Please review my Deposit refund letter - Charges due! - PA

OP

Virtual Assistant · Clifford Township, PA · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 17 votes

9y

good call on the lease. will add in the future.

It my understanding that even though they went month to month I was due 30 days notice.

I did not move to evict, my foolishness. I had received multiple texts from the husband that he would pay as soon as he was in town. He stays in NJ for 2 weeks at a time then comes home for the weekend.

I wanted to do the final walk-through with the tenant, both refused to meet with me. I let myself in and changed the locks on the 20th after the wife had replied they were fully moved out.

Karen Johnson

Investor · AMBLER, PA · Member since 2013 · 158 posts · 98 votes

9y

I hope you'll be able to recoup your costs, but I'm not sure the odds are in your favor here. I would suggest that instead detailing all the costs in a letter (which can be confusing or unclear to the tenant) you send a security deposit accounting statement. If you send a letter as well, keep that succinct, just stating how much is owed and that you are requesting payment. I'm not sure if BP will remove this link (I don't think so), but you can see samples on ezlandlordforms.com (look under Forms-->Move Out). There is a "Security Deposit Accounting Statement" and a "Balance Owed After Moveout - Demand for Payment" letter. I used the former when I had my last tenant move out. BP probably has similar forms on the site, but you'd have to look for those as I'm not sure where they are. Hope this helps!

OP

Virtual Assistant · Clifford Township, PA · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 17 votes

9y

@Karen Johnson - Very good advice. I know what I meant to say and I had a hard time keeping it clear too. How's this one look?

Karen Johnson

Investor · AMBLER, PA · Member since 2013 · 158 posts · 98 votes

9y

That looks much better, @Shannon Trivett. Clear and easy to follow. Be sure to keep your itemized bills and receipts. Hopefully the ex-tenant just pays up, but if they don't and you decide to go to court, you'll be able to show documentation proving the expenses.

Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

In Minnesota Security Deposit Statements or Refunds are due within 21 days of move out , at this date you'd not get a dime if it was a MN property..

So hope you made your state, deadline.

Otherwise, be prepared to give a detailed cost for every penny of $1800.00 in damages and cleaning. You'll need hours spent paid to whom, cleaning product cost, The $1800.00 looks like a made up number. That's 90 hours labor at $20.00 per hour.. Be prepared to justify all of those costs.

Tom S.

Real Estate Investor · Burlington, VT · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

@Shannon Trivett Just curious, you mentioned there was some canyon marks and general dirtiness in the place - how did that come to $1800? I personally itemize everything in the letter, although I don't attach receipts (I save them however).

As @Deanna McCormick mentioned, make sure you adhere to the deadlines in your state. In VT it's 14 days, although I know many others are 21.

Thanks

- Tom

OP

Virtual Assistant · Clifford Township, PA · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 17 votes

9y

we have 30 days here.

the $1800 breaks down to $300 in cleaning. $30 for 10 hours... walls/windows/appliances.
and a contractor stripping wallpaper in a stairway and dining room then texture and painting. replacing a door and know, replacing bathroom vanity mirror, some trash removal(tv) it's all legit.

If you review my initial post it's only half of the estimated cost of repairs plus actual cleaning costs.

OP

Virtual Assistant · Clifford Township, PA · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 17 votes

9y

@Tom S. the 1800 breaks down to half of the contractors est of $3,000 for repairs plus $300 is actual cleaning costs thru a service.

I don't have the final bill from the contractor but would be happy to adjust as the need arises.

Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

Sorry Estimated costs are not paid bills and what your charging for cleaning per hour is not going to fly in court if it goes that far.

Check the below, and do more research so you know what to do.

What about when a tenant moves out? What is the deadline in Pennsylvania for returning a security deposit?

Under Pennsylvania law, a landlord must return the tenant's security deposit within 30 days after the tenant has surrendered the rental property to the landlord (that is, returned the keys and vacated the property).

Learn more about tenants' rights and landlords' obligations when it comes to the return of the security deposit in Nolo's chart Cleaning and Repairs a Landlord Can Deduct from a Security Deposit and Nolo's article Get Your Security Deposit Back.

Is there additional information that Pennsylvania landlords must provide to tenants when it comes to security deposits in Pennsylvania?

Yes. For security deposits over $100, landlords in Pennsylvania must deposit the funds in a federally- or state-regulated institution and give the tenant the name and address of the banking institution and the amount of the deposit. Also in Pennsylvania, tenants who occupy a rental unit for two or more years are entitled to interest paid on the security deposit beginning on the 25th month of occupancy.

Where can I look up Pennsylvania law on security deposits?

If you want to go right to the source and look up Pennsylvania law on security deposits -- or if you're writing a letter to your landlord or tenant and want to cite the applicable law -- the relevant statute(s) can be found at Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes Annotated Title 68 §§ 250.511a to 250.512. Your city or county might have different landlord-tenant and security deposit laws than those at the state level in Pennsylvania. For tips on looking up Pennsylvania state and local laws, check out Nolo's State Laws & Legal Research section.

You may also find useful information in the tenant guide available at http://tenant.net/Other_Areas/Penn/harris/pa-toc.html.

OP

Virtual Assistant · Clifford Township, PA · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 17 votes

9y

would it be best to break it out a little further, like bellow

OP

Virtual Assistant · Clifford Township, PA · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 17 votes

9y

@Deanna McCormick, Thank you for the links.

How do you handle the 30 day requirement when work is not finished?

My cleaning company (real company, not me or friends, was there yesterday. I know they were there 8 hours but I do not have the bill in hand.
The contractor gave me his estimate but he just completed his work this week so I also do not have his final bill in hand.

Can I add a note stating that charges are based on professional estimates and will be adjusted as final bills are received.?

David Moore

Investor · Crystal, MN · Member since 2013 · 486 posts · 277 votes

9y

@Deanna McCormick

I've been mildly surprised at the number of people who incorrectly cite Minnesota statutes as saying it is illegal for the landlord to withhold rents from the damage deposit. There is a process in place you must follow, but following an unpaid rent demand letter, state law clearly says damage deposits can be used to repay rents not paid.

@Shannon Trivett

I feel your pain as a fellow investor. I had one tenant in similar straits once. I used cash for keys to get her out, and got in her place one of my best ever tenants (giving God the credit - He answers prayer). I did a quick read on Pennsylvania tenant/landlord default notice to vacate, and it appears since the lease does not dictate, you are past 30 days. But, you have written notice that the tenant said 'use the damage deposit for rent' for the back rent. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see why you cannot retain the $675.00. It sure sounds to me that you can keep the damage deposit, since the renter is not going to demand it. But how will you get the rest of the damages?

If you were renting at $675.00 and could not afford that rent, how are you going to afford a $2,000.00 bill? Isn't it noncollectable?

OP

Virtual Assistant · Clifford Township, PA · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 17 votes

9y

@David Moore since the least does not dictate what? Tenant did not vacate till 9/19 that would make 30 days 10/19
if you use 9-15, the days they said they would be out - I would have to mail this letter by the 15th of October. As it was mailed yesterday I'm believe I've fulfilled my obligation.

As for if I'll be able to collect, Husband is gainfully employed and currently has no other housing expenses, I'm willing to take payments and would even take less. My primary concerns are the water, repairs and cleaning costs.

Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

This is the security deposit statement I use and find it works best, if I run out of room I attach a seperate sheet for further information.

Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

Yes security deposits are used to cover any unpaid rents, court costs, fees, cleaning, damages, ect.

But you are required to list what funds you applied to what, and get the tenant the response within your state guidelines.

Chris K.

Attorney · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

@Shannon Trivett

1. Under the above scenario, you probably can just keep the security deposit for the last month's rent. I believe it's Section 250.512 of the Landlord and Tenant Act that allows the landlord to refuse returning the security deposit if the tenants fails to pay rent (or otherwise fails to cure a breach of the lease).

2. The more important point is that you will forfeit your right to bring suit for damages to the property unless you give the 30-day notice.

3. As a landlord, you have the privilege that most people do not have in PA --- ability to garnish wages. You will need to first get a judgment, but it's a rare privilege. Take a look at 42 Pa.C.S. 8127.

4. The fact that they are going through a divorce might be helpful. I'm not a family lawyer, but it's my understanding that the spouses need to basically tally up their assets and income. You may be able to use that fact (and the dynamics of divorce) to see if you could get something from the husband or wife.