Anderson Business Advisors
I'm interested in talking to anyone that has hired Anderson Business Advisors for help with asset protection strategies. This is the firm founded by author Clint Coons who wrote Asset Protection for Real Estate Investors.
I'd like to hear about your experiences, good or bad. I am considering having them help with the creation of LLCs and land trusts for my buy-and-hold investment properties. They were not able to provide references due to client confidentiality.
I just had my call with them yesterday. There was a lot of interesting things that came out of it. I'm glad I've done enough research that I had some kind of idea of what to expect, otherwise I would have been completely overwhelmed with the vast amount of information, terms, and ideas being thrown around.
I'm still have other firms I want to contact, but the all-in-house aspect of having advisors, tax teams and accounting teams all together is appealing.
The person we spoke to also advised a C-Corp for the holding company, but I told her we were planning on staying very passive and had no interest in dealing with the overhead of running a C-Corp. We draw income, insurance, 401ks, etc from our FT jobs, so the benefits to starting a corp at this time are minimal.
I think if someone has ambitious plans and wants to move fast, their larger plans (Platinum/Titanium) make sense. The problem is "best laid plans". One might think they are going to go from 0 to 50 doors in 5 years, but things happen; if you don't get there, you may have just sunk a lot of money into something that is going to eat up any profit you would have otherwise made.
Oh, and I did ask them a bit about this. I asked why someone at Anderson would recommend creating WI LLCs. They said there would be no reason unless there were properties own in Wisconsin (WI) or some other unusual situation. Coming back to read the original thread, I think maybe Karen H meant Wyoming (WY)?
I also asked why they preferred WY over NV. The answer was just that it's cheaper. And there was a slightly better hold up of a particular law in WY.
Originally posted by @Karen H.:
what's the best way to protect from injury lawsuits or frivolous tenant cases? I currently have umbrella insurance and 2 CA LLCs with a holding company in NV. I signed up with Anderson about 6 yrs ago and that's what they recommended at the time. I called them today because I was tired of paying maintenance fees for my CA LLCs and wanted To dissolve them. Today they advised dissolving my CA LLCs in favor of 2 Land trusts and 2 WI LLCs. They'll all be held by another WI LLC (by transferring my NV holding LLC to WI). Does this sound like a good idea?
I am a newbie and hold no assets in the USA.
Watched lot of Clint videos and they all very informative and decided to book an appointment with them.
One of the staff called me last weekend and asked if I have Tax ID to form an LLC.
Since I live in Sydney, Australia and Agent was not sure if I can get a Tax ID, EIN for myself and asked me to get those 2 first before talking to them.
Earlier this week called direct IRS overseas agents in Australia to discuss Tax ID and they confirmed we don't need one to create an LLC.
My take from this, All staff in Clint office should watch his videos first before taking on any clients.
Originally posted by @Quenton Mullins:
It is. It gives you everything the platinum service offers plus unlimited LLC creations (one property/LLC), personal property Land Trust, Living Trust, Wyoming holding company and a host of other perks for life.
Looking forward to your update on this company and service package.
I bought it's unlimited package back in May. I am very disappointed with its service. During the past month, I am trying to cancel the package and at least get some of my hard earned money. However, I have been kicked around from a so called adviser, its tax department, to legal department. I am very frustrated. I am wondering if anyone has dealt with similar issue before? How did you get your money back?
Just wondering how it is going with Anderson group? I just talked to Seth Perlman today too. I want to know what your experience has been so far....Are you glad you did it? Has he made your life easier? Do you feel safer?
Thanks!
I paid al on Anderson advisor for over 6k about two or three month ago.
All I got so far is frustration , I only need one person to help me switch the membership to an WY LLC . And seems like so far all the client coordinator of law coordinator they assign to me . Has no clue what I am talking about it.
And when I ask for money back they refuse to refund my money . My 6k so far only get me to started an WY LLC.
I will keep everyone update.
Anyone know how to switch a solo Memeber of LLC to WY LLC?
Also for New York area they are very out of touch . Doesn't seems like they have a lot experience with New York or NJ area. They did try to sale and sounds very knowloge when the sales person talked to me . But later I got transfer to a client coordinator or law coordinator . Either they never pick up phone or they don't undestand what I want.
Anyone knows their supervisor number or someone I can talk to get money back?
Original I sign up to protect myself and want to make things simple.
But the more I talked to law coordinator or client coordinator they have I feel the more complicate it get into. I got so lost. And can't even get my money back.
Feel like digging the hole myself .
Also they never pick up the phone . I have to leave voice mail everytime and wait for them to call me back if they ever do call me back.
They do reply to email but I got more confused on the email and can't get anyone on the phone 80% of the time once I become their client .
Anderson Group Update:
I am in the final stages of getting my living trust completed. The consultation with the lawyer was about 45 minutes. It’s a very dark conversation but necessary. This was the last segment of our structure completion.
Anderson did a great job setting up all of our entities without any issue. I have been a little disappointed over the past few days. I ran across two assignment lease option deals and needed some special contracts. I reached out to my advisor and he immediately reached out to the lawyer team. Its been about 4 days and do not have my specialized contracts. I know I am a very impatient person, but in the game of real estate, every second counts. The seller can go cold at any minute.
Pros:
Advisor and staff at Anderson have been very quick to respond to request.
Entities setup in as little as three days (All aspects)
Value: Living Trust, 4 entities out the box for the price
Unlimited entities at my request
Special contract creation = no extra charges
Cons:
First request for special contract over 4 days outstanding
I have only one matter very simple should take less than one hour to do it. But has been 4 days as well and even I express to my advisor is an urgent matter. Is still no even moving to the direction in 4 days. I considers myself patient and very reasonable with expectation since I use to work in law firm myself before. This speed is unacceptable
Thank you so much for your input. I have already gotten my living trust out of the way a while ago, so Seth said he would discount my contract. He said it would cost me $7500. I talked to my CPA about Seth and what he has told. She is super confused and so am I. I am wondering if I should just keep it simple and find a lawyer here and set up my LLC's.
I will provide my two cents later today. I think I can make the mud a little clear. Seth did a great job explaining. Give me a few hours to get my Saturday closed.
Clint Coon’s (Anderson) videos are very informative! The one thing I appreciate is that he explains everything in detail. I’m not sure why it’s necessary to spend so much money to have a company (or individual) set up what’s he’s advising. I think people get overwhelmed with all the information and determine its best to pay someone else to do it…
For example, I did everything on my own. I have 3 residential properties in Idaho, each set up in a separate LLC. I did it all from overseas where I live (as an American) using the Idaho Secretary of State on-line portal identifying my friend who lives in Idaho as my "registered agent" who mailed it in for me. Cost me $100 each LLC. I then applied for IRS EIN # online and had it done in 5 minutes. Secured "Certificate of Existence" from Idaho Sec. of State via their on-line portal for $11 (downloadable pdf) which I then sent as an email attachment to my bank to open the new LLC business bank accounts.
Mr. Coons advises setting up a WY LLC (for anonymity and "charging order" protection). So, I went onto the WY Sec of State website and saw 64 pages of "Registered Agents" listed. I'll review these name with the BBB and others sites then pick one. Happy to pay the $20-$200 fee for their service, and confirm they will do what I need. Setting up these LLCs (in the state where the asset is located and WY) is not difficult.
However, the area I'm feeling unfamiliar with is how the taxes are structured with the WY LLC. Mr. Coons advises setting up the WY LLC as a "partnership," which prepares a 1065. The anonymity protection that WY LLC provides as a holding company files a 1065 in its name and pays you via a K1. It doesn't require you to report those earnings on a SCH E.
This is the only reason I’d seek out Anderson’s service. But I feel confident I can eventually figure it out on my own without having to pay thousands of dollars.
Hello:
It's not all about liability. It's also about maximizing your tax advantages. Also, you may have a very complex setup with major tax ramifications for doing it wrong (SDIRA, Solo 401k's, etc.).
I highly recommend watching Clint's videos on YouTube. Not only do they lay out the rationale behind many of the structures, but it also discusses the tax ramifications. They give you a great primer for it overall, regardless of whether you go with Anderson, your own team, or no one.
Everyone has to make their own decisions about structure, being proactive on maximizing tax advantages through structure, etc.
If your Attorney/CPA/Psychic can save you $5k a year in taxes you didn't need to pay, I think you would be foolish not to talk to a professional.
Bob
Bigger Pockets,
Sorry for my delayed response. My wife just received her all clear, she is cancer FREE!!!
Anderson Group:
Seth and Chance have been outstanding these past few weeks. Actually, they have been waiting on me for a few items. As I mentioned in some of my earlier post, I decided to purchase the Titanium package. It was on sale and included unlimited L.L.C creation.
Seth and Chance were able to get a in house attorney to create a special Lease option agreement for me and the attorney reached out to ensure it met my specifications. This is key! Why....well because most of us will look for deals in a specific region based on our comfort. My region includes 4 states. It would be very expensive for me to have 4 lawyers creating 4 different documents for my special needs.
The business structure that Anderson created for me is fantastic for my business needs. It allows me to write of my insurance premiums from my day time job as a regional at a fortune 500 company. It allows me to create other wealth builder and save tremendously on taxes and other expenses right out the gate!
Ladies and gentlemen, I don't know about you, but I couldn't find anyone to open a C- Corp, 3 L.L.Cs, and a personal Attorney to complete a living trust (Private meeting with my family), role my current home into the business structure and out of my name, serve as my registered agent, collect all of my mail, take all of my phone calls, and unlimited L.L.C creation for the price I paid!
If you try to complete these items on you own, with lawyers who may have limited knowledge, you will most likely pay over 10k and not fully understand what you bought!
Well.....these are my two cents. I know I promised a few of you personal phone calls and/or emails and have not gotten with you. So sorry, was dealing with a family crisis but God got us through! I will be contacting you this week!
As one person put it, what appears to be one glowing thread, however, when that person is the only one who's had any extended experience with Anderson, they've EARNED that credibility. I've watched Clint Coon videos and this guy seems to know what he's talking about. I have no hired Anderson, but am seriously considering it after watching their videos. Think about this, what do you want to hear, how someone who didn't use a firm like Anderson lost everything because they didn't use asset protection? Maybe a not-so-glowing testimonial from someone who didn't have asset protection would benefit us (sarcasm). Most don't look for asset protection or think it's necessary until they get hit with a lawsuit (i.e. mold). In today's lawsuit-trigger-happy society, asset protection is actually a small price to pay as opposed to having my company dissolved or ripped out from under neath me. If a post telling us how they lost everything would give us a testimony of how NOT having asset protection cost them, why wouldn't a post telling how they're company was well structured not benefit us. Sounds like a lot of skeptics to me. But, in the end, those skeptics aren't in my shoes or the ones faced with losing MY company if I get hit with a lawsuit. Watch Clint Coon's videos on youtube and decide for yourselves. Keep this in mind, he knows what he's talking about regardless of whether we think he does or not. Any skepticism here in this forum does not mean he's any less qualified to do his job. The only skepticism it shows is your unwillingness to accept some great asset protection advice or coverage via platinum or any other package. For those questioning LLC's in only certain states, Coon answers that question in one of his own videos. He literally puts himself in the shoes of not only the plaintiff of any possible case, but in the plaintiff's attorneys shoes showing how no attorney would even likely pursue a case with a properly structured LLC in anonymity compliant states and how certain states offer charging order protection. I'm curious as to what the posts on here would be if someone got hit with a law suit and didn't have good asset protection that not only an experienced business law attorney firm can provide, but attorney's that invest in real estate themselves. As I said, no one skeptical person in this forum that's responded is the one who's losing MY real estate investment business if I get hit with a lawsuit. As for the glowing response, I'll take the glowing response (since they're the only one who's had an extended experience with Anderson).
I joined as a platinum member a few months ago after attending one of their conferences offered through Legacy Education. After talking to other Real Estate investors who had memberships with Anderson, I decided to join, because of their positive experience. So far they are Excellent ! great staff , loads of great information that is easy to access. Their attorneys are very easy to talk to , patient and top notch. I highly recommend Anderson Advisors. These guys are know their business and have written some very good books also.
I will add my 2cents as well. I joined their platinum membership and their tax/Book keeping package. One thing that I haven't seen here from other clients is that you can actually negotiate the expensive rates down from what they are at retail. I took their business entity strategy and went to a different attorney to get them all set up for much less because they were a little too expensive in that arena. (However, in retrospect, now that I see how they set everything up and organize it on the site I think that it would have been worth the extra cost to hit the easy button). They still were helpful and are helping me get to the level of organization that I would have had had I had them create my entities so it's not terrible by any stretch of the imagination. When I set up platinum, I negotiated the tax/book keeping package for $2500 vs. $4000 which will last me at least couple of years based on how they set it up and the platinum membership for $500 vs the $2,500 that they advertise. They also let me make payments on that all in $3,000. I have at this point had extensive conversations with the business strategist, the CPA tax manager, the head of book keeping, and a point of contact that helps navigate you around to where you need to go and I have only once received somewhat conflicting advice on the overall strategy, which to me isn't too bad for having that many people collaborating from all different angles. Last what really surprised me on the accounting/book keeping side was if you ask them they will not only help you from a book keeping standpoint, but they will actually help you pull custom reporting from QBO to analyze your financials like a corporate controller would. That was actually sold me.
Outside of one situation when it took a bit longer than I was told to set up all of the book keeping and Quickbooks online, they have been super prompt and responsive to my questions (which was a LOT).
I hope that helps!
Originally posted by @Terrance Thames:
I will add my 2cents as well. I joined their platinum membership and their tax/Book keeping package. One thing that I haven't seen here from other clients is that you can actually negotiate the expensive rates down from what they are at retail. I took their business entity strategy and went to a different attorney to get them all set up for much less because they were a little too expensive in that arena. (However, in retrospect, now that I see how they set everything up and organize it on the site I think that it would have been worth the extra cost to hit the easy button). They still were helpful and are helping me get to the level of organization that I would have had had I had them create my entities so it's not terrible by any stretch of the imagination. When I set up platinum, I negotiated the tax/book keeping package for $2500 vs. $4000 which will last me at least couple of years based on how they set it up and the platinum membership for $500 vs the $2,500 that they advertise. They also let me make payments on that all in $3,000. I have at this point had extensive conversations with the business strategist, the CPA tax manager, the head of book keeping, and a point of contact that helps navigate you around to where you need to go and I have only once received somewhat conflicting advice on the overall strategy, which to me isn't too bad for having that many people collaborating from all different angles. Last what really surprised me on the accounting/book keeping side was if you ask them they will not only help you from a book keeping standpoint, but they will actually help you pull custom reporting from QBO to analyze your financials like a corporate controller would. That was actually sold me.
Outside of one situation when it took a bit longer than I was told to set up all of the book keeping and Quickbooks online, they have been super prompt and responsive to my questions (which was a LOT).
I hope that helps!
That is helpful Terrance. I would love to hear any more details you can provide on the tax/bookkeeping side. I have a rather complex tax/bookkeeping situation, with multiple entities, so would love to hear what level of detail they provide. Do they have different levels of charges depending on how many entities/units?
@Bob Smith Glad to help. This is how the tax/book keeping side works. You buy a package of 160 "credits" (I think there is also a version where you can get 320 credits but I didn't do this at first and I am unsure of the cost at the moment) which you can use whenever you want for however you want. Depending on who you are talking with, they pull from those credits at an hourly rate:
Book keepers pull 7 credits per hour
Tax Preparers pull 10 credits per hour
CPA/Attorneys pull 20 credits per hour
They will set up everything up for you without using any of those credits. (a side note you have to ask them for build a spreadsheet that shows you how much you have used and what's left because they have a glitch in their system where they don't automatically do this) Quick books online which comes with a discount from QBO due to their relationship with Anderson. They will even allow you to use your credits for them to train or teach their system to an accountant that you choose to bring in which is what I initially planned on doing. (That accountant advised me to use the plus version online "$35 per month per entity" because of it's capabilities for class and location codes. I recommend using class codes, and setting up a class code for every property you buy and/or sell. When class codes are enabled, every transaction can be assigned to a class code and from that information, you can run a Profit and Loss Statement not just as a total aggregate number but broken down by each property. That way you can see the individual profitability for each of your projects and compare which ones did better and which did worse. Based on what you said about multiple entities this may be of a benefit to you)
In terms of level of detail. They seem to have an incredible amount of detail and specificity that they will provide. In my walkthrough set up meeting with the book keeping supervisor and my personal assigned book keeper, they walked me through QBO that they had already set up (they are very systematic in their set up and process and it's very easy to follow), they showed me how to use it (or another accountant if I wanted), they had everything from my property, bank accounts etc in and walked me through. They were under the impression that I was bringing my own accountant so they left some things off, but when I told them that I was going to use them they quickly said that they were going add more detail, and complete everything for my review. I also asked as I mentioned above about the ability to build out custom reports based on the financial information that they are getting and the supervisor said that she would work on some custom reports for me. (She hasn't delivered that yet so I'm not sure how helpful that they will be just yet). But all and all they seem very detail and flexible to my needs and are willing to custom tailor what you want within the guidelines of their package.
To answer your last question they do not have different charges for multiple entities. But they bill according to those credit rates above so if it takes them a super long time to do your book, my sense is that they will use more credits to do them. Just to give you a sense of how fast they use that time, I gave them 3 entities and everything that I have mentioned here over the last month cost me 3.22 billable hours or 22.54 credits. (137.46 credits left).
Now I forgot to mention this but I haven't even touched the taxes side of things. They first will do a thorough audit of your last 2 years of taxes for ALL entities and then walk you through where things are good and where you may be at risk and then create a tax strategy moving forward. Their tax manager literally spent 2.5 hours in a deep dive and answered all of my questions (and I had a TON) and I learned an enormous amount from that conversation. That doesn't count against your credits. If you do platinum like I did they will put all notes in a "box" file on their platform, upload all of your entity information and you have lots of legal forms to use. You can have unlimited conversations with their legal team, unlimited email responses from their tax team and a Sr. Advisor or higher to bring it all together in a cohesive strategy. Since they have everything in-house, they will ask you how you want to handle your taxes and if you choose to do them with them the book keepers will transfer all of your financials over to them and they fill out (or you) a form that goes with it and then everything is done at that point. You use your credits for them to do your taxes at the rate I gave you above.
I hope that answers everything!
Thank you @Terrance Thames. That is excellent information.
Has anybody gone to Anderson's asset protection seminar? It sounds interesting to me but want to make sure it's worth the dough. Here's a link. It's 2 days and in Vegas. Always nice to have an excuse to go to Vegas! :)
this is all helpful. They sound like a well put together company, but the costs are steep. Definitely want to make sure it is worth the money before taking the plunge.
@Quenton Mullins
I would love to connect with you as well. I just had a conversation with Anderson Advisors last Wednesday regarding asset protection and I am considering for their Platinum or Titanium package. It would be great if I can get some of your input. Thank you