Seller being way too emotional?

56 Replies

@Dylan Thomas

"The way I see it was she got a very strong offer right off the bat (Only 4 day old listing when I submitted). We all know most of the time the first offer is the strongest."

"I just want to get the deal done before others come in and start competing with me."

You realize you're contradicting yourself here, right? This is doubletalk.

I think you got too close to this. It's happened to me.

This is more like fishing and less like hunting. You have to give them a chance to bite. You're not going to shoot them between the eyes.

You remind me of me when I have a good offer out. Every hour, I'm vaguebooking like crazy, complaining to my close friends to let off the steam. My wife can't stand being around me. But you have to let it ride out there. At the end of it, I either post "We have acquired out next investment property." OR "Swung on...and missed." All my friends know the code by now. They laugh at me. I let them, because I need it.

If it’s a good property, walking for $2k difference sure does seem silly to me.

Don’t get into a measuring contest, if you compete long enough there’s always someone with greater length and girth.

I read as much as I could stomach, but the thing that sticks with me is that you are asking a seller for 2-2.5% assistance at closing and then also putting very strict deadlines on her? Everyone has told you that it's you being way too emotional and then you respond by saying you are just a business person. So are we. I do everything exactly the opposite of how you handled this. It's been on the market five days, why does she care? I don't know your market, but a 3-family for under 200k, 5 days on the market is going to get plenty more action and all you are doing by being so aggressive is telling her that. You have to be willing to walk away and not care. I put strict deadlines on deals also, but I don't hound them. I just walk away and wait for them to call. If they don't, no big deal. You will develop a very bad reputation with these pressure tactics, not only with sellers, but with agents who help you and on the other side.

@Dylan Thomas

“I’m not as much a relationship person as a get it done at all costs person” will certainly do you no favours in the long term. My recommendation would be focus more on end game,... in which case drilling matches and gasoline on the bridge while you dance across it laughing the evil villain laugh and waiving a middle finger may not be the best approach. You’ll find even in larger markets it’s a small world. Reputations stick.

How long has the property been on the market?

When I did my first deal, we had some unforeseen events and were out of contract up till 36 hours till closing. The seller was set to close on her dream house pending this sale so I used it as leverage to maximize my out look.

@Dylan Thomas

Your initial offer and deadline was fine. But in my opinion each counter offer should reset the deadline.

If the deadline has passed without a response, it’s the same as a no. In which case if she came back and tried to accept the offer after the deadline, just simply say, sorry that offer was off the table at 12:01. Then you can present her with the current offer.

you are incredibly emotional-- this whole offer has been a rollercoaster for you. 

You find a good deal and submit an offer before others- excitement!

Seller is slow to respond- disappointment/frustration 

Seller doesnt immediately jump at your counteroffer- anger!

Deadline expires - more anger, feeling loss of control,  disappointment

now do you think the seller is on bp ranting about some offer they received where the buyer is being pushy? No, that's unlikely. THAT kind of thing would be emotional.  

Originally posted by @Tiffany Roberts :

you are incredibly emotional-- this whole offer has been a rollercoaster for you. 

You find a good deal and submit an offer before others- excitement!

Seller is slow to respond- disappointment/frustration 

Seller doesnt immediately jump at your counteroffer- anger!

Deadline expires - more anger, feeling loss of control,  disappointment

now do you think the seller is on bp ranting about some offer they received where the buyer is being pushy? No, that's unlikely. THAT kind of thing would be emotional.  

Brilliant analysis!

 

@Dylan Thomas I would say perhaps a little pushy. I just closed on an 8 plex last night. We gave a full price offer, and it still took the seller seven days to respond. Of course during this, he was building 4 houses, a Dunkin Donuts, and remodeling a Taco Johns. We basically had to go the extra mile and baby the deal to get it done. I would say, you never know what people have going on. With my 8 plex deal, it was huuuuuge to me, but it was small potatoes to the seller.

Tiffany Roberts nailed it---I would add getting overly upset at being told you were bullying the seller.  Emotional people make you crazy?  You are the picture of rationality?  Dude,  you are kidding yourself,  but not us.  I say this gently,  and it has  almost nothing to do with real estate,  but with life,  which is pretty important:  Figure this part of yourself out.  May I suggest a book such as the following....

Nothing's Wrong: A Man's Guide to Managing His Feelings 

by David Kundtz 

Peace.

What are your chances of getting this deal if more buyers gets whims of it? I think you are being very aggressive. I am all about relationship with seller. If she start feeling ill about you then even after you make her full price offer, she will choose to go with someone else who may have lower offer. Be careful how you push it. Real estate is a game of patience and relationship building. That is why I was able to buy two small multi family buildings from two different people who sold me their properties before. This was in last 30 days, both never been listed, no haggle but very friendly conversation and win-win scenario.

@Dylan Thomas these are always exciting. I wouldn't say you were being a bully by any means, just an agressive investor. If the property had only been on the market for 5 days and you get you first offer under ask, as a real estate agent you would be horrible at your job to suggest that the seller accept that offer. Especially with the contengencies and deadlines, they want the exact opposite of what you want. They want bidding wars and to be able to tell other buyers/investors that they have other offers so you can't blame them in all honesty. My question to you would be if they don't get any other offers in the next 2 weeks would you take the deal on the same terms? If so, play it cool and keep your eyes on it maybe even let them know that your offer is still on the table if they don't get any better offers. Then when they come back to you to ask if you're still interested, renege back to your intial offer and the deal is likely done on your terms. Just my $0.02

Good luck and best wishes!

@Dylan Thomas  Agree with the sentiment already expressed, you were the emotional one in the situation and it cost you a potentially good deal.  You even wrote in the follow up post that emotional people drive you crazy, yet you are the emotional person in this scenario.  

Someone else suggested reading "Never Split the Difference" and I second that recommendation.  You misread the negotiation and who had the leverage.  Time was not on your side, most sellers know the current market favors them and are in no hurry to jump at an offer.  The moment you created a deadline, let it pass, then set a new one you completely surrendered whatever leverage you had left.

We have all made mistakes, at least anyone who has been at it for a while, so you are in good company.  Do your best to learn, be better, and not make the same mistake again.  Emotion isn't the enemy, just have to learn to control it.  Good luck.  
 


Originally posted by @Ryan Proffit :

@Dylan Thomas I would say perhaps a little pushy. I just closed on an 8 plex last night. We gave a full price offer, and it still took the seller seven days to respond. Of course during this, he was building 4 houses, a Dunkin Donuts, and remodeling a Taco Johns. We basically had to go the extra mile and baby the deal to get it done. I would say, you never know what people have going on. With my 8 plex deal, it was huuuuuge to me, but it was small potatoes to the seller.

we just put a contract in   on a large AG prop in Oregon full price  multi millions and sellers agent said they have to wait till after church on Sunday to present the offer.. Everyone has a time line. I think its a deal we can do really well on    on  lot split side.. So will see.. we risk others coming in between yesterday when we presented our contract and Sunday.. But it is what it is..   Also WE NEVER say we are making and offer we always say we have a contract for them.  Offer implies less than asking or terms etc.. its a little nuance that has served me well over the years.. 

 

'Your price, my terms' or 'my price, your terms.'  


You submitted your price and your terms AND with your strict deadline (which should have been reset every time a new counter was made, btw) along with unnecessary behavior.  The deals you get done will be long and hard-fought and likely few and far-between as well.  Everyone's in business here, but not everyone does it your way and you shouldn't expect them to.

@Dylan Thomas , you were definitely the emotional one in this transaction. If this woman is selling one property now, and you acted reasonably during the transaction, the next one may have come to you before it hit the market.  Very short sighted. 

Also, getting mad over an unrealistic 24 hour time deadline is crazy to me, and personally I'd probably throw out any offer that came in with such a ridiculous deadline.  I'm working on a 10MM+ deal right now and the very seasoned buyer came in with an 8 day deadline for response.  Putting a gun to someone's head is not a good way to conduct business.

@Dylan Thomas ironically you are the emotional one here. You said it "pisses you off", which my friend is EMOTION. This is business. If the deal is worth doing, why can't you wait until noon the next day? Instead you would rather throw the whole deal out? Your counter offer asking for 2.5% at $187,000. That extra .5% amounts to $935. You threw out a deal over less than $1000?

Odds are very good if you would have just said, "no problem, get back to me by noon" that she would have just accepted your counter offer. Instead you lost the deal. Even if she was emotional, your job in a negotiation is to use that to your advantage, not "bully" her. Emotional sellers want to feel like they are working with people who care about their needs.

You sound like a hot head. I am sure she figured if you are that difficult to negotiate with, that you will be nothing but a pain all the way to closing. 

@Dylan Thomas

Your pushiness would have made me tell you to go fly a kite personally. You have no idea what’s going on in this woman’s life, or if she even needs to sell. Take a step back and let this lady figure it out.

@Dylan Thomas

Don’t take this personally, but with your attitude I would have told you to shove your deal.

You’ve never heard that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar?

Calm down and be nice, and hopefully people will react differently and accept your offers.

@Tiffany Roberts

I’d like to change my answer to everything that Tiffany wrote. Perfect. I have also found that with age comes wisdom and patience.

Thus far, the OP has neither (sorry if that sounds straight up insulting). I hope after a few deals he will gain both.

@Dylan Thomas I can see both sides of your situation but my opinion is sometimes the best way to close a deal is giving a nominal win to the seller. Let them only oh 2 % instead of 2.5. You said you were okay with a 45 day close and offered 60. Seems like you have room to wiggle and if your numbers are correct 187 vs 180 wouldn’t make this deal a bust. I say give the seller a bit more time and room to accept or reject. If I was selling to you I’d feel pushed and would turn you down even if the offer was nominally better.

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