Morris Invest in Jacksonville

[Joey Hamaoui]

Hi all,

recently during an initial meeting with a potential investor I learned that @Account Closed's Morris Invest was offering turn-key properties in our area. I was unaware that they were even in our market as a turnkey provider. This is the first time someone has brought up a turnkey company in Jacksonville, FL to me that wasn't JWB.

I'd be very happy to connect with anyone who knows more about this. I'd love to learn more about how large the operation is, how they are as far as working with agents, what their track record is here and if it's worthwhile recommending them for investors that won't quite fit our model but need a turnkey provider.

Any and all insight is helpful.

[Matt K.]

You'd have to be insane to purchase Morris anything with the on going drama in Indy 

[Ryan E.]

@Matt K. I CANNOT believe people are still considering this company. I keep seeing this pop up in the forums and if people would do an ounce of searching on this forum they would see nothing but red flag after red flag. 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Ryan E.:

@Matt K. I CANNOT believe people are still considering this company. I keep seeing this pop up in the forums and if people would do an ounce of searching on this forum they would see nothing but red flag after red flag. 

 seems to me the buyers that have been totally bamboozled are being pretty passive.. I mean just look at rip off report for much less things.. like hey this retail company sells luke warm coffee  LOL..

here you have people taking loss's in the thousands to multi thousands and really not a lot of them are doing much unless there is a behind the scenes things going on like maybe a few of them have banded together and lawyered up and the lawyers are saying stay off of social media.. that type of thing..

But the reason companies like this keep steaming along is money is quite large and unless some regulator shuts them down.. like what happened to Marquis properties .. they will just keep doing what they do.. BP who cares we are a tiny fraction of a community.. most of the folks that buy from Morris probably don't know about it and MOrris is good at telling people up front don't go to social media those sites are full of negative nellies.. LOL

[Andrew Johnson]

Ryan E. For what it’s worth, I think VERY few new people really do search on the forums. When someone does and asks a follow-up (reinvigorating the thread) it’s almost a license for the other new people to jump in with a question. For heavy users of the site like Jay Hinrichs you just see it over and over again. And he’s right in that it wouldn’t surprise me if the “Jacksonville rep” says “don’t listen to those Indy stories, it’s a completely different market”. So, naturally, those people then come on forums to ask about Jacksonville. I mean, half the ecosystem here has no clue that commercial debt is different than the loan they use for their own home!

I’d also argue it’s actually a healthy thing for BP as a platform. The last thing you want is new people afraid to ask questions. Then then threads die, newbies are reluctant to search, and newbies end up uninformed.

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Andrew Johnson  I think the major issue with Morris based on feedback from actual clients of his.

also a few homes I personally viewed and my talks with local investors and wholesalers in Indy.

what ever is going on with that company.

People have been wronged.

1. they put up money in good faith for rehabs that were never done.

2. for whatever reason and some of the local PM's have made statements they thinks its a Ponzi

    but houses that are vacant are getting rent checks and the owners are told they are occupied when they are not

3. after close continuing to get code violations and you know living on the coast you get a code violation it freaks you out how are you going to deal with it when the PM won't return the calls or E mails and Morris just says they are common and we are working on it.

I mean forget about the gross misrepresentation of the neighborhoods and tenant base LOL.. this is on the buyers for not doing more research or as you state just not really knowing what they don't know and believing what they are told. IE C and D class is easier to manage and run than A class.. just pretty strange really for anyone who is in the know.. but these buyers are mainly first timers and of course are glazed over by the pitch and the thought that Morris has to big of a rep to do anything like this at least knowingly. But this is not the first company to come into the hood and do this and it won't be the last. As long as those houses are standing someone is going to take a swing at 50k duplex's and 30 to 40k SFR's in the roughest areas of town and think they can do it better.

[James Wise]

I have not personally done business with Morris Invest nor have I spoken directly to anyone who has. But based upon the numerous threads here on BP I would say that anyone buying a property out of state, especially from this particular operator should make sure they are getting a 3rd party inspection along with an appraisal.

[Jay Hinrichs]

@James Wise  these are ALL cash buyers and company would not let them get inspections and or appraisals literally from what others have posted. .the company simply said no we don't allow that we move our inventory too quickly for that

blah blah blah..

like I said its one thing to know what your doing in that asset class and go into it.. its another to buy a home send 10 to 20 k for rehab and literally nothing was done or just a little paint and crappy carpet :)   it is one of the more amazing things I have seen in the last 20 years in the space.

[Ryan E.]

Originally posted by @Andrew Johnson:

Ryan E. For what it’s worth, I think VERY few new people really do search on the forums. When someone does and asks a follow-up (reinvigorating the thread) it’s almost a license for the other new people to jump in with a question. For heavy users of the site like Jay Hinrichs you just see it over and over again. And he’s right in that it wouldn’t surprise me if the “Jacksonville rep” says “don’t listen to those Indy stories, it’s a completely different market”. So, naturally, those people then come on forums to ask about Jacksonville. I mean, half the ecosystem here has no clue that commercial debt is different than the loan they use for their own home!

I’d also argue it’s actually a healthy thing for BP as a platform. The last thing you want is new people afraid to ask questions. Then then threads die, newbies are reluctant to search, and newbies end up uninformed.

 I agree it’s a great thing for people to ask questions. I’m actually blown away at how great BP is in general...people come on all the time and ask the same questions over and over every day but the good people of BP patiently answer those same questions all the time. All it would take is a quick search and you’d have reading material for days. As it relates to MI you can’t be dishonest in one market and honest in another. When it comes to out of state investing I think and really believe that its really about your “team” on the ground vs the market itself. If you are working with honest, good people you can make money in probably just about any market....even those pesky high tax, landlord unfriendly states. 

What boggles my mind is that there are still people here on BP, with all this information at their finger tips, still considering this company. About a year ago my good friend listened to the podcast with Clayton and was interested. I said, hey man, go check out these threads on BP and that was the end of that! 

When I’m looking into an out of state operation part of my vetting process is searching on BP as well as reading most, if not all, of the posts the owner/member of the company has made on BP. It has helped me to be able to get a better feel for that person and their company. 

[Andrew Johnson]

@Ryan E. I completely agree that you can’t be honest in one state and dishonest in another.  I have no idea how all of that works: company owned vs. franchises vs. affiliates.  Either way, your brand/reputation always skews to the lowest common denominator.  Which I think is why it’s great people ask about it.  I have no clue how it’s being pitched, skewed, clouded, etc.  I can’t imagine the Jacksonville team is shouting “LOOK AT OUR SUCCESS IN OTHER MARKETS!” from the rooftop.  Let alone, “Look at what our clients say on BiggerPockets!”  Definitely would love to be a fly on the wall for multiple deals in multiple states just to hear how it’s all dealt with, ignored, responded to, etc.  Not sure why I’m so oddly fascinated by it. 🤷🏻♂️ 

[Ryan E.]

@Andrew Johnson it’s funny you say that because I’m oddly fascinated as well. I always click on the MI threads. Just today I was thinking about calling Morris and acting like I hadn’t read any of this just to see what his pitch is and how he responds to concerns. 

[Ritch Bonisa]

@Ryan E. & @Parker G.  

I encourage some of the professionals on this site to sign up for the Morris Invest stuff, go through the process yourself and see what they are selling.  It should be of note that the concept being sold is coming from Morris Invest - marketing comes from Morris Invest.  I signed up, I've seen what they are doing.   

If you are an insider and you get the emails and see the videos, you work in the local market every day, and you also talk on a weekly basis to those who've "experienced the process" - it all makes you want to throw up.  My guys are out there in the field on a daily basis.  We've done drive bys on some of these properties. We know which ones have been rehabbed, which ones look vacant, etc. 

For months, I have been getting 1-2 investors per week calling me and asking if we can help sell their property.  After a few questions, checking some addresses, neighborhoods, etc.  In the end, I find out it was a Morris Invest client and connected with whatever property management company they happen to be pushing things to at the time.  Thus far, we have always said, "NO, sorry we can't help you."  I do feel bad that we can't help them. 

We have certain criteria for properties we will and will not deal with - this goes for sales and for rehabs.  So far it has been impossible to be involved with these properties and/or rehabs. Many of these bad situations are just a revolving door and honestly, I don't want to play a role in passing a bad situation on to someone else. 

It seems to me. There are 3 parts to this pipeline.  

• Supply - they need a big supplier of properties.  
• Marketing - attract attention of novices with money (create perception, create demand).  
• Point of sale - Local PM - handles final sale & management.  

Which parts can be changed to continue this model and which part can not be changed?  Where is the common denominator in this?

2 of these parts have been changed and/or altered recently.  They had also been changed before all of this ever came up.  There has been one constant in the process.  

Now, I'm just a dumb farm kid from Indiana, but it does seem to me the common denominator does not have to be market specific. 

Whence does the fish rot?

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Ritch Bonisa  rescuing a bad situation as OP and morris has put these folks into.. can be pretty risky you now become the target.. I am hoping some of these folks when they lick their wounds and move on from the night mare  don't blame the new people and throw them under the bus as being the ones bearing the bad news..

tough situation for all involved.

being in this space for almost 20 years this is really something.. WOW.

[Todd Burton]

As an Indiana licensed Boker and investor for 19+ years I have contact with many local vendors, property managers and investors. I've seen many of the properties myself. The story is always the same so let's not sugar coat this, Clayton Morris is a scam artist regardless of the market. If you buy through him you will lose money and add a lot of anger and frustration to your life. 100% guaranteed he will be the subject of a future episode of American Greed.

[Andy Rumple]

As a wholesaler I have always tried to help owners including those
in bad situations. It is true that sometimes those who have been
ripped off will lash out at the first person to tell them the truth but
that's ok. It is to be expected. Just be honest, tell them where they are at
and then help them. If they are beyond help move on..........

[Mark Wheeler]

When I talked to them in Feb 2018 I was told they no longer deal in properties in Jacksonville although the videos say they do.  Also, the videos mention most of the homes are in the $40K - $50K range, the sales rep said they are no longer that low and they were sending me listings in a price range $20K higher.  They also told me - if you see one you like you have to jump on it immediately (that marketing ploy of "sense of urgency".

Thank goodness my 401K rollover took longer than I expected - I haven't been sent a listing email for over a month.   No contact whatsoever to see how I'm doing on the rollover.   Makes me feel like the one phone call was talking to a boiler room phone jockey.

I think the videos are great and full of good information.  But after vetting the turnkey company, NO WAY will I use them.  Way too many negative reviews.  Compare Ohio Cashflow (Engel Ramora - listen to BP podcast #89) reviews - stellar here on BP, on Turnkey reviews, and on Toledo Ohio BBB website.  

[Edward S. Briand]

@Todd Burton is 100% correct. This is a complete scam. I purchased a home in Jacksonville in September last year. I was skeptical and did as much research at the time as I could. I decided to purchase a single property. This was clearly a mistake. No renovations were completed and the home is worth perhaps $15k. I have engaged a local Jacksonville property manager, evicted a non-paying tenant, and need to decide whether to renovate or just sell as is. Although a near complete loss is frustrating. It's the amount of time I have spent on this property the with no real return that is most annoying and costly.

[Jeff Schechter]

Oceanpointe (MI's supplier) has re-invented itself as Freeportinvest.com. Operating out of the same two markets: Jacksonville and Indianapolis.