Testing Perspective Tenants / Covid

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Testing Perspective Tenants / Covid

Linda A Hawkins
Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 0 votes

I have some questions regarding tightening up my criteria for selecting prospective tenants, and weeding out potential bad eggs.

Does anybody have any thoughts on hiring a professional to administer a polygraph test and/ or a lie detector test to potential tenants? I am not beyond doing this. Maybe even a Criminologist or a Psychological profiler?

If anyone on this form is local to  Metro Atlanta Georgia, and is a professional that can administer these tests, I would welcome hearing from you.

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
5y

If that's a serious suggestion, then I would seriously suggest you get out of the rental business and invest in the stock market. A polygraph takes 1-3 hours to administer, not including scheduling and travel requirements, and costs hundreds of dollars.

And your subject line mentions COVID, but I don't see any question or comment relating to that.

If I were a renter, I would turn and run.

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  • Jody Sperling
    Omaha, NE · Member since 2020 · 611 posts · 665 votes
    5y

    Most people polygraph themselves on social media. Why not just run your standard background check after verifying the kind of person you're dealing with by reading through their social media profiles?

    1Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Linda A Hawkins  Seriously I would think you are paranoid. Not sure you would get many people to take one.  And it is not a $40 credit check so $$ on you.

    3Reply
  • Katrina Carter
    Yucaipa, CA · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 10 votes
    5y

    I don't know many people who would agree to have a polygraph test to rent an apartment! I'm sure I wouldn't!  Well, maybe out of curiosity, and if I could get you to ask my husband a few extra questions, maybe!

    4Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    5y

    No tenant is going to submit themselves to that.  Do the regular background tests and use your own judgment.  If you are not a good judge of character, bring along someone who is.

    0Reply
  • Linda A Hawkins
    OP
    Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    Thank you everyone for your replies.I agree with many of your comments.

    I do run a background check on every perspective tenant that hands in an application. Which includes: criminal, credit, prior eviction (wouldn't help now with Covid,) plus checking their sex offender status and social media.

    You would think that those screenings are enough, I know I did. Now I find myself wanting to add more self protection measures to the tenant screening process, so that I don't end up with someone else's problem tenant.

    What some tenants are putting their landlords through with the Covid protections that were in place is criminal, in my opinion. 

    If they are acting like criminals, why not pull out all the stops to protect yourself and your investments?





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  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Linda A Hawkins there are some personality tests out there for tenants, not sure how well they work.   

    0Reply
  • Linda A Hawkins
    OP
    Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 0 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Colleen F.:

    @Linda A Hawkins there are some personality tests out there for tenants, not sure how well they work.   

    That may be an avenue to research further, thank you.

    0Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    5y

    If that's a serious suggestion, then I would seriously suggest you get out of the rental business and invest in the stock market. A polygraph takes 1-3 hours to administer, not including scheduling and travel requirements, and costs hundreds of dollars.

    And your subject line mentions COVID, but I don't see any question or comment relating to that.

    If I were a renter, I would turn and run.

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  • Linda A Hawkins
    OP
    Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 0 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

    If that's a serious suggestion, then I would seriously suggest you get out of the rental business and invest in the stock market. A polygraph takes 1-3 hours to administer, not including scheduling and travel requirements, and costs hundreds of dollars.

    And your subject line mentions COVID, but I don't see any question or comment relating to that.

    If I were a renter, I would turn and run.

     Nathan,

    You are entitled to your opinion. My purpose with the post was to find some serious answers to my questions and or some points for me to consider going forward. 

    I have been in this business well over 10 years. I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly concerning tenants. I've had to evict three and hope to never have to do it again as it is emotional for me as well as for them. 

    If you have something constructive to add or to suggest I am welcome to hearing that, but otherwise please keep your negative comments to yourself. 

    There is no need to be ugly on this forum because we're all on here to become better at our careers. Wouldn't you agree?

    0Reply
    • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
      5y
      Originally posted by @Linda A Hawkins:
      Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

      If that's a serious suggestion, then I would seriously suggest you get out of the rental business and invest in the stock market. A polygraph takes 1-3 hours to administer, not including scheduling and travel requirements, and costs hundreds of dollars.

      And your subject line mentions COVID, but I don't see any question or comment relating to that.

      If I were a renter, I would turn and run.

       Nathan,

      You are entitled to your opinion. My purpose with the post was to find some serious answers to my questions and or some points for me to consider going forward. 

      I have been in this business well over 10 years. I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly concerning tenants. I've had to evict three and hope to never have to do it again as it is emotional for me as well as for them. 

      If you have something constructive to add or to suggest I am welcome to hearing that, but otherwise please keep your negative comments to yourself. 

      There is no need to be ugly on this forum because we're all on here to become better at our careers. Wouldn't you agree?

      I am serious and I am sorry you feel insulted.

      If you want to polygraph your applicants, you won't have any applicants. That's a pretty simple truth that a dozen or so respondents agree with.

      I manage around 400 rentals (I own 33 myself). My last eviction through the court was in 2014. You can start by increasing your standards to higher credit scores, higher rent:income ratio, or even requiring larger deposits. Or you can tighten your policies to nip problems in the bud quickly. Or you an find creative ways to remove problem tenants that don't involve the court, breaking the law, or rewarding bad tenants.

      A polygraph is not a realistic option.

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  • Jingru Sui
    Real Estate Agent · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 683 posts · 317 votes
    5y

    That's too much admin work! I post a rental listing in Suwanee on a Thursday and received 15 applications over night. I thought just reviewing all the application on time and respond on a timely manner is already time consuming! LOL. you filter out the one that meet all your criteria.　I pick the most qualified on paper, talk to them then call their references. 

    Try meet your tenant, talk to them as well. You'll get a sense of who you want to rent to. 

    0Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y

    @Linda A Hawkins

    I really don't think a polygraph is a reasonable screening tool for tenants. I do far more invasive screening than a lot of the landlords out there. I really go into depth on local court records and social media when I'm looking hard at a candidate. A polygraph can also be beaten. I don't think this is a reasonable alternative method to screen candidates for a house or apartment.

    1Reply
  • Mike Dymski
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y

    You want the truth from your residents.  But not from @Nathan Gesner...

    8Reply
  • Linda A Hawkins
    OP
    Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    Thank you Nathan G.

    I appreciate those of you who gave constructive input and valuable insights to consider. 

    Mike Dymski your comment added no value to an educational forum such as Bigger Pockets, nor my post.  Did your comment enrich the readers? Did your comment come from a place of helping a fellow Bigger Pockets poster? Some possible things to consider Mike Dymski before trying to discredit another human being.

    What I am hearing is that I need to be more stealth in my approach, so it sounds like I need to be more of a private investigator! I can do that too.

    0Reply
    • Joe SplitrockPro Member
      Moderator
      Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
      5y
      Originally posted by @Linda A Hawkins:

      Thank you Nathan G.

      I appreciate those of you who gave constructive input and valuable insights to consider. 

      Mike Dymski your comment added no value to an educational forum such as Bigger Pockets, nor my post.  Did your comment enrich the readers? Did your comment come from a place of helping a fellow Bigger Pockets poster? Some possible things to consider Mike Dymski before trying to discredit another human being.

      What I am hearing is that I need to be more stealth in my approach, so it sounds like I need to be more of a private investigator! I can do that too.

      @Linda A Hawkins I realize you are new here, so I will share with you that @Mike Dymski and @Nathan Gesner are both regular posters in these forums and both provide high value. What Mike provided here was humor, something that the world actually needs more of. I assure you Mike made a joke and Nathan knows it is a joke. 

      I honestly sense that your tone is very serious. Maybe too serious, indicating some stress. I actually thought your suggestion of a polygraph was a joke originally. Having been in these forums daily for years, I have never once heard any of the thousands of landlords suggest a polygraph. No professional property manager or apartment operator would every consider such extreme measures. It is not even logical to believe a potential tenant would agree to this. They would think the landlord was crazy. 

      Before you tell me to stop my negativity, I will clarify that being honest with you is not being negative. Just because you don't want to hear something, doesn't mean it isn't true. That requires unbiased self reflection to acknowledge your thinking may be "off the tracks."

      In my experience the best indicator or tenant responsibility is good credit. If a tenant has a clean and responsible credit report, they will pay on time and keep the property relatively clean. Another indicator of responsibility is employment history. Requiring 2 years at current company or in current profession shows they can consistently hold a job. Crazy people who don't pay rent generally can't hold jobs and have bad credit. It is really that simple. All this nonsense about polygraphs comes off sounding crazy. I get that you are frustrated, but abandoning logic isn't the solution to your problem.

      3Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    5y

    If a landlord wanted me to take a covid test , or show proof of having the shots and then wanted a lie detector test , I would run for the hills while laughing my *** off . Credit score , employment history , criminal background check and social media give more than enough info . 

    2Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y

    @Linda A Hawkins - No one was insulting you or being mean. A sense of humor would go a long way towards solving some of your issues. Mike and Nathan are smart guys. You are another poster who comes on here asking for advice, but doesn't really want any unless it agrees with your already formed viewpoint.

    But if you want more advice, here it is....forget Polygraph testing. Increase your screening standards if you are having problems with tenants. Forget Covid testing too....I don't know anyone who would agree to that....

    2Reply
  • Linda A Hawkins
    OP
    Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    Joe Splitrock, 

    You are right I am new to posting on here. You are also right that my post has a serious tone. I am not on this forum for joking. Whether or not you believe the discussion needed to lighten up, you are welcome to your own opinion.

    What I am not privey to is the prior joking relationship between Mike D and Nathan, and it doesn't even matter to me. 

    Nor does it matter to me if they bring value to the site. All I know is the experience I have had with this post.If either of them were joking at my expense, I take issue with that. 

    With some of of the answers I received, I doubt I will even post again. I thought this forum was to help each other out in our prospective careers not to be bullied by the good ole boys if they don't agree with my stance. That includes you Joe.

    In the past, I have spoke highly of this site. Now, if someone asks me about creating a post on here to answer a question, I will tell them to forget it unless they want to possibly be the butt of someone's joke and or not taken seriously. I was on here to learn. 

    I have thanked the people that gave different points of view, if done respectfully. The last post I received was a man that I reported for talking to me about porn.

    What a horrible experience this has been. 

    Linda Hawkins CPS                            CEO and Founder Haven Manor Inc 

    0Reply
    • Joe SplitrockPro Member
      Moderator
      Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
      5y
      Originally posted by @Linda A Hawkins:

      Joe Splitrock, 

      You are right I am new to posting on here. You are also right that my post has a serious tone. I am not on this forum for joking. Whether or not you believe the discussion needed to lighten up, you are welcome to your own opinion.

      What I am not privey to is the prior joking relationship between Mike D and Nathan, and it doesn't even matter to me. 

      Nor does it matter to me if they bring value to the site. All I know is the experience I have had with this post.If either of them were joking at my expense, I take issue with that. 

      With some of of the answers I received, I doubt I will even post again. I thought this forum was to help each other out in our prospective careers not to be bullied by the good ole boys if they don't agree with my stance. That includes you Joe.

      In the past, I have spoke highly of this site. Now, if someone asks me about creating a post on here to answer a question, I will tell them to forget it unless they want to possibly be the butt of someone's joke and or not taken seriously. I was on here to learn. 

      I have thanked the people that gave different points of view, if done respectfully. The last post I received was a man that I reported for talking to me about porn.

      What a horrible experience this has been. 

      Linda Hawkins CPS                            CEO and Founder Haven Manor Inc 

      It matters when people bring value to the forums. We have a rule, "give more than you take". If we only had people asking questions and nobody answering questions, the forums would die quickly. 

      People are volunteering their time to help you. Getting advice you don't agree with it not being bullied. Saying that is insensitive to the thousands of children who are bullied and tormented. 

      Go ahead and require a polygraph if you wish. They take several hours to administer and cost $300-$800. No other property manager requires this, so you will be the only one. That could make it hard for you to fill vacancies, because applying for your property will be expensive, time consuming and highly invasive.  

      I think it would be easier if you just adopted common screening practices:

      - Run credit report and require minimum credit score of 650 and on time payment history

      - Require over 2 years employment in current job or current profession.

      - Require monthly household income of 3X rent

      - Require two positive landlord references

      - Run criminal, eviction, sex offender and judgement reports.

      If you did these things, a polygraph would not be necessary. These are more common approaches to screening. Survey 100 property managers and they will doing something similar.

      I do hope you decide to continue using these forums and over time you give back, meaning you answer questions instead of just asking questions. Threatening to bad mouth the forums is pretty rotten, when you have gotten solid (free) advice from many people. I understand you feel frustrated and attacked. That was not my intent and I apologize that it came across that way. I believe polygraphs are a mistake, but we can agree to disagree. 

      There are many wonderful women and men on these forums who give back tirelessly to help fellow landlords. I hope you can see that value and continue to engage here.

      4Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y

    Well, bye.......

    2Reply
  • Jim KalishPro Member
    Real Estate Investor · Matthews, NC · Member since 2017 · 219 posts · 173 votes
    5y

    @Linda A Hawkins I can tell you are frustrated.  And if you are having a bad run of tenants I can certainly understand.  I'm sure you put in a great deal of effort in getting your places ready for the new tenant and all you are asking for in return is for them to pay their rent on time and respect the property.  I know that's what I expect.  But I would surprised if anyone were to agree to anyhting beyond the background checks we all do.  We have certain criteria we us beyond the background checks.   One of the most telling things is when you verify employment and previous rental history.  When you get a business phone number or a rental office phone number, confirm it for yourself.  You may actually be calling Uncle Bob who is going to tell you the person is a great tenant.  When in reality if you actually got through to the true rental office you might find out they were routinely late or to the actual employer and find out they were just fired or quit.  I noticed a few people suggest looking at social media.  And to the best of my knowledge there isn't any law keeping from doing this.  But this can be a slippery slope.  Despite the fact that this wouldn't be the case it could be misconstrued that a decision was based on something that could be considered discriminatory.  So be very careful if you go down this road.  Here's a good site for more thoughts. https://www.apartmentlist.com/...  But as others have said, once you narrow it down go with your gut.  If you get a bad feeling then keep looking.  Just remember to keep it consistent and bove board.

    0Reply
  • Linda A Hawkins
    OP
    Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    Thank you, Jim Kalish. Your well thought out answers, and respectful tone is refreshing. You have made some very valid points to consider. 

    Respectfully,

    Linda Hawkins CPS                         CEO and Founder Haven Manor Inc 

    0Reply
  • Jim KalishPro Member
    Real Estate Investor · Matthews, NC · Member since 2017 · 219 posts · 173 votes
    5y

    Thanks Linda. Best of luck. 

    0Reply
  • Leah LaRue
    Member since 2018 · 22 posts · 8 votes
    5y
    Girl bye.
    1Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Linda A Hawkins     I suggest to go back and read each answer a week or two from now. I don't see any disrespectful remarks.  A few contributors are very direct and they would probably have received  the  "too direct " criticism in some other professions (I have) but you came for answers and they told you what they think.  The tone of a post is sometimes written different then it is read.  I hope you continue to post because you can get meaningful advice from very experienced people but it isn't a forum for everyone. 

    3Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Linda A Hawkins

    In my experience, 95% of tenants lie. So just assume they do.

    And for what’s its worth- @Joe Splitrock @Mike Dymski and @Nathan G. are some of the most respected guys on here.

    We all usually don’t pull punches and tell it like it is.

    3Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Matt M.:

    @Linda A Hawkins


    We all usually don’t pull punches and tell it like it is.

     Apparently not what she was looking for......

    1Reply
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