Seller being way too emotional?

Seller being way too emotional?

Dylan ThomasPro Member
Rental Property Investor · PA · Member since 2019 · 63 posts · 57 votes

Tell me what you think. Is this seller way too emotional?

Asking price $192,000. On market for 5 days. 3 unit building.

There are 3 water heaters, ALL need to be replaced. There are also 10 windows that ALL need to be replaced. That’s why I took 12,000 off the asking price because it does need some major repairs.

She never released the LBP, SDA, or the building financials. We put in a addendum stating within 24 hours of signing the contract we need those papers or else I can back out.

Wednesday night we submitted an offer to her agent with a 24 hour offer expiration(expires Thursday at 1201am). The offer was $180,000 with 2% seller help at closing with closing in 60 days. She confirmed she received the offer at 8am Thursday morning. She chose not to respond to us until 7pm Thursday night with a counter offer of $187,000 with 2% seller help and 45 days till close.

Great! We are getting somewhere. I gave her the 45 days till close(I wanted that anyways, but wanted to make her feel like she was winning), I EVEN gave her the $187,000 asking price BUT at 2.5% seller help OR $185,000 at 2% seller help. This was at 8pm Thursday night. Remember offer expires 1201am Thursday night.

Radio silence from her. She decided to go to bed instead of getting this deal done. Her agent asked my agent to extend until Friday at noon. I said no we gave you a deadline, and this seller chose to ignore it. I’m giving her just about everything she wanted, I just want to get the deal done before others come in and start competing with me. There’s 1 empty unit that I told her must remain empty. She flipped out. I even gave her an extra 3,000 deposit, making $500 of that non refundable to show her good faith that I do understand that she wants to rent the unit but I can’t have another one of her tenants in my building. I’m already stuck with 2 of her tenants on fresh 1 year leases. Rents are 50-150$ under market.

So at 1201am Friday morning I text my agent stating that the offer has expired and I’m rescinding it. I send him a new offer to give them when she wakes up. The new offer is:

$185,000 with 2.5% seller help, 45 day closing, still need all the financials and paperwork, giving her over $6,000 for a deposit, $500 being non refundable, and she has until NOON today(Friday) to get back to me or else I’m walking.

She told her agent I was being a bully and being too aggressive. My agent said we should move on which I agree with.

But here’s my question. If you list a house, you get a legit offer (I’m not low balling her here. There’s legit 12-15 grand worth of immediate repairs needed to be done) and you choose to drag your feet, and then call me a BULLY? Come on. I wanted this deal to be done last night. I wasn’t happy about giving her 187,000 but I did to get this deal done. She chose to go to sleep knowing the offer was expiring at midnight.

I’ve got a lot of money tied up and on the line. When I send you an offer I expect you to drop everything and get the deal done because that’s what I’m doing as well. It pisses me off that you would decide to go to bed. So look I wasn’t happy going to 187, but I did, you pissed me off so you lost money by choosing to sleep. And now I’m a Bully?

No. I’m a business man. When I give you an offer I mean it. I gave you a legit, solid offer. I could have gave you one at 160,000 or something really low. But I didn’t want to insult you and I wanted the deal done ASAP.

Do you guys think I was being too aggressive? Or being a bully? Or is this old lady out of her mind? I mean seriously it’s business. Get the deal done.

Thanks for reading. Look forward to your thoughts.

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Mike CumbieBusiness Member
REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
6y

From what I read you were being quite aggressive. You two got into a "split hairs" over $1000 on a $187,000 offer. (2% or 2.5%). Coming to an agreement is one piece, you also have to decide if you want to go through a whole transaction with this person. It sounds like you two were not a good fit. Sellers (and buyers) also have other things going on. She could be working 7 deals each over $20 mil and yours just wasn't her "most important thing". She could have a relative in the hospital she was spending all night with and trying to work your deal and fight over a grand just wasn't in her timeline. 

I have had several clients (and myself) have walked from offers that were very pushy. I have rejected offers just because I know what that agent is going to turn this deal into down the road. Saying "No, I gave her a deadline and here is a new offer when she wakes up" (Over .005%) would tell me as a seller that you want to drive this whole deal, the very next issue we find is going to blow up and turn into a nightmare. 

Not saying that's the case, but it's how it reads to me. Good luck on your next one!

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  • Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    If it’s a good property, walking for $2k difference sure does seem silly to me.

    Don’t get into a measuring contest, if you compete long enough there’s always someone with greater length and girth.

  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    I read as much as I could stomach, but the thing that sticks with me is that you are asking a seller for 2-2.5% assistance at closing and then also putting very strict deadlines on her? Everyone has told you that it's you being way too emotional and then you respond by saying you are just a business person. So are we. I do everything exactly the opposite of how you handled this. It's been on the market five days, why does she care? I don't know your market, but a 3-family for under 200k, 5 days on the market is going to get plenty more action and all you are doing by being so aggressive is telling her that. You have to be willing to walk away and not care. I put strict deadlines on deals also, but I don't hound them. I just walk away and wait for them to call. If they don't, no big deal. You will develop a very bad reputation with these pressure tactics, not only with sellers, but with agents who help you and on the other side.

  • Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Dylan Thomas

    “I’m not as much a relationship person as a get it done at all costs person” will certainly do you no favours in the long term. My recommendation would be focus more on end game,... in which case drilling matches and gasoline on the bridge while you dance across it laughing the evil villain laugh and waiving a middle finger may not be the best approach. You’ll find even in larger markets it’s a small world. Reputations stick.

  • Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    How long has the property been on the market?

    When I did my first deal, we had some unforeseen events and were out of contract up till 36 hours till closing. The seller was set to close on her dream house pending this sale so I used it as leverage to maximize my out look.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Clemente, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 14 votes
    6y

    @Dylan Thomas

    Your initial offer and deadline was fine. But in my opinion each counter offer should reset the deadline.

    If the deadline has passed without a response, it’s the same as a no. In which case if she came back and tried to accept the offer after the deadline, just simply say, sorry that offer was off the table at 12:01. Then you can present her with the current offer.

  • Eastern Michigan · Member since 2018 · 83 posts · 144 votes
    6y

    you are incredibly emotional-- this whole offer has been a rollercoaster for you. 

    You find a good deal and submit an offer before others- excitement!

    Seller is slow to respond- disappointment/frustration 

    Seller doesnt immediately jump at your counteroffer- anger!

    Deadline expires - more anger, feeling loss of control,  disappointment

    now do you think the seller is on bp ranting about some offer they received where the buyer is being pushy? No, that's unlikely. THAT kind of thing would be emotional.  

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    you are incredibly emotional-- this whole offer has been a rollercoaster for you. 

    You find a good deal and submit an offer before others- excitement!

    Seller is slow to respond- disappointment/frustration 

    Seller doesnt immediately jump at your counteroffer- anger!

    Deadline expires - more anger, feeling loss of control,  disappointment

    now do you think the seller is on bp ranting about some offer they received where the buyer is being pushy? No, that's unlikely. THAT kind of thing would be emotional.  

    Brilliant analysis!

  • Saint Joseph, MO · Member since 2018 · 401 posts · 244 votes
    6y

    @Dylan Thomas I would say perhaps a little pushy. I just closed on an 8 plex last night. We gave a full price offer, and it still took the seller seven days to respond. Of course during this, he was building 4 houses, a Dunkin Donuts, and remodeling a Taco Johns. We basically had to go the extra mile and baby the deal to get it done. I would say, you never know what people have going on. With my 8 plex deal, it was huuuuuge to me, but it was small potatoes to the seller.

  • Ian WalshBusiness Member
    Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    This kind of stuff happens all the time with sellers.  Just make lots of offers and do your best.  It's not worth getting stuck on a deal.

  • Naperville, IL · Member since 2018 · 330 posts · 357 votes
    6y

    Tiffany Roberts nailed it---I would add getting overly upset at being told you were bullying the seller.  Emotional people make you crazy?  You are the picture of rationality?  Dude,  you are kidding yourself,  but not us.  I say this gently,  and it has  almost nothing to do with real estate,  but with life,  which is pretty important:  Figure this part of yourself out.  May I suggest a book such as the following....

    Nothing's Wrong: A Man's Guide to Managing His Feelings 

    by David Kundtz 

    Peace.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 333 posts · 459 votes
    6y

    @Dylan Thomas

    Her agent needs to tell her to do business in a business like fashion and quit boo - hooing.

  • Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 325 posts · 253 votes
    6y

    What are your chances of getting this deal if more buyers gets whims of it? I think you are being very aggressive. I am all about relationship with seller. If she start feeling ill about you then even after you make her full price offer, she will choose to go with someone else who may have lower offer. Be careful how you push it. Real estate is a game of patience and relationship building. That is why I was able to buy two small multi family buildings from two different people who sold me their properties before. This was in last 30 days, both never been listed, no haggle but very friendly conversation and win-win scenario.

  • Specialist · Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Dylan Thomas these are always exciting. I wouldn't say you were being a bully by any means, just an agressive investor. If the property had only been on the market for 5 days and you get you first offer under ask, as a real estate agent you would be horrible at your job to suggest that the seller accept that offer. Especially with the contengencies and deadlines, they want the exact opposite of what you want. They want bidding wars and to be able to tell other buyers/investors that they have other offers so you can't blame them in all honesty. My question to you would be if they don't get any other offers in the next 2 weeks would you take the deal on the same terms? If so, play it cool and keep your eyes on it maybe even let them know that your offer is still on the table if they don't get any better offers. Then when they come back to you to ask if you're still interested, renege back to your intial offer and the deal is likely done on your terms. Just my $0.02

    Good luck and best wishes!

  • Reston, VA · Member since 2017 · 67 posts · 68 votes
    6y

    You acted like a child.

  • Investor · Fairport, NY · Member since 2015 · 124 posts · 74 votes
    6y

    @Dylan Thomas Agree with the sentiment already expressed, you were the emotional one in the situation and it cost you a potentially good deal.  You even wrote in the follow up post that emotional people drive you crazy, yet you are the emotional person in this scenario.  

    Someone else suggested reading "Never Split the Difference" and I second that recommendation.  You misread the negotiation and who had the leverage.  Time was not on your side, most sellers know the current market favors them and are in no hurry to jump at an offer.  The moment you created a deadline, let it pass, then set a new one you completely surrendered whatever leverage you had left.

    We have all made mistakes, at least anyone who has been at it for a while, so you are in good company.  Do your best to learn, be better, and not make the same mistake again.  Emotion isn't the enemy, just have to learn to control it.  Good luck.  
     

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ryan Proffit:

    @Dylan Thomas I would say perhaps a little pushy. I just closed on an 8 plex last night. We gave a full price offer, and it still took the seller seven days to respond. Of course during this, he was building 4 houses, a Dunkin Donuts, and remodeling a Taco Johns. We basically had to go the extra mile and baby the deal to get it done. I would say, you never know what people have going on. With my 8 plex deal, it was huuuuuge to me, but it was small potatoes to the seller.

    we just put a contract in   on a large AG prop in Oregon full price  multi millions and sellers agent said they have to wait till after church on Sunday to present the offer.. Everyone has a time line. I think its a deal we can do really well on    on  lot split side.. So will see.. we risk others coming in between yesterday when we presented our contract and Sunday.. But it is what it is..   Also WE NEVER say we are making and offer we always say we have a contract for them.  Offer implies less than asking or terms etc.. its a little nuance that has served me well over the years.. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Memphis, TN · Member since 2019 · 261 posts · 253 votes
    6y

    'Your price, my terms' or 'my price, your terms.'  


    You submitted your price and your terms AND with your strict deadline (which should have been reset every time a new counter was made, btw) along with unnecessary behavior.  The deals you get done will be long and hard-fought and likely few and far-between as well.  Everyone's in business here, but not everyone does it your way and you shouldn't expect them to.

  • Scott WolfPro Member
    Lender · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 959 votes
    6y

    @Dylan Thomas, you were definitely the emotional one in this transaction. If this woman is selling one property now, and you acted reasonably during the transaction, the next one may have come to you before it hit the market.  Very short sighted. 

    Also, getting mad over an unrealistic 24 hour time deadline is crazy to me, and personally I'd probably throw out any offer that came in with such a ridiculous deadline.  I'm working on a 10MM+ deal right now and the very seasoned buyer came in with an 8 day deadline for response.  Putting a gun to someone's head is not a good way to conduct business.

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    @Dylan Thomas ironically you are the emotional one here. You said it "pisses you off", which my friend is EMOTION. This is business. If the deal is worth doing, why can't you wait until noon the next day? Instead you would rather throw the whole deal out? Your counter offer asking for 2.5% at $187,000. That extra .5% amounts to $935. You threw out a deal over less than $1000?

    Odds are very good if you would have just said, "no problem, get back to me by noon" that she would have just accepted your counter offer. Instead you lost the deal. Even if she was emotional, your job in a negotiation is to use that to your advantage, not "bully" her. Emotional sellers want to feel like they are working with people who care about their needs.

    You sound like a hot head. I am sure she figured if you are that difficult to negotiate with, that you will be nothing but a pain all the way to closing. 

  • Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Dylan Thomas

    Your pushiness would have made me tell you to go fly a kite personally. You have no idea what’s going on in this woman’s life, or if she even needs to sell. Take a step back and let this lady figure it out.

  • Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Dylan Thomas

    Don’t take this personally, but with your attitude I would have told you to shove your deal.

    You’ve never heard that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar?

    Calm down and be nice, and hopefully people will react differently and accept your offers.

  • Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Tiffany Roberts

    I’d like to change my answer to everything that Tiffany wrote. Perfect. I have also found that with age comes wisdom and patience.

    Thus far, the OP has neither (sorry if that sounds straight up insulting). I hope after a few deals he will gain both.

  • Member since 2019 · 20 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Dylan Thomas please read Chris Voss "Never split the difference. ". Also listen to Jay Scott and his wife, about negotiating. I forget the podcast number. It's in the 300's the one were they announced their podcast show. A lot of helpful information on your question

  • Lender · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 916 posts · 647 votes
    6y

    @Dylan Thomas I can see both sides of your situation but my opinion is sometimes the best way to close a deal is giving a nominal win to the seller. Let them only oh 2 % instead of 2.5. You said you were okay with a 45 day close and offered 60. Seems like you have room to wiggle and if your numbers are correct 187 vs 180 wouldn’t make this deal a bust. I say give the seller a bit more time and room to accept or reject. If I was selling to you I’d feel pushed and would turn you down even if the offer was nominally better.

  • Lender · All 50 States · Member since 2015 · 401 posts · 250 votes
    6y

    @Dylan Thomas, it's really a very simple problem...

    There are two sides to every deal. Your perception of the seller is what got you to lose the deal. You can never lose sight of that if you want to truly be successful. We frequently buy houses at a lower price than the first and "best" offer. Taking their needs into account is critical.

    When negotiating, understand there are also two parts to the process. There are price and terms. If either part takes both, it's not a deal for the other. You tried to control both. You wanted to control the price and the terms (time line). It cost you the deal.

    I truly hope you learn from this and learn how to present and negotiate your offers better in the future. I'd love to hear about your success story.

    To your success and growth. Good luck going forward!

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