All Forum Posts by: Burt L.

With this particular surveying company, they saw the error of their ways and provided the corrected survey with the correct lot numbers and easements in the proper places.

This is a different surveying company than in my other recent post. 

They are, however, refusing to bid on any other work I have offered them as I pointed out some issues. I suspect they have a very small "complaints in-box", so to speak. I certainly appreciate the inputs I received from the BP community, above! 

I hired a surveyor to do what is called a Zone Lot Amendment in Denver, CO. It allows two parcels to be separated and sold separately and is required in this situation. I work with a handful of different surveyors here and there is also a large spread in pricing between them. 

The surveyor completed the first version and it was submitted to the Zoning Department and came back with some required changes, as is common when working with Denver Zoning. I have to resubmit with the required changes and the surveyor has informed me that a colleague filed a complaint against him with the State Board and he is on probation until it is cleared up and he can't sign-off on surveying work until then. 

I have deadlines to meet and loan carrying costs, etc until the parcels are sold and can't sell either until this is completed and the new legal descriptions are finalized by the city. 

It can take months to get to the front of a surveyors schedule here as they are swamped, not to mention the additonal costs. Can another surveyor review this surveyors work and not have to repeat it and the costs entirely? Perhaps there are other suggestions. 

I"m somewhat lost on what to do in this scenario. Thank you. 

I hired a licensed Colorado surveying company to complete two Improvement Survey Plats two separate, adjacent fourplex's located in Evergreen CO. It should be mentioned that Improvement Survey Plats are often confused with Improvement Locations Certificates, which only display a structures location on a lot. The first costs thousands each, and the seconds costs hundreds each. The suveying company is located in Metro Denver but has contracts with people who do the survey work in the mountains/foothills outside Denver. 

I"m seeking to rezone the lots as they are pre-existing, prior to the first zoning codes, which later came in and only granted duplex zoning, so these are legal, non-conforming but can't be converted to separate up/down "condo" sales as lenders won't loan if a structure can't be rebuilt after a catastrophic loss unless its zoned correctly as their collateral is compromised and that is the case in the county where these are located. 

The surveyors first completed surveys had incorrect lot numbers on 6 lots and so I asked that they be corrected. They were corrected and now its seen that an easement is shown on the wrong lot and about 75 ft away from where it should be. Further, its now seen that 3 of the corrected lots were replatted as part of splitting a duplex and have different current legal descriptions than the original lot numbering and are still incorrect. 

The surveys have to be presented first at the required Neighbohood meeting on the Rezoning, then to the Planning & Zoning Departments, and finally to the County Commissioners, who have the final decision on whether to allow the rezoning from duplex to fourplex on the pre-existing fourplex's. 

I first paid 50% of the total cost. I didn't want to pay more before the surveys were complete and accurate but paid another 25%, at their insistence, to have the first revisions done. Now the surveying company says they won't consider the second revision until its 100% paid, and if I don't pay the final 25%  this week that they will send me to "Collections" and "have the survey cancelled". I"m told that if it goes to collections that they can have no more involvement with it, and then I'll have to deal with the Collection Agency solely. It sounds like they had already recorded the first, incorrect version and will record a retraction of sorts if the demand is not met. 

If I make the final 25% payment I'll have no leverage to get the job completed and confiden I'll soon find what their fee is to make another revision, and it will go to the back of their workload again. 

Submitting inaccurate surveys to the different governmental agencies isn't wise, and I have a sense of being held hostage on the matter. The actual surveyor who did the work asked those above him if he should prepare the revisions and I provide the position those above him are taking against me. 

What can I do in this seemingly distorted situation? Having the lot numbers and easement displayed incorrectly on the final work product is of little value to me. 

I appreciate your replies made on this matter. It's certainly interesting to know that the thickness of glass is apparently the most important part of a quiter window and then air gaps are adjusted. 

I did contact Window World and they quote 10-15 weeks to recieve the windows. I called on Wednesday and they made me an appointment to for the following Monday to speak with a salesman by phone. I recently purchased the property and will have this first unit ready to rent in about 2 weeks. 

If I can make a low-dollar window quieter I think I'm better off as the window is 8 ft wide by 5 ft tall and only two feet off the ground and prone to breakage. I can get another off the shelf for$278 at H/D. I've seen videos where people put an additional piece of plexiglass at the rear of the window opening, attach a plastic edge to the plexiglass and attach with "pivot screws" and it creates an additional air-space and is removable for cleaning. 

Still working on ideas on it. If someone were to make windows to order in a more time-sensitive manner I think they could do a great business. Not sure I want to be tied to slow lead times for rental units along a busy street that are prone to breakage by how low they sit, etc. Thank you for the suggestions. 

I should mention the current low-dollar large front window has a hole about the size of a dime in the outer pane and the inner pane is intact. So not an entirely fair test, but no one will want to live with the sound of each car passing by. 

 I need to get new windows for a property on a busier street that you can each car "whoosh" by on the front side of the house and will make it difficult for showings and this is a huge window at 8 ft wide by 5 ft tall. 

In looking through the forums, I saw a couple of recommendations for Milgard, that Lowes carries. There is also a general review at Lowes from a consumer that said they can no longer hear the bus go by after buying a MIlgard, but didn't specify which line of their windows. I'm also told having a triple pane is quieter than a double pane. Nobody in town carries this particular size that I"ve been able to locate and all want to custom order with large lead times and high prices. 

If I order the MIlgard Style Line in a double-pane from Lowes online, this largest window of the group is $503 and is an available size  and takes approx 3 weeks. When I call and have an associate from Lowes put the exact same window in an order through their software, the price increases to over $900. If I step up to the Milgard Tuscany which is a triple pane, the price rises to $1100 for just that window. 

I haven't found anyone in the Denver area that stocks this size but they all seem want to want to custom order it at large markups over what I can order myself from Lowes. I may not be giving the current window a "fair shake" as I'm sure its a low end Pella or JW from Home Depot and does have a break in it, but having a loud living room makes the property undesirable. 

I wonder what people can suggest to quiet down noise on a busy street through the window? Not sure I want to step up to an $1100 window on just the largest on the order, If I don't have to. 

Separately, I had a local, large rental property owner tell me that he sometimes splits large windows into two windows, in this case that would be 48' wide by 60: tall, adjusted for the 1/2" on each end. Probably hard to find 48 wide by 60" tall. 

This matter is the large, detracting item on the property and will impact any strategy utilized for the property so its important to solve.

Thank you. 

Ok, thank you - those are very good ideas. I'll so some background work about the zoning inspector and see if I can find earlier zoning cases as one can with Board of Adjustment cases. Sometimes they are public information for a short period of time, and then removed as I've seen in other nearby counties. It will probably help me learn to speak some of their specialized "language" as well. 

Looks like I double posted- got a message that the first post didn't go through but apparently it did. Please disregard the other duplicate posting. 

I posted in a related thread about condo conversions of two legal, non-conforming 4-plex's in Colorado. They are next to each other with separate legal descriptions.  I retained a land use attorney who researched the zoning and development codes and there is nothing that prevents doing the condo conversion - to increase total market value. 

The practical problem is that the zoning code has a provision that should more than 50% of a structure's value be destroyed, it cannot be built back to 4 units, but only as 2 as the structures were built before the zoning code went in, and it was later zoned as duplex. Due only to this one provision, lenders won't lend as their collateral in rebuilding is compromised. Selling for cash only, or owner-financing would be much more difficult. 

The land-use attorney then offered to research the variance procedure rules to see if a variance could be obtained to allow rebuilding of the four units in case of over-50% damage and to have the county provide a letter for lenders to that effect.  Its questionable that I have legal standing to request a variance as there has been no damage yet, and it may be in doing so that I am asking to increase the non-conformity and so the variance request may not be admitted, to be followed by hearings on whether to approve or not. 

A more direct, faster, and less costly approach would be to ask the Senior Zoning Inspector if I could obtain a letter that says it could be rebuilt in the over-50% scenario, which would then satisfy lenders- as lenders have already confirmed.  

I would need to have something related to the properties to offer the Zoning Inspector, who has been with the department for 30 years and certainly would know the properties. They have been 4-plex's for 70+ years (built in 1948) and I've had them 4.5 years. Upon looking up the property, a zoning staff member told me that the properties "have had their share of complaints" over time and changing from rented apartments to separate ownership would seem to upgrade the type of resident to those with an ownership interest who would be more conscientious about neighbors, etc. This may be in the counties' better interest than continuing as apartment buildings as otherwise that will continue to be the highest and best use. 

The separate sales would also be at the pricing low-end and provide affordable housing an affordable housing option for buyers. The structures were also built before set-back rules were in place and are close to the road without paved parking surfaces. Don't know that I would volunteer paving/concrete pads, but if he required it, that would still work. Wouldn't want to offer a "what would be necessary" comment as the requirements could be quite costly...

I had thought that my approaching the Zoning Inspector would be better than having an attorney doing so, as I suspect most people "suck up tight" when approached by an attorney rather than simply having a conversation with the property owner; he has probably encountered many attorneys in his capacity, though.  I have an email from the same Senior Zoning Inspector from his confirmation last month that the properties were fully permitted and are legal, non-conforming. But I also suspect that a conversation would be more informal and make more progress than by email. 

Am I missing something in how to best approach the zoning inspector or blowing past something else important altogether? This would be a high-stakes conversation, if in fact this is the way to proceed. Its all a big "paper chase" about securing the lenders collateral. The zoning inspector can't prevent a legal separation to condos, but effectively prevents lending.  I appreciate any input. 

I posted in a related thread about condo conversions of two legal, non-conforming 4-plex's in Colorado. They are next to each other with separate legal descriptions.  I retained a land use attorney who researched the zoning and development codes and there is nothing that prevents doing the condo conversion - to increase total market value. 

The practical problem is that the zoning code has a provision that should more than 50% of a structure's value be destroyed, it cannot be built back to 4 units, but only as 2 as the structures were built before the zoning code went in, and it was later zoned as duplex. Due only to this one provision, lenders won't lend as their collateral in rebuilding is compromised. Selling for cash only, or owner-financing would be much more difficult. 

The land-use attorney then offered to research the variance procedure rules to see if a variance could be obtained to allow rebuilding of the four units in case of over-50% damage and to have the county provide a letter for lenders to that effect.  Its questionable that I have legal standing to request a variance as there has been no damage yet, and it may be in doing so that I am asking to increase the non-conformity and so the variance request may not be admitted, to be followed by hearings on whether to approve or not. 

A more direct, faster, and less costly approach would be to ask the Senior Zoning Inspector if I could obtain a letter that says it could be rebuilt in the over-50% scenario, which would then satisfy lenders- as lenders have already confirmed.  

I would need to have something related to the properties to offer the Zoning Inspector, who has been with the department for 30 years and certainly would know the properties. They have been 4-plex's for 70+ years (built in 1948) and I've had them 4.5 years. Upon looking up the property, a zoning staff member told me that the properties "have had their share of complaints" over time and changing from rented apartments to separate ownership would seem to upgrade the type of resident to those with an ownership interest who would be more conscientious about neighbors, etc. This may be in the counties' better interest than continuing as apartment buildings as otherwise that will continue to be the highest and best use. 

The separate sales would also be at the pricing low-end and provide affordable housing an affordable housing option for buyers. The structures were also built before set-back rules were in place and are close to the road without paved parking surfaces. Don't know that I would volunteer paving/concrete pads, but if he required it, that would still work. Wouldn't want to offer a "what would be necessary" comment as the requirements could be quite costly...

I had thought that my approaching the Zoning Inspector would be better than having an attorney doing so, as I suspect most people "suck up tight" when approached by an attorney rather than simply having a conversation with the property owner; he has probably encountered many attorneys in his capacity, though.  I have an email from the same Senior Zoning Inspector from his confirmation last month that the properties were fully permitted and are legal, non-conforming. But I also suspect that a conversation would be more informal and make more progress than by email. 

Am I missing something in how to best approach the zoning inspector or blowing past something else important altogether? This would be a high-stakes conversation, if in fact this is the way to proceed. Its all a big "paper chase" about securing the lenders collateral. The zoning inspector can't prevent a legal separation to condos, but effectively prevents lending.  I appreciate any input.