Inheriting a "sexually violent predator against children" tenant

73 Replies

I am Derek Logue, Founder of the site OnceFallen, an advocacy and support site to assist those forced to register, as well as a nationally recognized expert on this topic, and I'm quite frankly shocked and appalled at the disgusting comments on this thread. You folks are in serious need of an education. 

First off, don't confuse the registry with parole. In Indiana, residency restrictions are only applicable as parole conditions, and all housing for those under supervision has to be approved by the PO before one can even move into a residence, so it is obvious he is there legally. 

Second, if this person was a problem tenant, then he would not have lasted 5 years. I know not just from first hand experience that those on the registry are the type to pay rent on time and maintain a low profile, unlike the dope boys and thugs you'll rent to in your little C and D rank properties. They're also most likely to keep their places clean. 


Third, if I found out that you were trying to charge me more rent than another tenant, I'd sue you. You have more money to lose than I do, and I could draft a decent enough argument to make the case very difficult. I'd gladly advise other registered persons to do the same. 

Fourth, it seems that some of you people get your talking points from SVU reruns or Nancy Grace type shows. Real life isn't TV. People convicted of sex crimes have the lowest rate of recidivism by far (less than 1% annually); the lie that "sex offenders can't be cured" is not based on any fact at all. Stranger Danger is old hat, even the NCMEC advises people NOT to teach stranger danger any more. Most sex crimes are committed by those not on any registry. Geez, does anyone research any more? 

I am glad Brook backed out of that deal. It sickens me to know she was going to uproot this guy after five years of no problems just because she has a personal animus based upon fearmongering. I would not rent from any of you people, and I'm glad there are some who don't believe the nonsense spewed by the media and victim rights' groups. You fail to consider you are dealing with human beings. If any of you have a problem with my words, then too bad. 

This post has been removed.

Originally posted by @Vinay H. :

Before we get pitchforks and lynch mobs, possibly there is a need to talk to the local police to find out about the situation. Maybe he committed the crime 20 years ago and is now reformed. Find out the details from him and from the police. People deserve a second chance, and that's a reason why he was not given the death penalty..

If we all chase him out and make him jobless and homeless, is this a better situation for society? 

Obviously this is a major headache, but if you can't stomach it, better back out of the deal. Even if he turns out to be the best tenant ever, his presence will limit your potential tenants for the other units.  

I think there are 2 options - either get more info and develop a strategy or back out of deal.

 OK at least one person here gets it. 

Originally posted by @John Clark :

"Before we get pitchforks and lynch mobs, possibly there is a need to talk to the local police to find out about the situation. Maybe he committed the crime 20 years ago and is now reformed."

-------------------

You missed the words "repeat offender." If he offended 20 years ago and is still on the list, that tells me the crimeS were heinous. Check out landlord's liability and whether an undisclosed defect/risk in the purchase contract, or tenant estoppel letters, or whatever, let the buyer out. What part of c-o-n-s-u-l-t t-w-o l-a-w-y-e-r-s, one each in criminal/tort law and the other in property law, does anyone on this forum not understand?

 You don't understand ANYTHING about the registry. The registry is an arbitrary list with different states making different standards. Length of registration is arbitrary. Many states force ALL registrants to register for life. 

You based your assumptions this person is a "repeat offender" because of the length of time the tenant was on the list? That's not how the registry works. Some states do risk assessments and some simply go by the charge. Either way, one can get a lifetime registration status regardless of number of offenses, so a person can register 25 years or for life only committing one offense. 

Originally posted by @David H. :
@Jim Adrian

In my opinion a person that rapes or molests an innocent child, should be living in a place 6 feet under. Some things are way more important than money, and this is one.

I would either get out of the deal or might just go through with the deal only cause I would make it my personal mission to get rid of this guy.

 Admitting you would be willing to engage in criminal activity online will certainly make you liable for any vigilante attacks in your area. 

Who said anything about doing anything illegal. I would find something within the lines to get it done. 

Sorry that i disgust you (actually I'm not at all) but I guess it's to be expected if you are ok with people that molest little kids. My decision is based nothing on thier potential to do it again, its what's already been done. Someone has to stand up for the children since you seem to be more concerned with the predators. I think this is a huge  problem with this country in the lack of severity in this department so your not going to get any sympathy from me. We are on total opposite sides of the fence on this one.

@Brook Rieman - That's bummer that the first deal didn't go through... but talk about a dodged bullet. It is a good lesson for everyone... I never even thought about the possibility of inheriting a repeat sex offender, and how that would complicate things.

@Brook Rieman Cash for keys. Make him an offer to leave. Or let him know you need to inspect and see if you can find anyting in the unit that causes him to be in breach of his agreement. For example, if he has caused damage then you immediately charge him for it. If he doesn't pay in that is the same as not paying rent and you can probably evict, depending on the local law. Or you can cope that he is a changed person and see if he may be the best renter in that property. Let the math decide, not your emotion.
Originally posted by @David H. :

Who said anything about doing anything illegal. I would find something within the lines to get it done. 

Sorry that i disgust you (actually I'm not at all) but I guess it's to be expected if you are ok with people that molest little kids. My decision is based nothing on thier potential to do it again, its what's already been done. Someone has to stand up for the children since you seem to be more concerned with the predators. I think this is a huge  problem with this country in the lack of severity in this department so your not going to get any sympathy from me. We are on total opposite sides of the fence on this one.

 I seriously doubt someone like you would find something "within the lines." If someone served out their sentence that should be the end of it, no registry, no shady landlords like you discriminating against them. People with your attitude is the real reason why this country is going down the toilet. I could care less for your "sympathy." I'm glad you are in another state because we have enough scummy slumlords in SW Ohio. 

Originally posted by @Derek Logue :
Originally posted by @David Hallner:

Who said anything about doing anything illegal. I would find something within the lines to get it done. 

Sorry that i disgust you (actually I'm not at all) but I guess it's to be expected if you are ok with people that molest little kids. My decision is based nothing on thier potential to do it again, its what's already been done. Someone has to stand up for the children since you seem to be more concerned with the predators. I think this is a huge  problem with this country in the lack of severity in this department so your not going to get any sympathy from me. We are on total opposite sides of the fence on this one.

 I seriously doubt someone like you would find something "within the lines." If someone served out their sentence that should be the end of it, no registry, no shady landlords like you discriminating against them. People with your attitude is the real reason why this country is going down the toilet. I could care less for your "sympathy." I'm glad you are in another state because we have enough scummy slumlords in SW Ohio. 

Its interesting that you are hung up on me staying legal (which i never said otherwise) yet u pm me calling me names and that you would ruin my house if you had the chance, so i guess legality only applies when it suits you right. It's funny that people like you play the victim until you dont get your way then the true colors come through. Like I said if we were talking some minor crime that has a person on the sex crime list, I would understand your position. And when it comes to pedophiles, I agree with you they shouldn't be on the list. They should be in jail for life!! 

Look at it this way: you KNOW about this guy. What you dont know is the tenant/neighbor/family member who is currently committing, or who will commit, a sex offense. Ninety-five percent of the people listed on the registry are first-time offenders--that means that the next arrest for a sex offense in your community will be of someone NOT on the registry...perhaps a current tenant you would never suspect.

You cannot kick out someone listed on the registry under the guise of protecting your community. If registrants cannot find decent housing, do you really think that increasing the number of homeless registrants makes your community safer? 

For those who have been incarcerated, three elements help them succeed: employment, housing, and connection to the community. As landlords, you can all be part of the solution. Be proud of that.

Probably the best option offered here by @Jill F. . If it's a great deal, maybe just suck it up for a few months. I like cash for keys, but honestly, if I were in your shoes, I'd hate to sit across from the guy and have to negotiate anything with him. 

If your contingencies in the contract are up, I am sure you could get out by pushing that this was not disclosed to you previously. 

Good luck, please keep us in the loop. 

@Derek Logue

What you fail to comprehend is that our business is built on reputation. Having a convicted sex offender or criminal of any type is bad for our reputation. It makes it difficult for us as investors to continue to find good tenants when word gets around that we are housing criminals. It makes zero difference what quality of tenant they are. It is 100% about perception.

We are in business to make money, unlike you we are not social workers and really don't care about dispelling misconceptions. You are wasting your time education use about something that does not add money to our bottom line.

To clarify....we don't care.

@Jill F. I totally agree. My best deals have had lots of hair on it. One run down building had druggies and one lady stabbed two women during my eviction stage. Funny it was aprils fools day and she is still in jail awaiting attempted murder charges. My place is rehabbed and full of wonderful tenants so do not run from this IF its a deal! Boom!
@Gilbert Dominguez I disagree. Do you of your tenants live a clean and balmeless life behind the curtain? Maybe, but if its a deal, just leverage the realtors and sellers during the inspection period, OR do not renew. I mean hes been there 5 months and has not harmed anyone, so why walk? And I promise this said man will be living by kids again, just as he is now in his life. Its not endorsing, thats why they checked prior!! I applaud them as most buyers would have NEVER done this? Would you do this up front ?

I would definitely consult a lawyer or the police (a PI will help with this too) and find a violation of the area where he is living. The statistics are very high as to how many sexual offenders live within a violation (school, kids, etc) and not by choice necessarily, it's simply very hard to find rent in areas where they won't be violating. Between finding a violation and getting the current owner to get him to agree to move/or lower cost, presuming you'll pay him to move with whatever excuse, I think those are the two strongest options here.

Originally posted by @Thomas S. :

@Derek Logue

What you fail to comprehend is that our business is built on reputation. Having a convicted sex offender or criminal of any type is bad for our reputation. It makes it difficult for us as investors to continue to find good tenants when word gets around that we are housing criminals. It makes zero difference what quality of tenant they are. It is 100% about perception.

We are in business to make money, unlike you we are not social workers and really don't care about dispelling misconceptions. You are wasting your time education use about something that does not add money to our bottom line.

To clarify....we don't care.

 And that is exactly why people like you are part of the problem. What I do find silly is how many uneducated people go into low income neighborhoods to buy property then complain about the people forced to live there because of their low incomes. If you want to pretend to have morality, then go buy a high end property in the snooty portions of your area and leave the low income areas alone. 

But for people who actually care about running a property in a low income area, renting to registered humans is a far better investment than renting to someone who has a history of drugs or gangs. 

Originally posted by @David H. :
Originally posted by @Derek Logue:
Originally posted by @David Hallner:

Who said anything about doing anything illegal. I would find something within the lines to get it done. 

Sorry that i disgust you (actually I'm not at all) but I guess it's to be expected if you are ok with people that molest little kids. My decision is based nothing on thier potential to do it again, its what's already been done. Someone has to stand up for the children since you seem to be more concerned with the predators. I think this is a huge  problem with this country in the lack of severity in this department so your not going to get any sympathy from me. We are on total opposite sides of the fence on this one.

 I seriously doubt someone like you would find something "within the lines." If someone served out their sentence that should be the end of it, no registry, no shady landlords like you discriminating against them. People with your attitude is the real reason why this country is going down the toilet. I could care less for your "sympathy." I'm glad you are in another state because we have enough scummy slumlords in SW Ohio. 

Its interesting that you are hung up on me staying legal (which i never said otherwise) yet u pm me calling me names and that you would ruin my house if you had the chance, so i guess legality only applies when it suits you right. It's funny that people like you play the victim until you dont get your way then the true colors come through. Like I said if we were talking some minor crime that has a person on the sex crime list, I would understand your position. And when it comes to pedophiles, I agree with you they shouldn't be on the list. They should be in jail for life!! 

 No one is playing victim here. You are just mad because I confronted you over your illiteracy and personal bias. The problem is someone who took four tries just to spell the P word correctly can't be trusted to discern who is a "pedophile" (not "pedafile" like you tend to spell it) and who is not. The registry makes no distinction. 

You live in a state that feels prostitution and kids playing doctor are at least Tier 2 sex offenders and mark their drivers licences. 

@Derek Logue

I agree that if you are investing in low income it will be infested with criminals of all sorts primarily due to the fact that their lives are a mess, quality landlords (B class or better) will not rent to them and that is where they belong. Reputation is of a much lesser concern in a C/D class property and, in fact, for the most part the reputation is that you rent to the dregs of society.

Sex offenders, drugs, gangs all fit the same demographic.

To be clear I personally could not care less about morality it is only my business I care about. The entire moral outrage over renting to registered offenders is a red hearing. It is all about being bad for business. If people are going to judge tenants based on their own personal moral standards they should not be in business.  The proper way for a business to operate is to judge applicants/tenants based on economic impact only. Caring about individual's ahead of the entire business is not appropiate.

Originally posted by @Derek Logue :
Originally posted by @David H.:
Originally posted by @Derek Logue:
Originally posted by @David Hallner:

Who said anything about doing anything illegal. I would find something within the lines to get it done. 

Sorry that i disgust you (actually I'm not at all) but I guess it's to be expected if you are ok with people that molest little kids. My decision is based nothing on thier potential to do it again, its what's already been done. Someone has to stand up for the children since you seem to be more concerned with the predators. I think this is a huge  problem with this country in the lack of severity in this department so your not going to get any sympathy from me. We are on total opposite sides of the fence on this one.

 I seriously doubt someone like you would find something "within the lines." If someone served out their sentence that should be the end of it, no registry, no shady landlords like you discriminating against them. People with your attitude is the real reason why this country is going down the toilet. I could care less for your "sympathy." I'm glad you are in another state because we have enough scummy slumlords in SW Ohio. 

Its interesting that you are hung up on me staying legal (which i never said otherwise) yet u pm me calling me names and that you would ruin my house if you had the chance, so i guess legality only applies when it suits you right. It's funny that people like you play the victim until you dont get your way then the true colors come through. Like I said if we were talking some minor crime that has a person on the sex crime list, I would understand your position. And when it comes to pedophiles, I agree with you they shouldn't be on the list. They should be in jail for life!! 

 No one is playing victim here. You are just mad because I confronted you over your illiteracy and personal bias. The problem is someone who took four tries just to spell the P word correctly can't be trusted to discern who is a "pedophile" (not "pedafile" like you tend to spell it) and who is not. The registry makes no distinction. 

You live in a state that feels prostitution and kids playing doctor are at least Tier 2 sex offenders and mark their drivers licences. 

I'm not mad at all, you didnt call out my bias, I was quite clear that I am prejudice against pedophiles. You just dont like that which is your issue as I'm good with it. 

And that's pretty typical of people that have lost thier argument when they start pointing out spelling issues lol. By the way you spelled licenses wrong, might wanna use spell check when calling out spelling, but who cares right.

Anyway this horse has been beat so have fun protecting the pedophilez! Yep, spelled it wrong for u!

Originally posted by @Derek Logue :

[...]People convicted of sex crimes have the lowest rate of recidivism by far (less than 1% annually);

Less than 1% annually? That's a very odd phrasing in order to obscure the facts. Some easier to understand recidivism rates from unbiased sources:

The US Bureau of Justice Statistics Studies:

  • Within 3 years following their release, 5.3% of sex offenders (men who had committed rape or sexual assault) were rearrested for another sex crime.
  • Compared to non-sex offenders released from State prisons, released sex offenders were 4 times more likely to be rearrested for a sex crime.

Scientific American article excerpts:

  • Sex crimes researchers R. Karl Hanson and Kelly E. Morton-Bourgon of Public Safety Canada conducted a large-scale meta-analysis (quantitative review) of recidivism rates among adult sex offenders. They found a rate of 14 percent over a period averaging five to six years. Recidivism rates increased over time, reaching 24 percent by 15 years.
  • Hanson and Morton-Bourgon found that sex offenders had a total recidivism rate (for both sex crimes and nonsexual violent crimes) of approximately 36 percent over a period of five to six years.

Not exactly salt of the earth people there! 

Third, if I found out that you were trying to charge me more rent than another tenant, I'd sue you. You have more money to lose than I do, and I could draft a decent enough argument to make the case very difficult. I'd gladly advise other registered persons to do the same.

I'm guessing that you are not a landlord and your experience with the law is being the defendant. With the exception of protected classes of people or specific laws targeting specific areas (pets, family size, etc), a landlord can charge different tenants different amounts for any reason. I can charge you more because of the sports teams you root for or because you wore a dress shirt that was untucked or because you drive a Kia. I would be surprised if there were many areas in this country that provide protective class status to sex offenders.

@Greg M. makes a point that has been glossed over.

My understanding is that discrimination is not illegal.  Discrimination against a protected class is illegal, which sex offenders are not.  You can even discriminate against redheads, lawyers, people with glasses, etc.

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