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All Forum Posts by: Joe Villeneuve

Joe Villeneuve has started 0 posts and replied 12915 times.

Post: When to sell a bad rental

Joe Villeneuve
#5 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Plymouth, MI
  • Posts 13,460
  • Votes 19,534
Quote from @Marco Anemone:

@Joe Villeneuve. Nuggets of gold in every post. I really enjoy your insight Joe.

I try.  Not everyone agrees with everything I say, but I'd be worried if they did.  Then I would just be taking the easy/safe way.  That's not me.

Post: When to sell a bad rental

Joe Villeneuve
#5 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Plymouth, MI
  • Posts 13,460
  • Votes 19,534
Quote from @Tim Bee:
Quote from @Joe Villeneuve:
Quote from @Tim Bee:
Quote from @Joe Villeneuve:

Why would you refi if you can't rent it.Sell it now.  You're losing money from lack of income, but you're losing more money because it's paid off.


I used to do re-fi's and get loans early on when rates were low. ROI was great then. I understand dead money but with high interest rates and putting minimal money down or re-fying leaving 80% LTV the margins on SFR's is extremely tight. Can you give me an example of a deal you've done in the last year so I can compare your numbers to the markets I am looking at?

Thanks!

My numbers don't matter.  They're great, but they shouldn't matter to you.  This isn't a contest where you compare your numbers to someone else's because no two investors have the same financial goals, and plans to get there.  One person's junk, is another person's antique.  Each step my cash took along the path of my plan was established based on how (strategy used), where (market invested in), and when (cash needed to move onto the next deal (the plan).
Each step required a specific amount of added cash exiting the deal as required by the next step, so I did deals that may have a cash profit that someone else wouldn't have done because they were looking at a disconnected result.  I was looking at a specific cash result.
With that in mind I never accepted a bad deal (negative CF) because it served no purpose, and only forced a step backwards.  If I walked into a deal, and for any reason (i.e. CAPEX) that caused a NCF, I dumped that property ASAP, took the cash I could get out of it, and moved it forward to a deal where I was making a profit.  Sitting around waiting for a bad deal to somehow turn into a good one is stupid (sorry).  Any negative money has to be recovered first, and you're not going to do it in a bad deal.  So get your cash out and put into a good one, where that deal can recover the lost money and make more.
You wouldn't keep putting chips into a bad hand in Poker, you'd fold.  At least I hope you would.

 I was asking about a specific example not to be competitive but because that's how I learn.  Didn't mean for it to come off as being competitive.  Thank you though

Competitive might have been a poor choice of words at my end. Ignore that part of my answer but the rest serves as an explanation of what I did. If you would like to discuss this further just PM me

Post: When to sell a bad rental

Joe Villeneuve
#5 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Plymouth, MI
  • Posts 13,460
  • Votes 19,534
Quote from @Tim Bee:
Quote from @Joe Villeneuve:

Why would you refi if you can't rent it.Sell it now.  You're losing money from lack of income, but you're losing more money because it's paid off.


I used to do re-fi's and get loans early on when rates were low. ROI was great then. I understand dead money but with high interest rates and putting minimal money down or re-fying leaving 80% LTV the margins on SFR's is extremely tight. Can you give me an example of a deal you've done in the last year so I can compare your numbers to the markets I am looking at?

Thanks!

My numbers don't matter.  They're great, but they shouldn't matter to you.  This isn't a contest where you compare your numbers to someone else's because no two investors have the same financial goals, and plans to get there.  One person's junk, is another person's antique.  Each step my cash took along the path of my plan was established based on how (strategy used), where (market invested in), and when (cash needed to move onto the next deal (the plan).
Each step required a specific amount of added cash exiting the deal as required by the next step, so I did deals that may have a cash profit that someone else wouldn't have done because they were looking at a disconnected result.  I was looking at a specific cash result.
With that in mind I never accepted a bad deal (negative CF) because it served no purpose, and only forced a step backwards.  If I walked into a deal, and for any reason (i.e. CAPEX) that caused a NCF, I dumped that property ASAP, took the cash I could get out of it, and moved it forward to a deal where I was making a profit.  Sitting around waiting for a bad deal to somehow turn into a good one is stupid (sorry).  Any negative money has to be recovered first, and you're not going to do it in a bad deal.  So get your cash out and put into a good one, where that deal can recover the lost money and make more.
You wouldn't keep putting chips into a bad hand in Poker, you'd fold.  At least I hope you would.

Post: Gross vs net income: how are these numbers?

Joe Villeneuve
#5 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Plymouth, MI
  • Posts 13,460
  • Votes 19,534
Quote from @Don G.:
Quote from @Joe Villeneuve:
Quote from @Don G.:

Eight total doors in Indiana. Gross annual rental income is $88,140. After insurance, tax, mortgage, and pm fees, net income is $40,057. 
$24,540 annual in annual interest to the bank. That’s a lot of money to give away. 
How bad is this deal? Still learning.

How much actual cash have you put into the deal so far?  That's where you start to find your answer.

 $98,000 cash has been put into the properties (one duplex, one 5-plex, one 4 bed single family...three total properties)

Each property must stand on its own, so the numbers would need to be split accordingly.

Post: Pay off debt first or invest first

Joe Villeneuve
#5 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Plymouth, MI
  • Posts 13,460
  • Votes 19,534

Invest first.  Use the profit ONLY to pay off debt, and keep investing the principle.  this way you won't need to rebuild the principle.  If you pay off the debt first, you have to start all over again.

Post: Why Real Estate Over Stock Market?

Joe Villeneuve
#5 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Plymouth, MI
  • Posts 13,460
  • Votes 19,534
Quote from @Mark S.:

@Joe Villeneuve I realize that. Just pointing out that you can leverage your stock holdings.

Not the same thing.  Not the same advantage or impact.

Post: Gross vs net income: how are these numbers?

Joe Villeneuve
#5 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Plymouth, MI
  • Posts 13,460
  • Votes 19,534
Quote from @Don G.:

Eight total doors in Indiana. Gross annual rental income is $88,140. After insurance, tax, mortgage, and pm fees, net income is $40,057. 
$24,540 annual in annual interest to the bank. That’s a lot of money to give away. 
How bad is this deal? Still learning.

How much actual cash have you put into the deal so far?  That's where you start to find your answer.

Post: When to sell a bad rental

Joe Villeneuve
#5 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Plymouth, MI
  • Posts 13,460
  • Votes 19,534

Why would you refi if you can't rent it.Sell it now.  You're losing money from lack of income, but you're losing more money because it's paid off.

Post: Why Real Estate Over Stock Market?

Joe Villeneuve
#5 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Plymouth, MI
  • Posts 13,460
  • Votes 19,534
Quote from @Mark S.:

@Joe Villeneuve You actually can leverage in the stock market by purchasing on margin and/or selling options against your portfolio.

Not the same thing.  There's no "margin call" in REI.

Post: Why Real Estate Over Stock Market?

Joe Villeneuve
#5 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Plymouth, MI
  • Posts 13,460
  • Votes 19,534
Quote from @Kyle Fitch:

I feel like with the stock market you can at least buy something like the s&p 500 which gives you some diversification. With real estate, you have to make sure each property is functioning at full capacity or you’ll be losing money.

You can analyze properties and be pretty sure (as long as you don't rationalize bad deals into good ones) what your numbers will be.  The stock market rises and drops daily (hourly).  RE is much more stable.
You can't leverage the SM, you can with RE.  That's the number one reason.  When you buy a stock worth $100k, you pay 100k.  When you take that same 100k and buy RE, you can buy $500k worth of RE value.  When that 100k value in R=the SM goes up 15%, your stock is worth 115k.  When that 500k RE value goes up only 5%, you now have 525k in value.  That 5% appreciation in RE is better than the 15% in the SM, starting with the same 100k.
There's more, but what I just wrote should be enough.