Hard Money Flips, Out of State, or Buy and Hold

Hard Money Flips, Out of State, or Buy and Hold

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 5 votes

Hello BPers,

Thought I'd post this in the LA forums as well to get any advice from local LA investors

My wife and I recently purchased our primary residence in Silver Lake and did a pretty extensive remodel, however, I am now in the market for an investment property, as a SF residence does not provide any cash flow!

I have been reading books, the BP forums, as well as listening to different podcasts, however I have been having a hard time deciding what I should do for my first deal. I've been in contact with several agents and wholesalers from the Los Angeles area as well as the Dallas / Fort Worth area to look at the various opportunities.

My wife and I have about 150k that we can invest as well as additional funds for any rehabs. Here are the different strategies I've been leaning towards.

1. Hard Money Flips - I've been talking to one of my dad's realtors and his strategy is pretty solid. He essentially finds rehab homes, mainly foreclosure properties, connects you with his hard money lender (20% down, 2 points, 10% interest), connects you with one of his contractors, and then will list the property for sale. He provides a rehab estimate as well as ARV comps. From the listings I've seen, typical purchase prices are right around 500k, with an average profit of about 50k after all rehab, holding costs and agent commissions. With the hard money loan, it would be closer to 25k.

2. Out of State - I've also been in contact with several wholesalers in the DFW area. One of my friends has been quite successful there, starting only about a year ago. He has purchased 2 single families as well as a multi and has done quite well with them. I would either flip or buy and hold with his connections, depending on the property. However, because the DFW market is on fire right now, so it has been quite difficult finding any properties that meet my criteria. I have been on the forums quite a bit lately and have read about many other cities with higher cash flow and flips with better potential.

3. Buy and Hold Multifamily - The last strategy I've been considering is to buy an hold a multifamily, preferably a 4-plex, near the Los Angeles area. However after analyzing many 4units, they have mostly been negative cash flow even if I purchase rehab properties. With this, I have come across a few issues as well. First of all, I only have limited capital. I do not really want to sink all of my capital into buying a multi family, as it would take quite a while to save up to do another deal. Secondly, the rent control issue in Los Angeles. I have been looking mostly at post 1978 properties due to this as well as unincorporated matters, but the prices definitely reflect that they are non rent controlled. I have also been looking into non rent controlled areas such as Inglewood, San Bernardino, and Long Beach, however, I don't the area as well.

I have been researching and thinking about the following for quite some time, however due to the wealth of knowledge on the forums, I wanted to ask to see everyone's thoughts. I would love to hear any feedback on the following strategies or if there is anything that I might be missing. Thank you for reading through the long post, and would greatly appreciate any advice!

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Real Estate Investor & Consultant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 620 posts · 386 votes
9y

@Sam Choi I'd recommend options 1 and 3. I feel if you are new to investing, you should invest where you are. LA is great for flipping with HMLs and for buy and hold as the market is strong and solid. The 4 unit is the smallest I'd do if I were you. 

As an LA investor, I'm here if you ever want to tap my brain. 

Onwards!

sjw

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  • Investor/Realtor · Hoover, AL · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 459 votes
    9y

    @Sam Choi...All are good options.  I started out with Buy/Hold , then Turn Keys, now I'm moving into Flips.(Got my RE license in AL/GA)  It depends on what works for you.  Whatever you do, TAKE ACTION..You can never learn it all and sometimes we over analyze...I learn something new everyday...GL

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 86 posts · 21 votes
    9y

    Hello sam,

    I am an LA resident and Fort Worth investor. I live right up the road in Highland Park. Lets connect and I can tell you what I know. 

    Best,

    Tom

  • Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 37 votes
    9y

    @Sam Choi @Tom Camarda I'm a local currently in Korea Town.  Would love to connect with you as well.  I've been exploring out of state investment.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    @Rolanda Eldridge Hi Rolanda, thanks for the reply! I definitely agree with you. I've been interested in RE since I was 18, but didn't really pursue it due to work and the lack of capital. Now that I have some capital to start off, I have been actively pursuing deals. I started getting serious about 7 months ago and am ready to do my first deal! Were all of your deals in AL and GA? 

    @Tom Camarda Hi Tom, thanks for the reply! Just sent you a colleague request. That's great! I've been driving through Highland Park quite a bit. The neighborhood is definitely booming right now. Would definitely like to connect with you and pick your brain. Are you currently investing in the LA area at all, or only out of state?

    @James You Hi Kee, thanks for the reply! A lot of my friends live out in Ktown. Send you a colleague request as well.

  • Investor/Realtor · Hoover, AL · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 459 votes
    9y

    @Sam Choi...Mostly AL..I'm expanding to GA....Investors are buying AL.  Let me know if you decide to invest out of state...

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    @Rolanda Eldridge I definitely will! I've personally never researched the AL and GA markets, but I will definitely keep them in mind. Thank you!

  • Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2016 · 378 posts · 307 votes
    9y

    I'd highly recommend looking just north of Los Angeles County.  There are still plenty of places in Central/Southern California that support cash flowing multi-family, such as neighboring Kern County.

  • Jo-Ann LapinPro Member
    Loan Officer · Tustin, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 713 votes
    9y

    Everyone here has really good feedback for you. Just keep in mind whatever decision you make you should try and find closer to you home and also make sure you have a cushion for what can come up with the rental. Central ca is a good area to focus as well as Sacramento. Hope this helps.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    @Max Gradowitz Thanks for the suggestions! Am looking into the listings now! 

    @Jo-Ann Lapin Yes, this thread has been very helpful for me. After reading everyone's comments, I am definitely looking to find a property that I would be able to drive to. Especially for my first investment. Thank you!

  • Jo-Ann LapinPro Member
    Loan Officer · Tustin, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 713 votes
    9y

    Wise choice. All the best feel free to reach out.

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    9y
    Couldn't find any good one in DFW MLS, are they all off market deals?
  • Investor · Encino, CA · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    Hi @Sam Choi

    Jumping into this late, but would love to hear more about about option 1 through your dad's realtor. Is this open to other clients as well? Seems like a great strategy. 

    Thanks. 

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 122 posts · 35 votes
    9y
    Sam Choi hey Sam! How's it going. Saw your post and wanted to know how it going on your first investment? What did you eventually get into? I'm in a similar situation as you and would love to hear if you've found anything within driving distance? Would love to hear back. Thanks! Jamie G
  • Real Estate Investor & Consultant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 620 posts · 386 votes
    9y

    @Sam Choi I'd recommend options 1 and 3. I feel if you are new to investing, you should invest where you are. LA is great for flipping with HMLs and for buy and hold as the market is strong and solid. The 4 unit is the smallest I'd do if I were you. 

    As an LA investor, I'm here if you ever want to tap my brain. 

    Onwards!

    sjw

  • Flipper/Rehabber · West Hollywood, CA · Member since 2014 · 16 posts · 10 votes
    9y

    @Sam Choi Thanks for starting this thread. I'm in the same position as you-- new to LA but have previously bought and sold properties in Central Texas. How is your first investment working out in Los Angeles?

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 577 posts · 240 votes
    9y
    While it's great that you have 150 grand in the bank you have to figure out how much work you want to do to grow that money and what rate of return would help your lifestyle. For example if you were just looking for some passive income right now so that you can eventually quit your job I would recommend buying turnkey rental properties or by multi family properties that are rented up. In terms of location I would definitely invest out of state with that amount of money. You can do a lot more out of state with 150 grand then you can do here and the returns out of state are way better. Of course you have to do a lot more due diligence in terms of the team in the boots on the ground that you have but I believe that with a little bit of work in finding the right team you can make way better returns than a property here in Los Angeles. I live in Los Angeles and invest solely out of state. I'd love to connect we're always looking for investors to come and work with us on our projects. We would love to include you just shoot me a message and we can meet up.
  • Lender · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2015 · 279 posts · 91 votes
    9y

    Good afternoon, @Sam Choi, and thanks for posting here on FB! With a new loan product available, you can pursue a buy-and-hold project with a "flipper mentality". Let me explain. Traditionally, hard-money loans were something that were mostly used in the REI community by someone who's looking to flip a property, for obvious reasons. Now, you can get a hard-money loan, purchase the property, do the rehab, and IMMEDIATELY turn around and refinance the HML into a conventional loan for a more standard interest rate. I'm, of course, talking in generalities because each specific case has its own set of unique circumstances, but we're seeing a lot of people who were traditionally flippers altering part of their focus to a buy-and-hold mentality - and they're seeing even greater ROI. Please let me know if we can provide you with more specific information.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    Hey @Bradley De comarmond I've also been considering it. I'm not sure if I mentioned it earlier in this post, but I do have a few buddies investing in the DFW market currently and have done quite well. I have been looking into the last few months. Thanks for the suggestion! And if I can make it out to the meetup, I definitely will. Sounds very interesting

    Hey @Grant Greene Thank you for the information. That sounds very interesting. I may look into that!

  • Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 16 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    Hey @Sam Choi, thanks for the post. Great to hear everyone's feedback. My husband and I are in the Bay Area where prices are ridiculous so we're looking at Sacramento and out of state as well (TX, FL, AZ and UT.) In the LA area, we're told Riverside and San Bernadino are good markets to look into. Good luck in your adventure and hope to cross paths here on BP again. 

  • Professional · Anaheim, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 686 votes
    8y

    @Sam Choi

    Stumbled across your original post and search for out of state properties. Looks like one of the areas you were looking into was DFW, which is a good market. Definitely in top five on my list. The negative is higher property taxes, but not higher than Cleveland, as a percentage. 

    I would imagine that you would be financing any property and put 25% down. This means leverage and the way to go in my book.

    Anyways, do you see my link to a property that will net close to 100k in about a year? Percentage wise, if bought all cash then return 44% in a year, if 25% down, then 170%.

    Terry

  • Real Estate Broker · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 176 posts · 65 votes
    8y

    Sam,

    Just came across this original post and wanted to offer the perspective of a long-term buy and hold strategy right here in the LA market.  

    All too often the significant appreciation in LA is overlooked in favor of cash flow with OOS investments.  The faster appreciation in So Cal allow you to re-leverage at the appropriate times to significantly build your portfolio.   

    Its a long term play as you can have both elements of cash flow and appreciation.  It takes longer, but you will supercharge your returns in the long run towards the goal of building net worth.

    Keep educating yourself with the knowledge from the BP community and you will find the right strategy that works for you. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2016 · 85 posts · 19 votes
    8y

    @Sam Choi @Jamie Garcia Hi just came across this and jumped into this late.  How are your investments now? The sacramento and LA market have appreciated a lot since last year

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 476 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Sam Choi:

    Hello BPers,

    Thought I'd post this in the LA forums as well to get any advice from local LA investors

    My wife and I recently purchased our primary residence in Silver Lake and did a pretty extensive remodel, however, I am now in the market for an investment property, as a SF residence does not provide any cash flow!

    I have been reading books, the BP forums, as well as listening to different podcasts, however I have been having a hard time deciding what I should do for my first deal. I've been in contact with several agents and wholesalers from the Los Angeles area as well as the Dallas / Fort Worth area to look at the various opportunities.

    My wife and I have about 150k that we can invest as well as additional funds for any rehabs. Here are the different strategies I've been leaning towards.

    1. Hard Money Flips - I've been talking to one of my dad's realtors and his strategy is pretty solid. He essentially finds rehab homes, mainly foreclosure properties, connects you with his hard money lender (20% down, 2 points, 10% interest), connects you with one of his contractors, and then will list the property for sale. He provides a rehab estimate as well as ARV comps. From the listings I've seen, typical purchase prices are right around 500k, with an average profit of about 50k after all rehab, holding costs and agent commissions. With the hard money loan, it would be closer to 25k.

    2. Out of State - I've also been in contact with several wholesalers in the DFW area. One of my friends has been quite successful there, starting only about a year ago. He has purchased 2 single families as well as a multi and has done quite well with them. I would either flip or buy and hold with his connections, depending on the property. However, because the DFW market is on fire right now, so it has been quite difficult finding any properties that meet my criteria. I have been on the forums quite a bit lately and have read about many other cities with higher cash flow and flips with better potential.

    3. Buy and Hold Multifamily - The last strategy I've been considering is to buy an hold a multifamily, preferably a 4-plex, near the Los Angeles area. However after analyzing many 4units, they have mostly been negative cash flow even if I purchase rehab properties. With this, I have come across a few issues as well. First of all, I only have limited capital. I do not really want to sink all of my capital into buying a multi family, as it would take quite a while to save up to do another deal. Secondly, the rent control issue in Los Angeles. I have been looking mostly at post 1978 properties due to this as well as unincorporated matters, but the prices definitely reflect that they are non rent controlled. I have also been looking into non rent controlled areas such as Inglewood, San Bernardino, and Long Beach, however, I don't the area as well.

    I have been researching and thinking about the following for quite some time, however due to the wealth of knowledge on the forums, I wanted to ask to see everyone's thoughts. I would love to hear any feedback on the following strategies or if there is anything that I might be missing. Thank you for reading through the long post, and would greatly appreciate any advice!

     Hey Sam, as far as your situation, I definitely like the idea of out of state. DFW is great, but like you said, it is pricing up, and there are less deals than maybe a year ago even. I have property here in LA but have been looking pretty seriously into Cleveland. Happy to chat about what I've found out about the market so far.  

    As far as multifamily, may I suggest looking in LA County rather than just city. Inglewood is absurd because of the stadium,  but I do think there may still be deals with some cash flow  (and definitely appreciation), in Hawthorne, Gardena, possibly Carson, and if you are up for it, Compton and some unincorporated areas nearby. The market is tight BUT I think there are deals there. 

    Lastly, what about buy and hold of a single family, in appreciating areas in LA County? I get the downsides for lots of folks, but I ah pursuing this right now (in the South Bay) and feeling good about things. Again, happy to chat about it sometime. 

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