Skip to content
×
Pro Members Get
Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
ANNUAL Save 16%
$32.50 /mo
$390 billed annualy
MONTHLY
$39 /mo
billed monthly
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
×
Try Pro Features for Free
Start your 7 day free trial. Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties.
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: William Manning

William Manning has started 4 posts and replied 27 times.

Post: How To: Cash out 1-4 unit Property

William Manning
Posted
  • Investor
  • North Augusta SC
  • Posts 30
  • Votes 18
Quote from @Andrew Postell:

@William Manning oh, and usually the lender does not sign the mortgage note.  Usually it's just the borrower. 

Thank you again. 

Post: How To: Cash out 1-4 unit Property

William Manning
Posted
  • Investor
  • North Augusta SC
  • Posts 30
  • Votes 18
Quote from @Antoinette Munroe:

@Andrew Postell

On the mortgage note, Will I sign on behalf of my LLC or do I need to have a member or registered agent in place to sign on the LLC's behalf so that my name is not on both ends of the transaction? Worried this might look sketchy to a lender.

 @Andrew Postell if this has already been answered, then my apologies.

Post: How To: Cash out 1-4 unit Property

William Manning
Posted
  • Investor
  • North Augusta SC
  • Posts 30
  • Votes 18
Quote from @Andrew Postell:

Receiving a cash out loan on an investment property can be a very confusing item. This post is designed to bring some clarity to taking cash out of a property with a conventional loan and help you navigate the sometimes-challenging cash out rules for properties. Admittedly, this post will probably be for the mid-level to expert level investor. There could be some important items in here if you are just starting out but it might get confusing in a hurry. If you have any questions, then please reach out. Lots of people on this forum can answer questions and many are very helpful individuals.

We will cover:

  1. The conventional rules for a cash out loan
  2. Buying a home with cash
  3. How to properly structure buying a property with cash

1.  The Conventional Rules For a Cash Out Loan

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are the Government Agencies that sponsor conventional lending. Most banks will have these loans as an option. There are other loan types as well but for brevity we will limit this post to the “Conventional” lending (Fannie/Freddie).

  • Conventional Loans limit your cash out on an investment property to 75% of the “After Repair Value” on a Single-Family home (70% on a 2-4 unit home). This is also the same percentage that you need for a non-cash out refinance (more on why that is important later).
  • If you purchased the investment property with a loan, then conventional loans will require you to wait 6 month to take cash out.
    • This rule does not apply if you purchased the home with CASH (more on that in section 2).

Let’s explore some examples here:

  • If you purchased a property with a 15% down conventional loan (85% loan to value) and you wanted to get cash out, you wouldn’t be able to do so since the cash out limit is 75% of the “Loan to Value”. The MAXIMUM cash out you can receive is 75% of the value of the property.
  • If you purchased a property with a loan, but did the rehab on with your own cash, then you would need to wait 6 months to get that cash back. Keep in mind you could only receive 75% back of the After Repair Value.  
    • So if you bought a home with a loan of $50k, it required $30k in renovations, and it appraised for $100k after the repair work was complete then….
      • You would refinance the $50k loan, receive back $25k in cash…since $75k would be 75% of the After Repair Value.

2.  Buying a home with Cash

Buying a home with cash has become increasingly popular for many investors but often an investor will be caught with the restrictions to cash out loans if they need to get their money back. There is a plan to avoid this entire section (In section 3) but it is important for us to know about these restrictions. If an investor is buying with cash and flipping they get their money back when they sell the property. But if they are seeking to hold a property for any length of time and want their cash investment back there are some important rules to understand with conventional loan:

  • If you buy a property with cash (or with a HELOC) you can receive a cash out loan on Day 1.
    • There is not a 6 month waiting period with receiving a cash out loan if you purchased a home with cash or with a HELOC
    • BUT you will be limited to the amount of….
      • Your purchase price + closing costs (costs when you purchased the home)
      • OR
      • 75% of the “After Repair Value”…

WHICHEVER IS THE LOWER AMOUNT (super important)

These rules are important to understand so here are two examples:

  • Example 1: If you purchased a home with $50k of cash, and put $30k of renovations into the loan, and the home was worth $100k. 75% is $75k and $50k is your purchase price. So you could only receive $50k in your first 6 months of ownership since the LOWER amount is your purchase price. After 6 months you could receive the full 75% of the ARV.
  • Example 2: If you purchased a home with $80k of cash, put $5k into the home, and the home was worth $100k. 75% would be $75k and your purchase price is $80k…so the lower amount is $75k.

When buying a home with cash you can absolutely get cash back right away but you will be limited to the lower of those two amounts.

3.  HOW TO PROPERLY STRUCTURE BUYING A HOME WITH CASH

With these rules, you can see how it can be confusing to get conventional lending when buying a home with cash but there is absolutely a proper method to structuring your deals when buying cash. Here’s the secret:

  • Create an LLC and have the LLC lend you a mortgage on the property you are receiving.

The reason why this works is because instead of you needing cash or receiving a cash out loan, we are now refinancing a loan – your loan. There no reason to wait any time or have any “whichever is lower” rule come into play. We are just refinancing a loan.

Here’s how it works:

  • You create an LLC
  • You buy a home
  • Your LLC gives you a loan for the home
  • You file the deed for that loan at the county courthouse
  • You use the money from the LLC to buy and fix up the property
  • Once the property is completed, your conventional lender comes to refinance the loan
  • Your conventional lender runs title and sees there is a loan.
  • Your conventional lender refinances you into a new loan, and cuts a check to your LLC…a check in the amount of 75% of the value.

Please don't confuse this 75% with a "cash out" amount. The non-cash out LTV on a refinance is also 75%. We are refinancing a mortgage. Your LLC's mortgage. Essentially your LLC has become the bank/hard money lender/etc. However you want to think about it. You get to set the interest rate (it can be 0%) and you get your investment amount back sooner.

Some things to think of:

  • To file a deed at the county courthouse is $100-$150 in cost (depending on which county)
  • And you want that note to be pretty close to 70% of the ARV for the property if you don't want to bring any money to closing. 70% will allow you to roll in your closing costs. If you want it to be at 75% just keep in mind you would need to bring your closing costs out of your pocket to complete the refinance.

This was a lot of information. Feel free to ask additional questions if you need. Thanks!

#3 scenario

Yet again, you have an solution to a problem that inexperienced new investors like me don't know how to get around and would've spent hours and hours along with thousands trying to correct.

From someone that hasn't even purchased their first investment property, thank you. That's 2 preemptive future FUBARs that you've prevented.

Post: How To: Find Real Estate Investor Friendly Lenders

William Manning
Posted
  • Investor
  • North Augusta SC
  • Posts 30
  • Votes 18

@Andrew Postell posts like this one is making me believe that I didn't screw up when I paid $390 for a subscription to this site. All the points you made probably saved me thousands in the future.

Thank you

Post: Just starting remote rental investing

William Manning
Posted
  • Investor
  • North Augusta SC
  • Posts 30
  • Votes 18
Quote from @Andrew Garcia:

Hi @William Manning, thank you for sharing your story and welcome to the community!

As Randy said, starting in your own backyard is a great place to start.

Thank you for your service. Since you were in the military, you have access to the VA home loan.

That is a great tool that investors use.

Thank you Andrew

I used a VA 30yr loan to purchase my primary residence and paid it off in 14 years, so right now I'm sitting on unused equity. To me, being risky and taking calculated risks are two different things, that's why I opened a HELOC for only 50% of my home value.

1) the limited amount curtails being reckless

2) it keeps the budget much stricter

While your VA loan advice is solid and sound (the option to reuse is nice too), I have yet to find a way to convince my wife and two teens to move into a 4-plex. In the same vein, that option is plan "Z" if there's ever a divorce.

Currently, I'm studying/researching/reading and basically going through every blog/forum/video and taking notes. Literally. Handwritten physical notes. When I can, I'll print a webpage (for educational purposes only), put that in a binder. A homemade how to and suggestion bookif you will.  “Research your own experience. Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, add what is essentially your own.” - Bruce Lee   Outside of doing a task, intuitively creating the task steps helps me remember and understand the "why/when" moments.

As for pulling the trigger on a purchase, I'm looking for the right one (not the perfect one) for this area.

Analysis paralysis is a real thing. 

Post: Just starting remote rental investing

William Manning
Posted
  • Investor
  • North Augusta SC
  • Posts 30
  • Votes 18
Quote from @Randall Alan:

Start with a local cosmetic flip to get your feet wet.

All the best! 

Randy



Thank you Randy,

You hit the nail on the head with your reply. I'm currently looking in my own backyard for those reasons.

"The price of ignorance is way more than the price we would have paid to acquire knowledge."

Post: Just starting remote rental investing

William Manning
Posted
  • Investor
  • North Augusta SC
  • Posts 30
  • Votes 18

As the title says, I'm new and starting remote rental investing. I would like to not just learn the BRRRR method, but be successful at it. I will be lurking the forums looking for answers and a sense of direction for the questions that I have. Those range from LLC structures to general contractor contacts and bids.

Currently, I am debt free and own my home outright. A wife and two kids affect men differently.

The really long introduction: My life could be filed under "How the hell is this dude alive and still kinda sane". The following is just a snippet which hopeful answers that question. As with most stories, theses events are completely true with very little exaggeration.

Growing up, we lived in cheap rentals like this one 28066 Main St, Hallwood, VA 23359 and 28066 Main St, Hallwood, VA 23359. The first looks a little overgrown and the second one is missing the huge front porch but for a few years in the mid 80's they were home.

I think the first place made the biggest impact. It didn't really have a bathroom. It had a washroom. For those that are unfamiliar, its just an empty room that has a wash tub that people would sit in with a pitcher of warm water and bath yourself. No plumbing, meaning no toilet. That amenity was to be found outside. If you look up the address on google maps, you can still see it on the right side of the garage. Spiders, no lights, and the smell. So the landlord had a solution. Yeah, it was great. Install one clawfoot tub (today people only dream of these), run garden hose  under the house from the hot/cold water line in the kitchen to the tub. Drainage? Fixed! Add 1 PVC pipe and let 'er loose into the crawlspace. Easy peasy. Yet we still needed a toilet. $15 dollars later, that too was fixed. Now, before anyone jumps to conclusions, no it didn't drain under the house. The waste found it's way to the outhouse via the efforts of one 12 year old kid. So the solution was a camping porta potti, like the Thetford. Google it if you need to. It's a wonder I don't have hepatitis. 

Another fascinating feature of this particular house was that it didn't have a Siegler type oil burning heaters that I was familiar with (these usually sit in the center of the house). A kerosene heater in the living room took the chill of those VA winter mornings. So our central heating was found literally in the center of the house.

If you were hot, you either sat under the tree in the back yard, went to a friends house, explored the woods and at night you would turn on the box fan and opened a window. Now these windows weren't your typical windows. They had counter weights to keep them up, and most of the ropes that were connected to the counter weights had rotted and failed, so the windows usually had a stick or a book holding them open. First class all the way. Out of curiosity, has anyone seen really old glass? How they deform and get really thin at the top? I learned that caulk and paint will fix any gap in a window.

Speaking of unwanted airflow, my insulation education was top notch, just cover every window casing in its entirety with plastic sheeting. Not only does it stop the heat from escaping your house, but you'll be amazed at how entertaining or frightening the sounds are to kids when the wind blows.

All that luxury for $100/month. Single mom budgets have to stretch.

Growing up, these were the types of homes that I had grown accustomed to and every time I visited my grandparents, I was simply amazed how the box on the wall could light the heater and why they didn't need a stick to keep the windows open. In my mind that was easy street life, "rich" even. I guess it's all in someone's life experiences and perception.

So, let's fast forward a little bit. At 16, I was given the opportunity to live with my grandparents in Boynton Beach FL and left the Eastern Shore of VA. My grandfather was a good dad to me. He instilled a work ethic into me. A sense of pride of who I was in spite of "what/where" I was from. Cue tears. He was the son of a sharecropper. Dropped out of school in the 6th grade, due to the fact that he was partially deaf, not "slow" as perceived by the school. Climbed his way to upper middle class through sheers hard work and will power. A wife and four kids affect men differently. Some choose to maintain. A special few thrive. This man thrived. Started a small business in gas station maintenance and for a few years he was solidly in upper middle class. Not too shabby for a man that people thought wouldn't amount to much more than a charity case. Though life has a way to test your resolve. And this man was tested. His success was was the beginning of his downfall. He found that he couldn't price himself out of work and he couldn't hire and train people fast enough. That stress, plus trying have a home life comes at a cost. The breaking point came when he had to take care of his parents, whose mental and physical health was deteriorating. At one he had three homes in the same neighborhood. Primary was his own, the second was the one he bought his parents, and the third was the one he moved everyone in when dementia tore through his parents souls. I guess a nervous breakdown is life's way of saying you should blow out one end of the candle. He sold his business, sold two of the homes for barely what he paid (one of which put him on a "hit list" because of racism), put his parents into a retirement home, and went to work for his competition, for which he was paid well, but not that well. After his parents passed, and dealing with the typical drama, he went on vacation to Florida. Funny thing, that well deserved vacation was cut short two days into it because he was given an offer to work for a contractor in South Florida that he couldn't refuse. Some people think others have all the luck in the world while others know that a lot of luck is actually blood/sweat/tears. Yep, a real life Jed Clampett moment. "Pack the kids maw, there's money in them thar Florida beaches". During these good times, he learned to SCUBA dive, which he missed more and more in his later life, and even helped teach classes. On top of that, the "slow" kid in school went to flight school. The instructor was courteous enough to give the written part of exams orally and made a cheat sheet for filling out flight plans. So far so good, right? I guess a herniated disk is life's way of saying one man shouldn't try to live three lifetimes. I guess his response was "I ain't done, watch". Investment property? Check. Buy, sell the timber and add a hog farm. Time to flip. Buy a small engine repair shop. Build it with work ethic and hiring someone better than you are in mechanicing doesn't hurt. Sell that enterprise. Travel a bit in an Airstream and fish Florida lakes. Buy some raw land, build a house, sit awhile and sell that too. Now retire to Florida for good? Kinda. Drive from Boynton Beach FL to Pocomoke MD and grab your daughters son before he turns into a punk and drive back, in one shot (google map it, one way 15-16 hour drive). Teach that little snot the raw skills that got you through life and hope for the best when he moves out.

Since then I've:

eaten out of dumpsters

been in the Marines

been homeless

walked 8 miles to wash dishes

learned what having nothing really means

That stopped when I was given the news to expect my first child. For her entire life, she's never experienced what I did. I given her that "rich" life.

A wife and two kids affect men differently.