All Forum Posts by: Chris Watson

I held off till last April to jump into pricelabs. The reason I held off was my returns were higher than 90% of my competition in the Smokys and I am a math nut.  Then on March 25, 2024 came and my 2/1 that has brought in as much as $137k a year had zero bookings for April 2024.  I took the time to set it up and that property ended April 2024 at 100% occupancy.  I was wanting to charge too much and didn't see the demand shift due to an early Easter last year.

I am in pricelabs daily still adjusting.  Pricelabs aided in all my properties (except one I stayed in for a week last month) increase revenue last month (Jan 2025) as much as 27% over Jan 2024. Pricelabs is not a set it and forget it.  It takes daily fine tuning.

What I do like about Pricelabs is it quickly shows me demand for certain days/weeks at a glance. This helped me yesterday when someone inquired about a stay in October.  I could quickly determine if I wanted to offer a discount or not.

What I don't like is Pricelabs can swing pricing for certain nights by over $200 overnight. So when a potential guests looks at a property before going to bed and then they wake up and decide to book the rate is jacked way up and they message me asking what is going on.  

Overall closing out 10 months with Pricelabs I think it is worth it, but I still spend about the same amount of time adjusting rates everyday (10 to 15 minutes for 9 properties).

i will answer your last questions first. Use Josh Rimmel for landscaping (professional, honest and reliable). I have used him for over 5 yrs and was actually recommended by a nearby HOA President. Insurance call around and get quotes. The majority thing about insurance is to protect the HOA from being sued and to protect HOA board members also. You will find rates all over the place just like with all insurance. A lot of management companies overcharge. Owners pay not to deal with problems. A small new HOA usually has few problems. I have been President in a 30 lot self-managed HOA and it isn't that difficult if everyone works together. You need a copy of the contract with the management company to determine how to terminate it. If HOA by laws state past due owners are responsible for all late fees and legal expenses for collection hire an attorney to go after the past due. First, call and ask why they are not paying. It might be payment notices are going to a different address and it is simply overlooked. I saw once where a developer gave the buyer a pass on paying HOA fees till a house was built on a lot. It was 18 yrs till a house was built. If you have a road maintained by the HOA then set aside for that in reserves. I hope this helps.

I have used them multiple times in the past.  The Polywood discount is hard to beat. The only delay I have had is a chair from Serena and Lily. Like others have stated, their price is not always the best especially if you use cashback sites and/or search for coupon codes for other sites.

I have 9 properties in 2 states and 3 different counties. I do it myself and takes 20 to 30 minutes a month (did it yesterday for Dec), with about 7 of those minutes for 1 property in Blount County, TN which requires the form to be manually filled out, write a check, address an envelope, scan doc and check for my records and walk it to my mailbox.

My understanding of Avalara is I still need to input the info so it would take 10-15 minutes to do. I have made an instruction sheet with an example for each taxing authority I remit to. It streamlined it for me. If anyone files for Florida it is 10 times more confusing than Tennessee.  The cheat sheet/example greatly reduced time. Personally, remitting myself makes sure I dive deep on numbers. Since Airbnb remits at the state level when I see high numbers (or low) of what I am remitting for other OTAs/direct I then drill down to make sure listings are optimized on all channels. For example, in Dec I had one property 100% direct/VRBO which historically 40% Airbnb. Today I will look to make sure that property is optimized on Airbnb.  The total cost for this monthly for me is $1.00 fee for online payment for Sevier County, TN and the .73 cent stamp for Blount County, TN. Now 3 of the 5 taxing authorities give a credit for doing them on time which can be as high as $150 savings for me each month and I am not sure I would get that using Avalara. I do use Ownerrez as a PMS and they have a report that automatically gives me the numbers needed to do it myself and it takes just a few clicks.

I requested a few days ago on several properties and am waiting on their decision.

I would pay once and then immediately look for different cleaners or subtract from year end bonus. Many Smokys owners are having to make a decision in the next 48hrs on having to cancel incoming guests this weekend due to weather/snow event.  It is a safety issue.  January is historically the lowest demand/income month so when a cancellation happens it hurts more. If I had to pay my cleaners on top of the loss income it would impact even more as my cleaning fees range from $100 to $400 depending on the property.  

Now it appears your cleaners might be cleaning non-STR properties also (home owners). If there is not enough STRs in the market you are in then you have to adjust business practices. If there are enough STRs then look for other cleaners.

Quote from @Mike H.:

Quote from @Chris Watson:

Quote from @Mike H.:

Quote from @Marc Bowman:

A lot of our software users in the Gatlinburg area have reported that the Fire Marshall is stepping up and enforcing things that perhaps they didn't in the past. After the fire in 2016 damaged or destroyed more than 2,000 buildings, 16,000 acres, with 16 lives lost, I think they are trying to be better about enforcement. Unfortunately, I tend to agree that they really are not concerned with whether or not you have to cancel bookings.

 The funny thing about that is that the big gatlinburg fire didn't start in a cabin. It started in the forest preserve from two teenagers messing around.  Does the fire preserve have to have a sprinkler system put in anywhere? :-)

A sprinkler system in a cabin isn't going to do anything.  And while I've only been investing out there for the last couple of years, I have yet to hear of a story where people were killed because they got caught in a cabin that went up in smoke. 

Its yet another example of govt trying to butt its way into something because they think there's money for them to grab.  A sprinkler system isn't going to prevent a cabin from going up in flames if the trees around them are on fire. 

Being from illinois, I do get a kick at how much regulation goes on out there in tennessee - where people give me guff about how our local politicians here are so intrusive.  Its even worse in tennessee - by far.  People may act like they are for small govt out there,  but their actions are about as far from that as you can possibly get. 

There have been several cabin fires where people died. This is the one that sparked Tennessee to really start to create legislation on it. 
https://fox59.com/news/officials-confirm-two-dead-in-tenness...
This is a state fire code on sleeping more than 12. Actually, since 2016 up till this year TN fire marshals office was doing all inspections of new builds in Sevier County which required fire suppression/sleep more than 12.  

I guess what I meant to say is that it isn't the cabins catching on fire that created the big fire. And why is it that every single home - whether its a rental cabin or primary residence - doesn't have to have a sprinkler system? 6 people aren't enough people to be worth saving? Only rental cabins catch on fire and not primary residences.

In all honesty, though, I would agree that something that size should be treated more as a commercial property any way and the sprinkler system makes sense to me. And yep, I was made aware a couple of years ago of that 12 person max and/or I think 4,000 sq ft limitation (or some size anyway) that requires a sprinkler system for all new construction.

I don't think they're that wrong for implementing the requirement.  But I do have an issue with asking some of these pre-existing cabin owners to have to retrofit their cabin with the system and expecting them to have it done in a year or something.  They should be given 2 to 3 years to do something like that given its harder to retrofit those in and its also much more costly to put in compared to new construction.

Again, they've been going for 30 or 40 years with nothing and now expect everyone to just jump.  The fire department should put them in for them if they think its so easy to get it done. 

I just don't like to see the government adding all the regulations and significant costs (those systems aren't cheap) as a knee jerk reaction to tragedies.  Here in illinois people die from fires in their homes every year.  They don't make us put in 20k sprinkler systems in our homes. 

I just don't see what the difference is between an owner occupant dying from a fire in their home and renter dying in a fire from a rental cabin that sleeps 12 or more. Other than the fact if they tried to make every owner of their own home put in a 10k to 20k sprinkler system, they'd all get voted out of office - every last one of them. So they pick on the landlords for everything because we don't have enough of us to vote them out.

 I get it, but it is state law, not local law, and they are just now enforcing it across the board as they are required by law to do and they are not picking on people. Failure for the fire department to knowingly not enforce leaves the county liable if something happens.  Technically, those sleeping over 12 built after 2016 are putting themselves in a legally liable situation if something happens as insurance companies may not cover them. The standards have been out for about a year and most sprinkler installers are 3 to 6 months out.  Do I think the fire dept could have communicated more clearly upfront, maybe, but they did mail out to all registered owners the standards.  Now there was no mention of the engineered plans requirement for the 12+ requirement to my recollection, so I do call foul there.  As someone who has cabins that sleeps 20+ I have known the sprinkler requirement for at least a year. Now I have seen a situation where there was a pre-2016 build, but the previous owner pulled permit to install a pool and a new Certificate of Occupancy was issued after 2016.  How the law is written the owner has to abide by the code of the latest C/O.  This sucks and I understand the frustration of the new owner because they had no idea a new C/O was issued until the county sent them a notice.  The current owner has to drop down to 12 or less till they get the sprinkler system in and engineered plans submitted to the county.  Most of these 12+ cabins bring in $150K to $300K+ a year so while it sucks to shell out $20K to $35K it shouldn't hurt as bad as if it were the cabins bringing in $30K-$80K a year. Again this requirement directly impacts me.  One thing I did note is my insurance is $3K a year lower due to the monitored fire suppression system in these larger properties versus my smaller properties that sleep 12 or less built close to the same time.

As someone who has lived in Illinois twice, the politicians there don't care if people burn as long as they can tax and spend.  I believe they still hold the record of the most Governors who went to prison. The only place I see more cheating is in the recruiting of SEC football players (SEC fan here).

Quote from @Mike H.:

Quote from @Marc Bowman:

A lot of our software users in the Gatlinburg area have reported that the Fire Marshall is stepping up and enforcing things that perhaps they didn't in the past. After the fire in 2016 damaged or destroyed more than 2,000 buildings, 16,000 acres, with 16 lives lost, I think they are trying to be better about enforcement. Unfortunately, I tend to agree that they really are not concerned with whether or not you have to cancel bookings.

 The funny thing about that is that the big gatlinburg fire didn't start in a cabin. It started in the forest preserve from two teenagers messing around.  Does the fire preserve have to have a sprinkler system put in anywhere? :-)

A sprinkler system in a cabin isn't going to do anything.  And while I've only been investing out there for the last couple of years, I have yet to hear of a story where people were killed because they got caught in a cabin that went up in smoke. 

Its yet another example of govt trying to butt its way into something because they think there's money for them to grab.  A sprinkler system isn't going to prevent a cabin from going up in flames if the trees around them are on fire. 

Being from illinois, I do get a kick at how much regulation goes on out there in tennessee - where people give me guff about how our local politicians here are so intrusive.  Its even worse in tennessee - by far.  People may act like they are for small govt out there,  but their actions are about as far from that as you can possibly get. 

There have been several cabin fires where people died. This is the one that sparked Tennessee to really start to create legislation on it. 
https://fox59.com/news/officials-confirm-two-dead-in-tenness...
This is a state fire code on sleeping more than 12. Actually, since 2016 up till this year TN fire marshals office was doing all inspections of new builds in Sevier County which required fire suppression/sleep more than 12.  

Quote from @Collin Hays:

Quote from @Chris Watson:

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

Quote from @Chris Watson:

While I agree with 2 and 4, I respectfully disagree with 1, 3 and 5. For background I have vacationed in the Smokies since 1983 and own 6 currently in the Smokies.  I have built and sold 3 others and fixed flipped 1. I have owned iand self managed all for 8 years.

As for point 1, I agree there is a higher demand for Gatlinburg, but it isn't that high to be called ground zero. Actually most potential guests ask how far to Dollywood and how far to hiking (arguably Gatlinburg could win the hiking). The majority of our cabins are in Jones Cove area and they have always crushed it. I contend while certain percentage of visitors want the Gatlinburg/PF experience there are a greater amount wanting an uncluttered view with easy access to these cities. This is why Wears Valley is a popular request (I don't own there). I do have a log one in Townsend but it is really a different market.

3. I have 3 log cabins and 3 modern/contemporary designs. Right now, and for 8 years, the contemporary outperform log. There are a large percentage of guests not wanting a log cabin. I do believe there is an overbuild of certain modern and contemporary designs. If you scroll through zillow you will quickly see multiples of these designs. I believe these are the ones you are referring to. I built my first modern 7 years ago and like you agree that some (not all) moderns will age out. Then again we thought that about A-frames the past 30 years and now they are making a resurgence. If you go modern make sure it is unique.The interesting part of modern is a large percentage of renters come from demographics with  different cultural backgrounds than our family's. We enjoy that, but like any business know your customer base. 

5. New construction is not "always the most expensive way to go."  A significant amount of my networth was made through building in the Smokies.  I can build cheaper than I could replace but there is a time and stress factor to consider. There are major warnings for people looking to build. There are some very shady builders still in the area. Google the builder's legal name and see what comes up. One contractor was at the planning dept the other day who just got out of federal prison earlier this year. Not all lots are cost efficient to build on. Make sure your plans are engineered from someone reputable (don't trust the builder's guy unless you can verify their trustworthiness).  Costs will always go over budget.  I would say generally, buying already built is cheaper on the mind, stress and time. If you don't have the additional mental bandwidth, can't deal with stress in healthful way or do not have much time to commit atleast 14 months of focus then do not build. If built right you could get some significant equity. As for buying already built I agree there are some great opportunities, but do your due diligence.  

For me personally I will stay out of the city limits for STRs. There are some areas near Gatlinburg I would consider, but cities are just a large HOA which I do not trust over the longterm. Lastly, we all must remember we are close to 20 million visitors to the area (13M to GSMNP) every year and most owners just need 60 to 80 families to stay at their STR to have a successful year.

 . 

 Love to get your 2 cents on what is going on there now? I have a lead on a property that was north of $2M during the peak but I have heard the area has seen pricing coming back to reality and would be curious to get a sense for how values are faring in the area. 

 I agree with Collin in that prices dipped, but overall the market is remaining strong. I expect prices to start creeping up in Q1/Q2 once people see 2024 was as good or better than 2023 for the majority of STRs in the area. There are some good buys right now.

 Our 2024 was not as good as 2023.  Off about 13% on average per property.

 I am up 1% YTD for income in the Smokys across 6 properties. This is with a 4.75% increase increase in occupancy. I believe it would have been up another .5%, but we canceled guests across all properties three times last winter when the weather predicted 4 to 7 inches of snow. We didn't want to deal with the headache of stranded guests with no power.  Each time, it was just a dusting of snow (thanks weatherman). I  started keeping an event journal to remind me of issues or unique incidents that impact the income/occupancy of each property, including maintenance block-offs.  It helps me to pinpoint what actually causes income/occupancy to go up or down. I used to assume it was demand and would forget what happened a few months ago.  

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

Quote from @Chris Watson:

While I agree with 2 and 4, I respectfully disagree with 1, 3 and 5. For background I have vacationed in the Smokies since 1983 and own 6 currently in the Smokies.  I have built and sold 3 others and fixed flipped 1. I have owned iand self managed all for 8 years.

As for point 1, I agree there is a higher demand for Gatlinburg, but it isn't that high to be called ground zero. Actually most potential guests ask how far to Dollywood and how far to hiking (arguably Gatlinburg could win the hiking). The majority of our cabins are in Jones Cove area and they have always crushed it. I contend while certain percentage of visitors want the Gatlinburg/PF experience there are a greater amount wanting an uncluttered view with easy access to these cities. This is why Wears Valley is a popular request (I don't own there). I do have a log one in Townsend but it is really a different market.

3. I have 3 log cabins and 3 modern/contemporary designs. Right now, and for 8 years, the contemporary outperform log. There are a large percentage of guests not wanting a log cabin. I do believe there is an overbuild of certain modern and contemporary designs. If you scroll through zillow you will quickly see multiples of these designs. I believe these are the ones you are referring to. I built my first modern 7 years ago and like you agree that some (not all) moderns will age out. Then again we thought that about A-frames the past 30 years and now they are making a resurgence. If you go modern make sure it is unique.The interesting part of modern is a large percentage of renters come from demographics with  different cultural backgrounds than our family's. We enjoy that, but like any business know your customer base. 

5. New construction is not "always the most expensive way to go."  A significant amount of my networth was made through building in the Smokies.  I can build cheaper than I could replace but there is a time and stress factor to consider. There are major warnings for people looking to build. There are some very shady builders still in the area. Google the builder's legal name and see what comes up. One contractor was at the planning dept the other day who just got out of federal prison earlier this year. Not all lots are cost efficient to build on. Make sure your plans are engineered from someone reputable (don't trust the builder's guy unless you can verify their trustworthiness).  Costs will always go over budget.  I would say generally, buying already built is cheaper on the mind, stress and time. If you don't have the additional mental bandwidth, can't deal with stress in healthful way or do not have much time to commit atleast 14 months of focus then do not build. If built right you could get some significant equity. As for buying already built I agree there are some great opportunities, but do your due diligence.  

For me personally I will stay out of the city limits for STRs. There are some areas near Gatlinburg I would consider, but cities are just a large HOA which I do not trust over the longterm. Lastly, we all must remember we are close to 20 million visitors to the area (13M to GSMNP) every year and most owners just need 60 to 80 families to stay at their STR to have a successful year.

 . 

 Love to get your 2 cents on what is going on there now? I have a lead on a property that was north of $2M during the peak but I have heard the area has seen pricing coming back to reality and would be curious to get a sense for how values are faring in the area. 

 I agree with Collin in that prices dipped, but overall the market is remaining strong. I expect prices to start creeping up in Q1/Q2 once people see 2024 was as good or better than 2023 for the majority of STRs in the area. There are some good buys right now.