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Multi-Family and Apartment Investing

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Raza Rizvi
  • Rental Property Investor
  • New York, NY
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Purchasing a multi-family but completely confused

Raza Rizvi
  • Rental Property Investor
  • New York, NY
Posted Mar 24 2017, 18:36
Hello fellow investors, I have found a property in the Bronx that was advertised as a 3-family but the seller is claiming that it is zoned as a 2-family. In addition when I checked the town records it is showing as a single family home. Here is the reason for my confusion: 1. It has 3 electric meters (one for each floor) 2. It only has one boiler & one water heater All 3 apartments have full windows and lowest apt has 2 exits and is at garden level. There is a basement in addition to the 3 floors The house is priced like a 2 family but completely set up as 3. I will get my attorney to run the title report to see if it is actually a 2 family. Here are my questions: 1. Is it really hard to convert a 2 family to 3 in the Bronx? Anyone has any experience where I should start? 2. If it is zoned only as a single family, I feel I should walk away. Besides checking the county website & title, does anyone have any idea where to check if it is one or 2 family? The property has no Certificate of occupancy since it was built in 1901 but was just gutted out completely & set up as a 3 family. Obviously without proper permits. Any help would be appreciated. Should I pursue this or walk away?? Thanks!!

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Joseph Gozlan
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Plano, TX
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Joseph Gozlan
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Plano, TX
Replied Mar 24 2017, 22:24

@Raza Rizvi can't answer your first question but the answer to the second is a resounding yes for me. If you have a single family zoning I wouldn't touch it. The risk is too high. 

You can reach out to a title company and ask them to run a quick check for you.  Many title company would do that for free. 

Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Excelsior, MN
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Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Excelsior, MN
Replied Mar 25 2017, 01:57

I agree with @Joseph Gozlan.  If that thing is zoned as a single family, I would be running in the other direction here in Minnesota.  It is essentially impossible to get zoned for more units here.  Not sure how hard it is in NY, hopefully someone with knowledge of that area can chime in.

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George Hermann
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Bronx, NY
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George Hermann
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Bronx, NY
Replied Mar 25 2017, 05:00

@Raza Rizvi

If it's a non permitted conversion, I would not purchase it. There are plenty of 3 unit properties available throughout the Bronx. 

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Thomas Hickey
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Peabody, MA
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Thomas Hickey
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Peabody, MA
Replied Mar 25 2017, 05:21

The town fire Marshall and building inspector should have a unit count on file. Don't count on legally being able to add any units.

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Stanley Parsley
  • Investor
  • Chandler, AZ
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Stanley Parsley
  • Investor
  • Chandler, AZ
Replied Mar 25 2017, 05:25

if you are really interested go down to the city and do a background on the property do the same at the tax office

with this information in hand you can now

RUN!!

it sounds like a permit and remodel nightmare unless you buy it and leave it alone- depending on numbers

enjoy

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Ceasar Rosas
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Bronx, NY
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Ceasar Rosas
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Bronx, NY
Replied Mar 25 2017, 05:40

@Raza Rizvi

Hi Raza,

Have you tried checking this website: http://www1.nyc.gov/site/buildings/index.page ? This is the department of buildings website that should tell you what it is listed as and what the zoning is. There are 3 families that have 1 hot water tank and 1 boiler for the whole house, especially in older homes like this one. It sounds like you possibly are looking at a 2 family. The reason for the 3 electrical meters, is that 2 can be for the actual units, and the other is a house meter, for common areas and basement(which they are probably selling as a unit). What has your Realtor, if you're using one, been able to tell you? If not ask your attorney. If you're financing and it is dependent on it being a 3 family your bank most likely will not finance it. I would also ask your attorney to write up an addendum stating that you will only go through with the purchase if it is in fact a 3 family. Or a 2 if your numbers work. Hope that helps.

  • Broker NY (#10301210194)

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Colleen F.
Pro Member
  • Investor
  • Narragansett, RI
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Colleen F.
Pro Member
  • Investor
  • Narragansett, RI
Replied Mar 25 2017, 05:43

Check with the  building department for permits as well as the tax office for the history.  I have seen a house converted by error in the tax rolls from 2 family to one.  I am not sure how you see historical tax information. Keep in mind the building department and the tax office don't always communicate so check on the permits too.

The one thing that is very hard to change is zoning.  If you are in an area zoned only for single family  you don't need more research, that isn't  likely to change.

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Chris Rosenberg
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Myrtle Beach, SC
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Chris Rosenberg
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Myrtle Beach, SC
Replied Mar 27 2017, 15:27

@Ceasar Rosas

I have been told that the DOB property look up and DOF classification is not always accurate. It shows what the dwelling is classified as for tax purposes only. Example - 932 Van Nest Ave. shows B9-2 family dwelling on the DOB website. Has 2 electric meters. Zoning is for single family. 

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Ceasar Rosas
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Bronx, NY
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Ceasar Rosas
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Bronx, NY
Replied Mar 28 2017, 15:29

@Chris Rosenberg

I looked it up, and it seems that the zoning is R4-1 which allows for one or two families. I know those type of houses, they were all single families at once. Many were converted to 2. This one looks like it started the process by separating meters, but never followed through. I checked DOB, Dept of City Planning, Realist, RPR, so it seems zoning is for up to 2 families, and while DOB lists it as a 2 family dwelling it seems to be a single family still. It is currently listed as such and someone else listed it prior as a 2 and is probably the reason it didn't sell. 

  • Broker NY (#10301210194)

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