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All Forum Posts by: Stephen Barton

Stephen Barton has started 37 posts and replied 261 times.

Post: Wholesaling with Honesty?

Stephen BartonPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Indianapolis, IN
  • Posts 322
  • Votes 238

Hi @Tony Roberts. So, I have had several posts on this very topic. After completing more than 200 transactions (mostly wholesale deals) I would tell you to just be open and honest. It is amazing what happens when people realize you are just being honest but are able to provide them with solutions. I am working a deal right now where the seller answered a marketing piece I did over 3 years ago. He said yesterday when we met for the first time that something stuck in his head about me versus everyone else who was calling that I actually gave him valuable information that no one else gave him. I basically educated him on how the game really works with wholesalers/agents etc. That piece of knowledge helped him to realize that I could be trusted. He now calls me "Allstate" because he says he feels like he is in good hands. Which he is right. I am going to do everything in my power to ensure he gets a fair shake. There is just something to be said about being upfront and honest. It will get you far in this life (and in the next one-lol!). 

Post: Better Market for Out of State Investor: Phoenix or Indiana?

Stephen BartonPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Indianapolis, IN
  • Posts 322
  • Votes 238

Hi @Thomas Lo. I cannot speak for Arizona but I can say Indiana has one of the most stable markets in the whole country. From what I was told Arizona was one of the hardest hit by the last housing crash. We are seeing some amazing appreciation that ties into our market also being very stable. People are starting to figure out that Indianapolis is a great place to live, work, and invest. Don't take my word for it. Just look at the numbers of investors pouring into our great city. 

Post: Than Merrill legit or scam?

Stephen BartonPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Indianapolis, IN
  • Posts 322
  • Votes 238

Hi @Raffaello Cervera! So, Than is actually now a guru in my book. His info is totally legit. However, the price you pay for their course is absurd. You could get just as much knowledge in this business by taking the 10k to 20k that is required for their course (the last time I looked) and use that money to invest in real estate. Either by marketing or by using that money as a down payment for a loan. Seriously, in my experience the best knowledge comes from being in the trenches and doing deals.

All that being said. For those who are already doing deals and are looking to take their business to the next level a Mastermind like Than Merril or others is a good idea. I think Than's course is a little over-hyped but that was how I got started. At least, I won tickets to a weekend seminar on the radio (years ago) on my way to one of my business college classes and that is what planted a seed for my wife and I. I found their box of information on ebay for around $300 or $400 which became priceless. It is somewhat outdated now because they show you what finishes to use for flips and stuff but most of the info was still relevant. That course was $10,000 and we bought all of the materials for next to nothing. Later I found Biggerpockets and realized this was the best source I was ever going to find. Lol! And being on BP is free if you choose!

Post: Looking to make upgrades to my house

Stephen BartonPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Indianapolis, IN
  • Posts 322
  • Votes 238

Yes, compare for both methods. Also, we need to know the price point because it would help us in guiding you toward what type of finishes to use. Obviously, you would not want to put granite in a $30,000 rental. So the price point might help a little. Also, how this price point compares in your area. Like is it a high end neighborhood, B class, C class, etc. Details help. 

Post: Hello, I'm new to this site :)

Stephen BartonPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Indianapolis, IN
  • Posts 322
  • Votes 238

Welcome @Hosup Lee! You have come to the right place. There are just so many different strategies out there to pick from in the arena. Pick your flavor- lol! Good luck to you. 

Post: How did you select your CPA? Word of mouth?

Stephen BartonPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Indianapolis, IN
  • Posts 322
  • Votes 238

Hi @Connie Chan! Yes, it was word of mouth because our previous CPA knew almost nothing about real estate investing. Now, my new one Nate Busch CPA, is actually a real estate investor as well. He holds rental properties. So, to me you cannot get a better CPA than one who actually invests in real estate. Nate has saved us so much money in the last few years I cannot begin to tell you. Amazing!

Post: Insurance companies for investment properties

Stephen BartonPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Indianapolis, IN
  • Posts 322
  • Votes 238

@Asa Ifill you might be able to call my broker Man Phung with Brightway insurance. Tell him we are colleagues here on BP and that I sent you. I believe they have offices around the country. He has AMAZING prices and superior coverage. It is worth a quick phone call. 

Post: Best Price Point Buy & Hold Investing in the Indianapolis Area

Stephen BartonPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Indianapolis, IN
  • Posts 322
  • Votes 238

The access we now have to information is simply incredible. The rate at which normal everyday people are learning how to invest in real estate is increasing every day. You cannot underestimate the force that is behind biggerpockets and what we have here as a community. 99% of the time this is a positive thing. However, I feel sometimes we lose perspective when we hear about an individual doing deals in a certain part of the country and assume that we can accomplish those same results. This post is guided toward the newer investor who is possibly looking to get into the Indianapolis area market. 

I want to preface this by saying that not all investors are created equal. Some have a higher threshold when dealing with issues than others. Some want a turnkey experience but don't want to pay turnkey prices. This plays heavily into the results one can expect from buying a rental property here. It all depends on your risk tolerance. I have had several investors contact me recently declaring they would like an 8% to 10%. While that is possible it really depends on the price point you want to target. I can show you a few ways you can achieve this but only one will be a clear winner. 

1. You can look at homes priced around $75,000 to $100,000 which will rent for around $900/mo to possibly $1100/mo. 

2. This is what I call the sweet spot and it is from 125k up to about 160k. Rents here are around $1350/mo.

3. You can choose to go for a median-priced rental around northern Indianapolis, Fishers, Carmel, Noblesville, Zionsville for around 150k to 250k. On the higher end, you are looking at rents around $1900/mo. For the lower end of the spectrum, you are at around $1350/mo in rents. Neither example is going to get you rich overnight. But cap-ex and vacancy rates are going to be very low in general.

Getting to the heart of the matter: 

Option #1- Why spend more if you don't have to? You can choose option #2 because that is where you might find the higher cash on cash return. Numbers on a spreadsheet only tell you part of the picture. You have to really analyze a deal over a few years to really know how it is going to go. In option #2 you can sometimes find deals for next to nothing and fix them up to rent. However, what you don't understand is that at this price point you are going to be dealing with a certain demographic that does not do well in the long term. Feeling all warm and fuzzy because the numbers on your spreadsheet look good so it obviously must be a good deal right? Wrong, those are the investors who are typically selling their houses after a few years of realizing this is not what they had in mind. With this group, you will typically be dealing with a home that is older. More than likely it was built prior to 1978 which means you more than likely have lead-based paint. It also means all of your mechanicals are either on their way out or have to be replaced. This is a lower class of tenant which means the lower you go the more possibility for issues in my experience. 

Option #2 - This is a great place to start for an experienced investor. The type of investor who has a system in place. Who knows the area, knows they have a team of contractors at any given moment to help with a project. One that is well funded and has plenty of cash reserves on hand. At this price point, you are looking at a class of tenant that can actually afford to buy a home but they choose to rent instead. It is becoming quite common among younger and older generations who do not want to deal with the burdens of homeownership. An investor in this category will need to either be able to efficiently self manage or they have a property manager they can trust. One that can possibly cut them a break when it comes to maintenance issues or fees in general. This investor is going to have to run a tight ship. Every dollar is going to count when it comes to this category. So saving a little here or there is going to be the name of the game. Maximize profits while working to improve the chance for a lower vacancy rate. This is a product that will always sell. Most couples in this price point can afford to buy a home. So, it just makes sense to own rentals where people can actually afford them. More importantly, it makes sense to have the right rentals to attract the right tenants. You are going to see some deferred maintenance in this category which is why having a good contractor is going to mean the difference of cash flowing or not. 

Option #3 This area is the prize in my opinion. Here you are looking at $175,000 to $250,000 so it is not for the faint of heart. This investor is going to be looking for more of a longterm strategy rather than wanting the magnificent 8-10% cash on cash return. This investor is looking to at least cashflow $100 a door but long term they understand they own real estate in one of the most highly prized areas to live in. This is for an investor who wants the least headaches and the least chance for major issues in the long run. The particular demographic of tenant in this price point is going to be very stable and likely have more than enough money to buy a home at this price. This is for the stable family who wants to settle down and watch their children go to one of the best schools this state has to offer for public education. Schools tend to be a driving force and this one is no exception. Schools, value for your money, and all of the amenities that come with this area are amazing. These values are also now exploding here. Investors and homeowners are driving the values into the stratosphere. Some neighborhoods have jumped $10,000 to $20,000 in just a year's time. Will it last? Who knows for sure. What is clear there is a limited amount of land in this area. Builders cannot keep up with the demand and people can get so much more bang for their buck when buying a previously owned home. The name of the game in this category is longterm appreciation, and stability. Stability is the #1 asset for this area and category. This is what drives so many to this area. No investment can be considered safe but if there is one that could come pretty close this would be about as good as it gets for being "safe" in my opinion. 

Wrap it up: In short, every investor has to decide what fits them best. I can argue against any of these areas I have mentioned in the opposite way and tell you not to invest in any of them. (Not sure why I would but I am sure someone can or will) What is important is to have the right team in place. You are not going to do real estate investing totally on your own. You are going to need contacts, people you can depend on. I just hear investors who come to me saying they want this or that % cash on cash return. I can find ridiculously high returns at really low price points too! But I would not want to even drive through those areas let alone think about owning a home there. You have to recognize that results will vary. Do you want "safer" investments or do you want massive cashflow investments (that come with potential pitfalls)? You can have your cake and eat it too. You just need to know what it is exactly that you want. From there it is easy!

A final word of caution: Be very wary of turnkey outfits, agents, wholesalers, or investors who are claiming a certain percentage of return. Maybe they will say it is a 10% to 14% return. You have to consider the hidden factors like crime, poverty, deferred maintenance, etc.  In the end, you have to decide what fits best for you. 

Post: Looking to make upgrades to my house

Stephen BartonPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Indianapolis, IN
  • Posts 322
  • Votes 238

Hi @James Carter. I think it would help if we knew what price point you were looking at. In my area once you get to a certain price point what looks good to sell vs. what is perfect for a renter is the exact same product. In fact, smart investors are doing rehabs to a home and then putting them both up for sale and up for rent at the same time. Then, whatever one has an offer first that is what they do with it. So, they either rent it if a renter comes forward or they sell it outright to a qualified buyer. 

Personally, I would start with a kitchen. That is the most bang for your buck return. You can try to save money by simply painting kitchen cabinets if they are in good shape. You can get creative! Spend the right amount of money in the right places. Also, finding the right contractors to do the work is essential. Anyone can install a granite countertop but finding someone who is good but can do it for a fraction of the price is essential for what we do as investors. If you are doing the work yourself then you have even more power. You are in control at that point. You can do this! 

Post: Successful House Hack but What Now?

Stephen BartonPosted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Indianapolis, IN
  • Posts 322
  • Votes 238

@Tatiana Raid I would highly suggest finding wholesalers or agents who are investors around you. Go to meetups and meet the deal makers in your area. That is where my wife and I found our current live-in flip. Deals are out there. You will just never see them on the market that often. I know, because I have done almost over 150 off market deals that never saw an MLS listing. They were all done through title companies and were just buyer to seller. No agents or anyone in between.

Even better- I would consider doing a marketing campaign for your next deal. Knock on some doors or send letters to the properties you might want to buy. Look for deferred maintenance on them. Look for tall weeds etc. Then you need to look up the tax records and see who owns them. You can do anything you put your mind to. Great job on your investing so far!