Knob and Tube Electrical
So I'm looking at my first investment property. Still pretty new and in the learning phase. Looking in the Cleveland area and I'm noticing a lot of knob and tube wiring. Looking into the BRRRR method. Currently looking at a 2 story 3 bed 1 bath 1700 sq ft house that needs complete electrical update. I have no idea how much something like this would cost. Can anyone recommend a good remodel contractor in the area? Mostly looking at the East side of Cleveland. Thoughts? Tips?
Also I realize I may note be even asking the right questions. This is my first post. Take it easy on me! haha
Thank you!
You do not need a full rewire just because of existing knob and tube. K&T is par for the course around here and as long as it is functioning normally then you just need to make sure that you do not have 3 pronged outlets being used for ungrounded lines. Hopefully you can find a good contractor through your agent/pm because most people are not willing to give up their contractor.
Thank you for the info Denis!!
@John Solis Hey John, similar to what @Denis Woosley said, I do not believe you need a full re-wiring. I recently purchased a duplex on the west side of cleveland with knob and tube wiring/a fuse box panel. I just had 3 prob outlets in the kitchen grounded (probably around $75-$100 per outlet I believe). If you need to add a breaker panel to the basement, I can tell you how much that cost me as well.
Originally posted by @Tyler Scruggs:@John Solis Hey John, similar to what @Denis Woosley said, I do not believe you need a full re-wiring. I recently purchased a duplex on the west side of cleveland with knob and tube wiring/a fuse box panel. I just had 3 prob outlets in the kitchen grounded (probably around $75-$100 per outlet I believe). If you need to add a breaker panel to the basement, I can tell you how much that cost me as well.
How much on the breaker boxes? I'm currently buying a duplex on the west side with knob and tube as well and trying to figure out CapEx on upgrading the panels.
JPM
@John Solis There have been many reports here on BP of people unable to get property insurance wieh K&T is present, so check with your agent.
K&T was perfectly functional for decades, but at this age, the cloth insulation on the wires is often deteriorating - especially if someone has added insulation over the wire.
Generally, these homes have fuse boxes, not breakers. A risk of fuse boxes in a rental is that a tenant may keep putting in larger fuses or coins, which can eventually result in fire.
Some of these homes have "outlawed" breaker panels that most electricians refuse to work on and insurance companies may use to refuse coverage.
- Federal Pacific. Fire hazard.
- Some, but not all Zinsco panels. Fire hazard.
- Split Bus panels. Identify by up to 6 breakers labeled as "Main". Not a fire hazard, but 40+ years old and no longer gode-compliant.
For a house your size, estimate $8,000 - $10,000 for a complete rewire. And absent specific competence in this activity, this is not a DIY job. You might try to push for a price concession.
Good luck!
@John Solis. Knob & Tube is not bad by definition, if it is in good shape, but that is rare. Often you can see the insulation cracking, and you will also often see improper splices. I have seen it cause huge price increase for insurance or even make it difficult to get insurance. I would recommend that you budget to replace all knob and tube in the basement, because that is affordable. Also budget to put in breaker panel if you have fuse boxes. And as someone mentioned, make sure you remove any three prong outlets that are not actually grounded... or get them grounded. This is usually pretty easy on the first floor. Sometimes, I will compromise and ground one or more outlets in each room. For sure make certain to install GFIC in bathrooms and kitchen. This is not an option. Sometimes you can do some updating on the 2nd floor by running a circuit or two through the ceiling.
One of the concerns you have is that tenants will run window A/C units, hair blowers, and use six outlet extensions any of which will overload old circuits and present a fire hazard. None of these things were around when the K&T was installed.
Best of luck
Bob Collett, PM Cleveland
The problem with Knob and Tube wiring I've run into in many homes is there was no electric ground wire and this can be a serious problem.
The second problem is I will bet there is nowhere near enough wall receptacles in the living room or bedroom for the number of devices people use today.
The third problem is there is most-likely not enough circuits in the kitchen since people have more things today than when the wiring was installed e.g. microwaves, garbage disposers and more light fixtures in the ceilings.
I live in a building built in 1904 with Knob and Tube and not one wall receptacle is grounded and everyone gets shocked when we touch anything metal e.g. the metal case on our desktop computers.
One last problem is; it is sometimes much easier to purchase a property that is not up to par, but when you go to sell it the buyer's inspector may find a lot of faults with the wiring and sometimes mortgage lenders want up-to-date wiring and many don't even like aluminum wiring.
I would figure no less than $12,000 to $15,000 to re-wire a house and maybe a few thousand dollars more if you need to upgrade the electrical panel to 100 or more amps.