Is anyone familiar with this site ustaxlienassociation.com?

Question

This site offers a "free" 7 day course on tax lien investing.  As anyone ever come across this and used them?  Any info greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

David Krulac · Answer

@John S Lewis As @Ned Carey said, I have repeated many times here on BP that Tax Sales are the most hazardous way to buy real estate.

1.  Most of the time you can't get into the property.  Some people break and enter, but I don't do that and I don't recommend that.  I say that the condition of the inside is often similar to the outside.  But not always the case:

A.  Tax Sale bidder bought a suburban property with nice yard.  After the sale when he got in the former owner had ripped out all the wiring and there were holes through out the house in walls, ceilings and floors, and the former owner was still living there.

B.  Bank foreclosed of a house, then for some reason didn't do anything for 5 years.  I think there was a bank merger and this property might have slipped through the cracks.  The bank-owner didn't pay the taxes and the property went to Tax Sale.  The outside looked decent.  However, after the sale the inside was seen for the first time and was much different.  There was a low pitched/flat roof not visible from the ground that had been leaking for a long time, probably years.  the hardwood floors were swollen so that there were humps in the floors 12 inches high, and mushrooms were growing in the wall to wall carpet.

C.  Bank foreclosed on a house#2, turned electric off, didn't pay tax bill, property went up for Tax Sale.  Finished basement with family room, bedroom and full bath were flooded with at least 2 feet of water for at least 2 years, because with the electric off the sump pump didn't work and the high water table flooded the basement.

D. Bank foreclosed on a house #3, turned off electric, finished basement flooded, about 3 feet of water for 3 years.  Bank didn't pay taxes, property sold without seeing inside, the entire house was covered with mold on inside.  All walls, ceilings, floors, kitchen, bath and insulation had to be remediated by a mold remediation company, as well as new roof, new electric service and all new HVAC and ductwork.   Other than the shell, it ended up being a brand new house with the reno budget far exceeding the purchase price.

David Krulac · Answer

@John S Lewis

I've heard of the individuals mentioned on their website, but have never dealt with them, or know anybody else who has.  I think one or both of them have books, that might be a place to start.  Part of the problem with the scant education on Tax Sales is that every state is different, and even within one state, rules, regulations and procedures can be different.

The first thing you need to decide is whether you want to purchase Tax Deeds or Tax Liens; totally different animal and should be approached totally differently.  @Ned Carey and I just had a lengthy conversation last week of Tax Deeds and Tax Liens.  About half of the states are Tax Deed States and half Tax Lien States.  The web site you mentioned apparently only deals with Tax Lien States.

I favor operating close to home, and your home state is a Tax Lien State, as well as nearby MD and WV.

I'd read all that I can at low costs or no costs, websites, books etc., but I would not spend a lot of money on some course.

I'd go to some local sales in areas that you would be interested in purchasing Tax Liens.  Go to the sales and observe, you don't have to bid, and every sale I've been to there is no charge for admission.  See who are the big bidders, local investors, institutions, etc.  Ask a bunch of questions of both bidders and county officials conducting the sale.  Join a local REIA group and talk with investors there who buy Tax Liens.  In every area there are a few, a very few attorneys who handle Tax Liens, for either the bidders or the tax delinquent owner.  Its pretty easy to find out who's in the group because almost all attorneys do not work this field.

In WV, for example the Tax Liens pay 12% interest and are redeemable in 18 months.  Pretty great return in these days with 1% CDs, but most of the "good" properties will be redeemed and while you get the interest, most of the time will not get the property.

Ned Carey · Answer

I honestly don't know if there materials are good. I do know that the pitch they give is bogus.  If you go to their site and watch the video there are many misstatements.

Fact 1) the law does not guarantee your return nor "Dictate how much you get paid"

Fact 2) @David Krulac a tax sale expert here on BP says he belies tax sale is one of the riskiest ways to acquire properties.

Fact 4) Tax sale is  absolutely NOT recession proof. I wrote off a lot of tax liens from the 2008-2010 recession

That is as far as I bothered watching.

I believe in investing in my self and I have learned a lot from both free and paid courses.  Just realize that no one course is going to teach you everything you need to know.

Jay Hinrichs · Answer

@Ned Carey  cant see how anyone can do a 7 day course for free.. ( from the course providers stand point).

as I have mentioned I thought I would give this a go and went down to MS with a few hundred K to buy liens

it was a mad house.. the big boys in the back of the room with their lap tops flying buying most everything.

I squeezed off 10k worth and the quite as I knew I was just throwing darts.. LOL.. well none of them ever redeemed and

I lost interest and frankly forgot about em and lost my 10k.. so that was a 10k self education into understanding that

there is much more to this type of investing than meets the eye and its to detailed for someone like me.

Now I have done a bunch of tax sale investing and done well at that... but those are auctions you bid you buy you get a deed

however now with bid 4 assets doing it on line you get all these folks who big this stuff up to past retail so that's no longer very fruitful or fun anymore  :)  at least were I troll for deals.

And in my state I think we at the only state in the union that does not do tax sale or tax lien.. and very few properties go.. and if they do go to tax sale they just escheat to the state.. who then sometime in the future sells them off as surplus.

and I have seen owners who lost them petition the county supervisors and get the property back.. which I know is very unique.

Frank Bowen · Answer

Thank you for providing this information. Just wanted to do some research before actually making a purchase.

John S Lewis · Answer

@David Krulac

@Jay Hinrichs

@Ned Carey

Thank you gentlemen.  I was not planning on paying for any education from them.  As I've learned on BP, there's a ton of free info on here.  I had clicked through a link on a sub-REIA page, and it brought me there so I questioned the validity of it. You have all helped me make a better informed decision.  Thanks again!

Is anyone familiar with this site ustaxlienassociation.com?

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