Wholesaling Mentor Programs: Are they worth it?

25 Replies

Hello all, I've been reading, listening, and studying real estate investment pathways for a couple of years now and one thing I keep coming across are RE wholesaler "mentor" programs. Here I'm thinking of courses like Brent Daniels (TTP), Astroflipping (Jamil Damji/KeyGlee), Pace Morby (subto.com), Ron LeGrand, Chris Chico, and many others. These programs typically cost from $5,800-$10,000 (although I have heard that some can be talked down to as little as $800-$2,500).

The question that keeps coming to my mind is; Why are they doing this? I understand they make good money by selling you and I the ability to access a bunch of videos on how to start a wholesale business but isn't this really just a conflict of their own interests? Aren't they basically just creating even more competition for themselves and thus making it harder for them to continue wholesaling? I don't know of any other major business models that would do this (such as Pepsi starting a mentor program on how to start/run your own cola company and then compete with them for the same customers). 

The second and perhaps even bigger question is; Are they selling these programs because wholesaling is even harder than they make it appear? In other words, could it be they know that wholesaling (in many major markets) is saturated and doing it successfully is harder than they let on; thus selling you the dream on how to do it is more profitable? I've heard about this with some real estate "gurus" on YouTube who actually make way more money in YouTube ads than they do their own real estate business! Perhaps it's just a combination of the two? 

Additionally, could it be that they are counting on the fact that most people will buy their training programs and then either 1) only do a deal or two or 2) not follow through in starting a full fledged wholesaling business? I wonder if there is something I'm missing here. 

I would like to hear your thoughts and I am specifically interested in hearing from those of you who are currently wholesaling successfully (i.e. - doing at least 1-5 deals per month - either wholesaling or doing creative finance deals). 

What do you think? Am I way off base here? 

Thanks all! 
Aaron Lietz
Door&Key

Hey guys - interesting post right? The why behind it all. DM me and I will give you my thoughts. I feel it does make a difference (not the mentorship) ... the why behind it all. 

Real estate has seemed to have attracted the huckster, the P.T. Barnum type who promises the blue sky.  Securities and derivative trading not so much but more so since the advent of online forums and platforms.  In the old days, the barriers to entry for securities trading were high (think brokerage commissions) whereas in real estate there was this allure of the no money down "creative" deal that could transform a penniless person living under an overpass into a mogul with a yacht, big house and scores of bikini babes (yes, the marketing was mainly to a male audience back then and still for the most part today though that seems to be changing a bit).  Remember the truism that selling shovels to gold miners is how you make money in this world and not by gold mining.  In this way, the guru set is just following the Levi Strauss model for getting rich.     

As for competition, I would not be overly concerned.  When you look from the proper perspective, you and the guru are just two life boats in an endless ocean.  There is a lot of room for a lot of investors out there.  

The idea of paying more than a few hundred dollars when all of the net's resources are available for free is really ridiculous.  The litmus test I would use is this: if you are going to teach me how to make money in real estate, provide me with at least 20 addresses of properties you bought, rented, flipped, wholesaled, whatever.  The maxim "those who can, do, and those who can't, teach" is not entirely without merit.

Originally posted by @Darius Ogloza :

Real estate has seemed to have attracted the huckster, the P.T. Barnum type who promises the blue sky.  Securities and derivative trading not so much but more so since the advent of online forums and platforms.  In the old days, the barriers to entry for securities trading were high (think brokerage commissions) whereas in real estate there was this allure of the no money down "creative" deal that could transform a penniless person living under an overpass into a mogul with a yacht, big house and scores of bikini babes (yes, the marketing was mainly to a male audience back then and still for the most part today though that seems to be changing a bit).  Remember the truism that selling shovels to gold miners is how you make money in this world and not by gold mining.  In this way, the guru set is just following the Levi Strauss model for getting rich.

As for competition, I would not be overly concerned.  When you look from the proper perspective, you and the guru are just two life boats in an endless ocean.  There is a lot of room for a lot of investors out there.  

The idea of paying more than a few hundred dollars when all of the net's resources are available for free is really ridiculous.  The litmus test I would use is this: if you are going to teach me how to make money in real estate, provide me with at least 20 addresses of properties you bought, rented, flipped, wholesaled, whatever.  The maxim "those who can, do, and those who can't, teach" is not entirely without merit. 

Thank you for the reply. Undoubtedly there are people out there who have paid the $10k for the training program (and/or mentoring) and have made that back with their first deal (and then some). I think that's the main argument from their side, "Hey, yes the mentoring might look expensive at first, but then again, it's actually cheap in comparison to the amount of value you are getting. I'm going to teach you the 'secrets' and/or techniques I use (that most people don't know about) in order to get up and running much faster. You will then have a system you can repeat over and over (just like I did) that will likely make you way more than $10k (provided that you stick to it and grind hard everyday). 

On the other side though, I do see your point. "Hey, you can find all of this information yourself (either online for free, or cheaply at places like Audibile, Amazon, BP, etc). It might come down to convenience. How much time do I want to spend using the at-home DIY education approach versus hiring someone to teach me what they are doing? 

Originally posted by @Darius Ogloza :

Real estate has seemed to have attracted the huckster, the P.T. Barnum type who promises the blue sky.  Securities and derivative trading not so much but more so since the advent of online forums and platforms.  In the old days, the barriers to entry for securities trading were high (think brokerage commissions) whereas in real estate there was this allure of the no money down "creative" deal that could transform a penniless person living under an overpass into a mogul with a yacht, big house and scores of bikini babes (yes, the marketing was mainly to a male audience back then and still for the most part today though that seems to be changing a bit).  Remember the truism that selling shovels to gold miners is how you make money in this world and not by gold mining.  In this way, the guru set is just following the Levi Strauss model for getting rich.

As for competition, I would not be overly concerned.  When you look from the proper perspective, you and the guru are just two life boats in an endless ocean.  There is a lot of room for a lot of investors out there.  

The idea of paying more than a few hundred dollars when all of the net's resources are available for free is really ridiculous.  The litmus test I would use is this: if you are going to teach me how to make money in real estate, provide me with at least 20 addresses of properties you bought, rented, flipped, wholesaled, whatever.  The maxim "those who can, do, and those who can't, teach" is not entirely without merit.

Bikini Babes = Dave Del Dotto..  if you have not checked it out Dave has some awesome wineries in the Napa valley.. One of them is right across the st from Silverado CC  I lived about 500 feet from it.. and would take my visitors over at the end of the day and if Dave was there he would regale us with stories of how he basically created the Genre ..

bottom line.. with the wholesale how to guys.. they DO NOT actually do it.. there business is selling information on how to do it.. so they are not creating competition.. the top how to real estate trainers make HUGE money the last thing they need to waste time on is actually trying to wholesale some property..   So thats the answer to are they creating their own competition.

Originally posted by @Aaron David Lietz:
Originally posted by @Darius Ogloza:

Real estate has seemed to have attracted the huckster, the P.T. Barnum type who promises the blue sky.  Securities and derivative trading not so much but more so since the advent of online forums and platforms.  In the old days, the barriers to entry for securities trading were high (think brokerage commissions) whereas in real estate there was this allure of the no money down "creative" deal that could transform a penniless person living under an overpass into a mogul with a yacht, big house and scores of bikini babes (yes, the marketing was mainly to a male audience back then and still for the most part today though that seems to be changing a bit).  Remember the truism that selling shovels to gold miners is how you make money in this world and not by gold mining.  In this way, the guru set is just following the Levi Strauss model for getting rich.

As for competition, I would not be overly concerned.  When you look from the proper perspective, you and the guru are just two life boats in an endless ocean.  There is a lot of room for a lot of investors out there.  

The idea of paying more than a few hundred dollars when all of the net's resources are available for free is really ridiculous.  The litmus test I would use is this: if you are going to teach me how to make money in real estate, provide me with at least 20 addresses of properties you bought, rented, flipped, wholesaled, whatever.  The maxim "those who can, do, and those who can't, teach" is not entirely without merit. 

Thank you for the reply. Undoubtedly there are people out there who have paid the $10k for the training program (and/or mentoring) and have made that back with their first deal (and then some). I think that's the main argument from their side, "Hey, yes the mentoring might look expensive at first, but then again, it's actually cheap in comparison to the amount of value you are getting. I'm going to teach you the 'secrets' and/or techniques I use (that most people don't know about) in order to get up and running much faster. You will then have a system you can repeat over and over (just like I did) that will likely make you way more than $10k (provided that you stick to it and grind hard everyday). 

On the other side though, I do see your point. "Hey, you can find all of this information yourself (either online for free, or cheaply at places like Audibile, Amazon, BP, etc). It might come down to convenience. How much time do I want to spend using the at-home DIY education approach versus hiring someone to teach me what they are doing?

David its like anything.. you have a certain amount that will take the training and do nothing with it.. certain amount who will blow the 10k and another 10k in marketing not get the results and quit.. and you have the few at the top.. much like MLM..  I deal with a lot of wholesalers around the country not directly but the folks I fund buy from.. them. the most successful are vertically integrated licensed agents so they can also pick off listings so they dont waste lead money .. they have an acquisition team a closing team etc.. spend 20 to 50k a month in marketing so on and so forth.  ANd of course there is a legion of one off wholesalers .. its a tough gig wholesaling probably one of the absolute toughest in real estate.. 

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :

Bikini Babes = Dave Del Dotto..  if you have not checked it out Dave has some awesome wineries in the Napa valley.. One of them is right across the st from Silverado CC  I lived about 500 feet from it.. and would take my visitors over at the end of the day and if Dave was there he would regale us with stories of how he basically created the Genre ..

bottom line.. with the wholesale how to guys.. they DO NOT actually do it.. there business is selling information on how to do it.. so they are not creating competition.. the top how to real estate trainers make HUGE money the last thing they need to waste time on is actually trying to wholesale some property..   So thats the answer to are they creating their own competition.

Are you sure about this? I know of people, right now (today) who are both currently doing successful wholesaling/flipping/investing while also training others to do it (either in their markets or in other markets, through the avenue of video or teaching virtual wholesaling). Now granted, some of them have now hired acquisitions teams but this seems to be after they successfully did it themselves.  Examples of this are Pace Morby (subto dot com), Jamil Damji (AstroFlipping/KeyGlee), and Brent Daniels (TTP). There are lots of testimonials (both video and website) from their students. Additionally, most of them have been featured on many podcasts such as BP or Real Estate Disruptors. Are these all faked? 

"Wholesaling Mentor Programs: Are they worth it?"

Like with any of these nothing-down training programs YMMV (your mileage may vary).  However, I think there is a lot of rah-rah which works to keep you going for a couple weeks without any real problem solving skills.

I think I'd rather call up one of those postcards ("WE BUY YOUR HOUSE IN ANY CONDITION - EVEN WITH DEAD BODIES) and ask them you'd like to apprentice to them.  They find the buyers and you won't make a huge margin, but I'd consider it cheap tuition.

DISCLOSURE - Think wholesaling isn't real ethical or maybe legal, so check with your locality.

Originally posted by @Aaron David Lietz:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Bikini Babes = Dave Del Dotto..  if you have not checked it out Dave has some awesome wineries in the Napa valley.. One of them is right across the st from Silverado CC  I lived about 500 feet from it.. and would take my visitors over at the end of the day and if Dave was there he would regale us with stories of how he basically created the Genre ..

bottom line.. with the wholesale how to guys.. they DO NOT actually do it.. there business is selling information on how to do it.. so they are not creating competition.. the top how to real estate trainers make HUGE money the last thing they need to waste time on is actually trying to wholesale some property..   So thats the answer to are they creating their own competition.

Are you sure about this? I know of people, right now (today) who are both currently doing successful wholesaling/flipping/investing while also training others to do it (either in their markets or in other markets, through the avenue of video or teaching virtual wholesaling). Now granted, some of them have now hired acquisitions teams but this seems to be after they successfully did it themselves.  Examples of this are Pace Morby (subto dot com), Jamil Damji (AstroFlipping/KeyGlee), and Brent Daniels (TTP). There are lots of testimonials (both video and website) from their students. Additionally, most of them have been featured on many podcasts such as BP or Real Estate Disruptors. Are these all faked? 

cant speak for them all and i never have heard of the ones you mentioned.. and i dont listen or watch a bP podcast personally not even my own. lOL..   But I have been around the training bizzness a lot and funded a lot of Montalongos students.. Rich dad  Vertucci etc.. and those folks money is made selling their training.. they started in the trenchs many times but by the time they get going and get big time.. at the most if they get income from the sale of the assets its more like a royalty payment.. they are not acutally doing anything .. Kind of like the wine bizzness.. when Arnold Palmer had his wines.. Friend of mine actually owned the winery and it was simply a label and AP made a cut but he is just renting his name.. just like Atheletes endorsing shoes etc. 

@Aaron Lietz if you have to ask strangers on the internet for validation of something’s value you already know the answer.

These programs aren’t worth it but the people you buy from will gladly take your money

@Aaron Lietz

They’re selling programs because it is instant, easy income. Work once, reap the benefits many times. Not trading time for money. The guru circuit is all the same, faster bigger easier money in telling vs doing. And don’t look now but BP branded items are no different.

@Aaron Lietz  Testimonials?  These are a dime a dozen.   A stopped clock tells the correct time twice a day.  Show me the addresses you flipped is the only litmus test I would trust in your shoes.   

Originally posted by @Aaron Lietz :
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Bikini Babes = Dave Del Dotto..  if you have not checked it out Dave has some awesome wineries in the Napa valley.. One of them is right across the st from Silverado CC  I lived about 500 feet from it.. and would take my visitors over at the end of the day and if Dave was there he would regale us with stories of how he basically created the Genre ..

bottom line.. with the wholesale how to guys.. they DO NOT actually do it.. there business is selling information on how to do it.. so they are not creating competition.. the top how to real estate trainers make HUGE money the last thing they need to waste time on is actually trying to wholesale some property..   So thats the answer to are they creating their own competition.

Are you sure about this? I know of people, right now (today) who are both currently doing successful wholesaling/flipping/investing while also training others to do it (either in their markets or in other markets, through the avenue of video or teaching virtual wholesaling). Now granted, some of them have now hired acquisitions teams but this seems to be after they successfully did it themselves.  Examples of this are Pace Morby (subto dot com), Jamil Damji (AstroFlipping/KeyGlee), and Brent Daniels (TTP). There are lots of testimonials (both video and website) from their students. Additionally, most of them have been featured on many podcasts such as BP or Real Estate Disruptors. Are these all faked? 

You don't find these testimonials compelling evidence for the effectiveness of these programs, do you? The people doing these programs know that 99.94% of their students will never make it in the wholesale industry...therefore, no risk of saturating the industry with wholesalers. The vast majority of what you can learn about wholesaling can be found here on BP as well as various videos online and books. The only added benefit of an expensive program with a live teacher is that it will get you fired up for a week or so. And then you start doing the work and realize that it's extremely grueling. As a wholesaler yourself, I'm sure your intimately familiar with how much hustle and drive is needed to make it. It's tough work that I myself am probably not cut out for.

I read about wholesaling, fix and flipping and other real estate methods and was also int he construction field as a drafter/engineer.  So I have a little bit of knowledge; with that being said the level I am at I do not need Pace's mentorship program, and I paid 2k out of the 7800 dollars and I really regret it in some ways.  There are "modules" which are videos you watch.  They were review for me and when I talked to the rep who contacted me about this mentorship I specified that I did not want to be going over info I already studied.  The program is a lot of fluff.  That is Pace's business, to make money from people wanting to get in this business and share his knowledge for money, but I didnt feel like it was worth it.  I could have been doing this by myself instead if being sidetracked with watching his videos like I was going to get ahead.  The best thing you can do is read a few books, watch youtube videos and get in it.  Action is better than just watching people or "teach" you how to do it.

I read about wholesaling, fix and flipping and other real estate methods and was also in the construction field as a drafter/engineer.  So I have a little bit of knowledge; with that being said the level I am at I do not need Pace's program, and I paid 2k out of the 7800 dollars and I really regret it in some ways.  There are "modules" which are videos you watch.  They were review for me and when I talked to the rep who contacted me about this  I specified that I did not want to be going over info I already studied.  The program is a lot of fluff.  That is Pace's business, to make money from people wanting to get in this business and share his knowledge for money, but I didnt feel like it was worth it.  I could have been doing this by myself instead if being sidetracked with watching his videos like I was going to get ahead.  The best thing you can do is read a few books, watch youtube videos and get in it.  Action is better than just watching people or "teach" you how to do it.

@Aaron Lietz , I asked those same questions when I was doing research to learn wholesale. I was a traditional buy and hold landlord that was relying on the MLS and wholesalers for my deals. I asked myself, Why don't I learn how to get these properties myself. So I did really hard research and Pace Morby's Subto program made more sense to me with my goal to build a huge portfolio. I've been in his course for 6 months now and all I can say is WOW. It's more than just Subject to and Wholesale. I've learned about advanced tax strategies, Anonymity business sets ups, Sales training, several creative strategies and on going daily accountability zooms. I'll be 100% honest, I'm feel embarrassed that I paid so low for a lifetime mentorship that's continuously benefits me to this day. However, it's just like anything else, It's what you make of it. I come from a bodybuilding background. I researched how to transform my body for 10 years online going in circles. I hired a coach for the first time and implemented every step to his program and What I wasn't able to do in 10 years I did in 7 months. So you can go in these programs and thrive or you can go in, have a bad experience and down talk. I've seen that with everything.

Some mentorship programs probably aren't any good. But some are. I am a part of Chris Jefferson's mentorship program and it's some of the best money I've spent. He only charges 100 a month. Also paid 500 for Keith Everett's acquisition and sales training and that was also some of the best money I've spent. I joined both after going to Youtube university for months and still got the most valuable information out of those 2 groups. All the top wholesalers also pay money to be in masterminds and training groups. If the best are willing to pay for mentorship why would anyone think it's bad for anyone else?

Came across this thread because I'm doing background on the founders of REIVault and their service. From my background as a digital marketer, it looks legit. But I also know that some people talk a good game but don't deliver.

To answer your question, I have created courses about building a digital marketing company, and I can tell you that I haven't created very much competition for myself for a lot of reasons.

The biggest reason is that 95%+ of the people that sign up DO NOT do the work. My method is 100% effective and not even that difficult to implement but only a third ever take ANY action and only 1 out of 20 does everything they need to do.

Now, BiggerPockets has about 43K wholesalers that have posted at least 10 times. Multiply them by 5% and you got about 2K ACTIVE wholesalers across the United States.

And the general rule of marketing is that at any given time, 1% of the population is interested in what you're selling.

So, I just did a search on Freedomsoft and in San Diego County, there are 9,782 3-bed / 2-bath Out of State Owner single family homes. The 1% rules means there are probably 100 interested in doing a deal RIGHT NOW.

Since San Diego makes up about 1% of the US population, I estimate there are about 20 ACTIVE wholesalers in San Diego County but at even 5X that amount, all of the ACTIVE wholesalers in San Diego County would still get at least 1 deal on a 3/2. Throw in all of the other types of properties and you got even more deals.

My point is that even if you doubled or tripled the amount of competition, there's still plenty of deals.

Now, from the trainer's POV, why wouldn't they sell their knowledge if they know that we're not even close to saturation and if only 5% of the people they teach are actually going to take action?

They can make $20-50K per month helping others make deals in real estate PLUS they're building a referral base. That's $600K per year.

Plus, I know my mentor gets at least one deal brought to him each week.

He won't do deals where he doesn't make at least $10K so that means these deals are making him and additional $500K per year on top of the deals he's generating himself.

After he created the course, he only has to hold 3-5 hours of training per week to give additional advice.

Do the math and he's making about $4K per hour.

1) Some people offer courses to help others become successful, and if they can get paid for it, that is fantastic. That this didn't even enter the mind is concerning.

2) It is an extra source of income for the guru. Why the frog not?!

3) It gives you more credibility and web presence for any and all businesses you start, including a REI business.

4) If your package/course is good you get a lot of students, and these students are loyal followers of you. This means networking and forming partnerships.

5) Everything is a connected dynamic eco system with symbiotic relationships that only will propel you and your students to the #1 spot in their business.

I would like to believe I made an impact on the lives of MANY people with our course and that alone is mindboggling to me. One of our students recently featured on the rookie podcast here on bp  sent me a message one day telling me he is on the way to becoming a millionaire and we were a huge part of it. Do you have a clue how amazing that is? We helped someone have a better life. That is not a small thing.

Because of some online program some dude I never even knew will have a dream life for himself, his wife and kids and I was a direct influence of this. It is a CRZY feeling. 

Lastly:

Yes there are a lot of money hungry "Coaches" out there that do it just for the money, but trust me when I say, some actually do it to help others achieve the same success they have achieved.

Originally posted by @Aaron Lietz :

Hello all, I've been reading, listening, and studying real estate investment pathways for a couple of years now and one thing I keep coming across are RE wholesaler "mentor" programs. Here I'm thinking of courses like Brent Daniels (TTP), Astroflipping (Jamil Damji/KeyGlee), Pace Morby (subto.com), Ron LeGrand, Chris Chico, and many others. These programs typically cost from $5,800-$10,000 (although I have heard that some can be talked down to as little as $800-$2,500).

The question that keeps coming to my mind is; Why are they doing this? I understand they make good money by selling you and I the ability to access a bunch of videos on how to start a wholesale business but isn't this really just a conflict of their own interests? Aren't they basically just creating even more competition for themselves and thus making it harder for them to continue wholesaling? I don't know of any other major business models that would do this (such as Pepsi starting a mentor program on how to start/run your own cola company and then compete with them for the same customers). 

The second and perhaps even bigger question is; Are they selling these programs because wholesaling is even harder than they make it appear? In other words, could it be they know that wholesaling (in many major markets) is saturated and doing it successfully is harder than they let on; thus selling you the dream on how to do it is more profitable? I've heard about this with some real estate "gurus" on YouTube who actually make way more money in YouTube ads than they do their own real estate business! Perhaps it's just a combination of the two? 

Additionally, could it be that they are counting on the fact that most people will buy their training programs and then either 1) only do a deal or two or 2) not follow through in starting a full fledged wholesaling business? I wonder if there is something I'm missing here. 

I would like to hear your thoughts and I am specifically interested in hearing from those of you who are currently wholesaling successfully (i.e. - doing at least 1-5 deals per month - either wholesaling or doing creative finance deals). 

What do you think? Am I way off base here? 

Thanks all! 
Aaron Lietz
Door&Key

simple answer there is HUGE money in the how to business  if you hit it big you can make millions ..  bottom line.. far more than trying to wholesale.. 

Originally posted by @Darius Ogloza :

Real estate has seemed to have attracted the huckster, the P.T. Barnum type who promises the blue sky.  Securities and derivative trading not so much but more so since the advent of online forums and platforms.  In the old days, the barriers to entry for securities trading were high (think brokerage commissions) whereas in real estate there was this allure of the no money down "creative" deal that could transform a penniless person living under an overpass into a mogul with a yacht, big house and scores of bikini babes (yes, the marketing was mainly to a male audience back then and still for the most part today though that seems to be changing a bit).  Remember the truism that selling shovels to gold miners is how you make money in this world and not by gold mining.  In this way, the guru set is just following the Levi Strauss model for getting rich.

As for competition, I would not be overly concerned.  When you look from the proper perspective, you and the guru are just two life boats in an endless ocean.  There is a lot of room for a lot of investors out there.  

The idea of paying more than a few hundred dollars when all of the net's resources are available for free is really ridiculous.  The litmus test I would use is this: if you are going to teach me how to make money in real estate, provide me with at least 20 addresses of properties you bought, rented, flipped, wholesaled, whatever.  The maxim "those who can, do, and those who can't, teach" is not entirely without merit.

Dave Del Dotto was the original Bikini Babe  and now he is a famous Vintner in the Napa Valley with a few really cool wineries one was right across the street from my house.. Had a few great conversations with him back in the day over a nice glass of Cab..  

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :
Originally posted by @Aaron Lietz:

Hello all, I've been reading, listening, and studying real estate investment pathways for a couple of years now and one thing I keep coming across are RE wholesaler "mentor" programs. Here I'm thinking of courses like Brent Daniels (TTP), Astroflipping (Jamil Damji/KeyGlee), Pace Morby (subto.com), Ron LeGrand, Chris Chico, and many others. These programs typically cost from $5,800-$10,000 (although I have heard that some can be talked down to as little as $800-$2,500).

The question that keeps coming to my mind is; Why are they doing this? I understand they make good money by selling you and I the ability to access a bunch of videos on how to start a wholesale business but isn't this really just a conflict of their own interests? Aren't they basically just creating even more competition for themselves and thus making it harder for them to continue wholesaling? I don't know of any other major business models that would do this (such as Pepsi starting a mentor program on how to start/run your own cola company and then compete with them for the same customers). 

The second and perhaps even bigger question is; Are they selling these programs because wholesaling is even harder than they make it appear? In other words, could it be they know that wholesaling (in many major markets) is saturated and doing it successfully is harder than they let on; thus selling you the dream on how to do it is more profitable? I've heard about this with some real estate "gurus" on YouTube who actually make way more money in YouTube ads than they do their own real estate business! Perhaps it's just a combination of the two? 

Additionally, could it be that they are counting on the fact that most people will buy their training programs and then either 1) only do a deal or two or 2) not follow through in starting a full fledged wholesaling business? I wonder if there is something I'm missing here. 

I would like to hear your thoughts and I am specifically interested in hearing from those of you who are currently wholesaling successfully (i.e. - doing at least 1-5 deals per month - either wholesaling or doing creative finance deals). 

What do you think? Am I way off base here? 

Thanks all! 
Aaron Lietz
Door&Key

simple answer there is HUGE money in the how to business  if you hit it big you can make millions ..  bottom line.. far more than trying to wholesale.. 

Amen to that. Even within this forum, it's pretty obvious there are a good amount of folks who are phishing for mentorship candidates. Their messages are often slightly cryptic but at the same time reveal just enough to make it seem like they are in possession of some kind of secret sauce or an alternative method of booking costs and cash-flows that are key to being successful in real estate. Wholesaling, buying properties with zero money down and cash-flowing from day one, etc... yes, these are all doable and people have been successfully doing this for generations, but it's 100x easier to make money selling this type of program to newbs than it is to actually execute any of these types of strategies.