All Forum Posts by: Patrick Philip

You hire a civil engineer to design your subdivision vis a vis code/ordinances and help you get it approved by your city/county planning departments to build dwellings. Many cities have a comprehensive plan to guide their growth and development goals, and have adopted development ordinances that support that plan. Here's one:

https://library.municode.com/nc/asheville/codes/code_of_ordinances

It's all the rules that govern development, and your civil engineer should know all that's pertinent to your type of project. 

I've discovered good ones know most of what they should. Bad ones are shockingly ignorant.

@Geordy Rostad

So I applied for a few credit cards such as Discover IT, Macy's, and Sears I was declined by Sears and I haven't heard anything back from the others later today I will go to my Wells Fargo bank and open a Secure Credit Card. Someone once told me that i can buy a house with an FHA loan it will only require me to put in 3.5% -5% of the total cost as down payment is this true?

Also thank you for the advice I appreciate it!

Start by going to your county's GIS and get all the information you can about the parcel. Then research your city/county development ordinances online. Next, take your hypothetical parcel and visit your planning departments and just ask questions, you might find a person that's helpful (this may take a few visits).

Still interested? Find a civil engineer and see if one will give you the time to bend their ear and tell you what's possible. They can also ballpark costs. There's usually a job box on a build site, and in that box a set of plans by an engineer. If the development is similar to what you're interested in doing, approach the engineer on the plans.

I would also sit in on meetings - at your City Council, Planning Department, Board of Adjustments, etc. - related to subdivision projects. I've learned quite a bit just by listening to other developers push their projects through the approval process.

Like Jays said above, this is a deep pockets proposition and takes time, even on a small project. The one I'm doing - my first - has taken 2 years and two civil engineers to get through the approval process, and it's only 7 building lots. Had I not been able to self-finance the project to this point I would have been toast, carry costs on the land would have killed me before I even moved any dirt. 

Here are the estimated costs on my first project: $50k in civil engineering/permitting/etc, $300k in site work (silt fencing, lot clearing, grading, retaining walls, storm water, driveways/aprons, a city spec road, a turn-round for the fire department, sewer taps, a 325' water main & hydrant..... and more.) Land cost not included.

I should have 7 lots ready to "drop a box" early next year @ a per lot cost under par for projects in the area, a number I got by asking other builders (and real estate agents) with projects near mine. That's another resource, other local builders and developers, smaller ones in my case. Most have been really helpful, and if you ask a half dozen you start to develop a consensus on best practices.

My most important lesson so far: a referral to a good civil is invaluable. Then get a referral from your civil for your surveyor. Had I started with a better civil I believe my project would have been approved much earlier.

Developing is time and intensive. Risk is high. Be prepared to be hands on 24/7/365. I am paying for an education in development, something a developer friend said would happen @ the start of my project. "You don't know what you don't know", and had I to do it over again I would have talked to as many other developers, engineers, planners, contractors, utility contractors, graders etc. as I could before I spent my first dollar on a site plan. There's a ton of knowledge out there, and most people are happy to help someone who is just starting out. In the beginning, the more curious you are the higher your chances of success. IMO.

@Patrick Philip

Yes, that is correct. In those cases, the zoning most likely already supports the new use they are proposing. 

If you find a deal like that and you want to do your due diligence, you need to just go down to the city or county and meet with the planning department to discuss the usage and potential issues you might face. The city/county should be able to look up nearby recent subdivisions and tell you what kinds of things were required for those projects.

A subdivision project can have a lot of unknowns up front. The costs of doing all the civil engineering and bringing in utilities to fully develop the land and make it ready to build often surprises people. The planning department is the place to start though.

If your pockets aren't deep enough to lose a six figure sum just to determine that it isn't a deal then you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.  The cost in engineering fees, permitting, commissions, attorney fees, market analysis and development, utility engineering, water / septic concerns (possibly even having to build a sewage treatment plant), architectural fees.......etc... just to get to the point to determine if it's feasible is absolutely staggering.  And time consuming.  The builder I complete most of my designs for has a 384 lot subdivision they've been working on for 4 years.   They're still a year or more away from a shovel.......If they're lucky!

@Patrick Philip

Changing zoning is a big deal. Especially when you are trying to go from agricultural zoning to something like 4-8 houses per acre. That will involve major planning meetings and public hearings. Trying to approach something like this is most likely a complete waste of time and effort... unless you have carefully studied the city/county grow plan and you determine that this zoning change is one of the next logic steps within the course of that plan. If you can suggest something that makes complete sense like this, then you might have a shot at it.

One thing to keep in mind though is that often agricultural land can have major wetland issues or be in a floodplain, etc. If this is the case, the change is even more unlikely to ever be approved.