 of your $3,600 in net profit on the example above.  Properties really aren't that hard to manage (we self-manage 37 of them - albeit our full time job)... but a single property doesn't need a property manager.  Just try doing it yourself first, I think you will find it's pretty easy!

Second - the LLC - Realize that if you didn't buy it in the LLC's name, you are effectively going to have to sell the property to the LLC. There is no 'transfer' process. That means that when you 'transfer' the property to the LLC, you will pay all of the transfer taxes, etc a second time to your local government. Also, at least in Florida where I live, there is a grand-fathering on property taxes... they can only be raised a certain amount per year... but as soon as you transfer / sell the property that grandfathering goes away and they will re-evaluate your taxes. So you might check into that for Tennessee.

Once you form your LLC, use the LLC paperwork to open a corporate checking account. Running your expenses through a business account will definitely help you keep your taxes and finances more in order.

All the best!

Rnady

@Jared Stong

Hi Jared,

A lot of your answer falls around your available resources.  While I know you say you don't wan't critique, the "this quarter" part of your question through me for a pause...   I could be more on board with "this year".  

Ignoring that though, my best suggestion is to just START.  I would bet at this point you don't even know if you are going to like the process.  Do your first deal and just see if you even like the experience.  From your question I can't tell if you are talking about wholesaling, or quick flips, or what?  I'm guessing wholesaling, as flips don't fit the timeline you mention very well.  

But then you say "purchased 10 properties and sold them for minimum profit..." so maybe you are looking to buy under valued properties and reselling them?  Just realize that the average property takes 30-45 days to sell (once under contract) if you are talking about a buyer financing the property.  This also goes for you buying the properties if you are financing them as well.  Investment properties usually take 20% down to purchase.  So if you are talking about a $150,000 property, you will need $37,500 or so per property you are buying. To have multiple deals going at the same time you will need some significant financial resources. 

If you are looking at flips, just realize that the typical success rate on contacts is in the sub 1% range on a good month.  So for every 100 calls / contacts you make, you MAY find 1 that COULD develop into a deal. So to get 3 in a month (~10 in a quarter) you are talking about at least 1,000 contacts per month at a 1% deal flow, with 99% of your phone calls ending up with a "not interested".  Many people outsource this task.  

I would tell you that your are likely to be chasing the same leads that many other people are chasing though.  I own a number of rentals, which makes my phone number show up on call lists like crazy.  On average I get 5-10 calls a week asking me if I would be interested in selling my property.  The answer is always the same, "I'm an investor too, no thanks!"

So trying to find qualified lead lists can be tough because every non-owner occupied home is going to look like a potential lead to the list aggregators, when in reality the vast majority of them are rentals where the owner has no interest in selling. So finding the right target market can be challenging. 

So my suggestion is to make your first goal "to start".  Then look to see if you can increase that number to 10.  I think after a month or two you will get a good feel on whether your 10x goals are obtainable.  If you are a marketing aficionado - one who enjoys the challenge -  you may thrive (think 'wolf of wall street'!) 

All the best!

Randy

 @Jonathan Rivera

Hi Jonathan,

Ok, I'll bite...

The first thing I would do would be to have you do a 'reality check' on YOUR capability to achieve such a plan.  I would start off with telling you that we did what you are asking about... BUT it takes a lot of resources to accomplish.... and we did it 7 years ago when frankly it was easier to do.

You don't really give a direction you are wanting to go with your plan.  For us we used long term rentals.  I would tell you that short term rentals would probably accomplish the goal faster, but they have more moving parts.  We preferred long term rentals because they were far less turn-over than STRs and in general required less attention... but they are also lower income comparatively.

As for the reality check - you have to start out acknowledging that you have to acquire passive assets to earn passive income. When we started out 7 years ago, our goal was for each unit we purchased to clear $300/month after all expenses including Capex and maintenance. At the time, it turned out that was a pretty easy thing to accomplish. But if you stop right there, and use that number as a baseline, at $300/month it is going to take acquiring 17 long term rental units to cover your $5,000 salary. But in reality it will take more, because once you quit your day job you become responsible for your own health insurance costs (unless covered by someone else)... so probably add $1,000/month for that as well, not to mention things like paying yourself a salary (which the IRS requires) if you are running your rentals under a corporate structure - which then necessitates employment taxes, etc. So let's call it $6,500/month to replace your salary, and at $300/month/rental that equals 22 rentals. That's a big 'Lift' to accomplish!

7 years ago we had the advantage that real estate was a lot cheaper per square foot than it is today.  To give you an idea of our situation, we paid on average $78/square foot for the properties we purchased in central Florida.  Today those same properties are worth / sell for $200/square foot... so about triple.  I could not do what I did 7 years ago, today.  In addition, interest rates were in the 3-5% range then, and today they are more in the 6-7% range - which while it doesn't sound significantly different - it is.  

So just to try to extrapolate what it would take to do what you are asking - let's say you financed 80% of each house with a loan, and had to come up with 20% down to buy each investment property.  If we picked a house value of $150,000 - which is probably low for today's average across much of the country - you are talking about needing $37,500 per house to make $300/month.  So at 17 units that is $637,500 in down payments.  At 22 units its $825,000.  

If you went the short term rental route there are a lot of other assumptions that have to come into play... like occupancy rates per month, and furnishing the units, and city/county restrictions in certain areas just to name a few.  But most would agree that STRs are quite a bit more profitable than LTRs.  So each of your STRs netted $600 per month just to pick a ballpark figure, your numbers would be cut to 1/2 the LTR rates if all went right as far as acquisition costs and the number of rentals you would need.  But, successful short term rentals are harder to come by because they often rely on location, and uniqueness (be it features of the house, or proximity to an attraction, etc - which can drive up the purchase prices.)

As for us, we started at age 47 as a way to retire 'early' (if you call 47 early!), and in our first year bought 12 rentals, followed by 10 the next year and 9 the next year.  At 20 units, we were able to quit our corporate jobs and manage our rentals full time.  Today we self-manage 37 rentals.

Speaking of management - realize that if you don't self manage your units- about 1/3 of your profit will end up going to your property management company (based on a rental rate of $1,000/month and $300 net profit).  This can be a significant drag on your numbers.  I would tell you that self-managing is really pretty easy.  We self managed our units until we quit our jobs while working those 2 corporate jobs.  There isn't nearly as many issues as you would think on a daily basis, and most issues can be resolved with a phone call at lunch, etc.  

One thing to note is that it does get easier the more units you acquire.  Partly because you become more experienced, but also because the $300/unit/month starts to add up quicker to acquiring the next unit.  For instance at 4 units, that is $1,200/month, or $14,400/year extra you are taking in.

The thing I would suggest to you is that real estate investing is more of a long term game for most people.  You are wanting a compressed timeline (12-18 months).  If you have the resources it can be done.  If you don't, it will stretch your timeline... but the key is TO START. One thing most people miss is something I already mentioned in passing... which is Appreciation.  So each of the units we own has at least doubled and in some instances tripled in value in 7 years.  That is crazy appreciation, and I would tell you not to expect that... but think about it this way... You spend $37,500 to buy a $150,000 property and 7 years later let's just say it's worth $300,000 (double).  If you sold that unit for the $300,000, you effectively made $150,000 off your $37,500 investment after subtracting off your purchase price (and that is neglecting mortgage pay down, and tax benefits, etc).  That's a 400% increase in 7 years!  You don't pocket all of that due to capital gains, but appreciation is actually the biggest perk of real estate - not the cash-flow.  You WANT the cash flow, but it isn't anywhere close to the appreciation gain you will likely make!

What got omitted above is that other things increase as well over time.  With big appreciation we were able to sell a few units which we used to pay off other units with the highest interest rates we had.  This in turn super-charged the free and clear units because all the principle and interest moved into the profit column once we paid them off.  So instead of making $300/unit/month, those units started making $700-800/month!  Our average dollars per door across our entire portfolio is now over $700/month.   So again - things sort of snow-ball the longer you are in the industry. 

If you have the resources you could make a big difference in the sort term... but even if you don't, real estate will reward you to what ever capacity you can invest in it! 

I hope some of the insights helped!  The key is to start!

All the best

Randy