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All Forum Posts by: Dave Stokley

Dave Stokley has started 13 posts and replied 658 times.

Post: Do people like losing money in the Smoky Mountains?

Dave Stokley
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 676
  • Votes 792
Quote from @Taylor Jones:
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Taylor Jones:

I haven't checked your numbers, but I suspect a $1 million property would produce closer to $40,000 - $50,000 net per year.

I've seen people buying property these last two years that look like real stinkers, but I know some people that are still doing really well.


 How can you net $50K per year when debt, taxes, insurance alone run $78K annually?


Make more than $125k.

Pay cash.

Reduce that opex...what are you spending $30k on?

Post: Refund extenuating circumstances beyond your cancellation policy?

Dave Stokley
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 676
  • Votes 792
Quote from @Ryan Moyer:

Where the heck do these people live that they keep getting stuck at home due to weather?  We've had 40" of snow here this week and flights are still taking off like normal.

In these instances I usually take it case by case.  We did let a guest cancel at our Orlando property because of Hurricane Ian even though Airbnb explicitly lists Florida hurricanes as expected events that the host is responsible for. 

Another guest wanted to cancel Thanksgiving and we did the "we'll refund you if we re-book" thing and that did end up re-booking, albeit at a lower rate, so we refunded them minus the difference in cost of the lower priced stay.  But that was on a holiday with a 30 day cancelation.  With 5 days already that's a super flexible cancelation policy (even if Airbnb calls it "moderate") and I doubt you'd re-book that close.

But yea, my confusion still remains what the heck these guests are doing that they're regularly unable to travel for an entire 3-day span.  I'd be skeptical of how truthful they're being with that.

Both in New York State. First one was in Buffalo a few weeks ago when they got like 4 feet of snow and had to move the NFL game, so it was legit. The other was for this weekend coming from Albany, where the weather doesn’t look awful.

Post: STR - PM Walkthrough Between Guests

Dave Stokley
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 676
  • Votes 792

Nice!

I’ve listened to this three times and still can’t understand something you said at the beginning. Did you say “we property manage as their attorney”?

How about some rugs in those bedrooms?!?

Post: Refund extenuating circumstances beyond your cancellation policy?

Dave Stokley
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 676
  • Votes 792
Quote from @Ricky A.:
Quote from @Dave Stokley:

Am I making my life too complicated if I offer to refund him IF he cancels AND the property gets booked by another guest?

I think that's too complicated given that it's the day before, so the chances of it being booked by another guest are low.

I think you have a very generous cancellation policy, so you could go either way.  

Part of you decision  may be the number of reviews you already have.  If you don't have many right now, a negative could be a big hit so refund it.  $530 saved won't compare to the $$$ lost if your average rating is pulled low because of one bad review.

However, if you already have enough reviews that one negative won't affect the average much, enforce your policy...it's already very generous.  Doing this, I would play the sympathy card of being a small business not able to easily absorb the late cancellation.  Apologize, apologize, apologize.  Temper it with something like "That's why I have a generous cancellation policy...because I can usually re-rent it within 5 days, but I simply can't the day before."

Another alternative is what (at least) one of my PMs does.  They never give refunds.  They stress, stress, stress that the only way a guest will ever get their money back is if they purchase trip insurance.  However, in that rare case of "no-insurance-but-needs-to-cancel," they will allow guest to use that payment toward a future, off-season, open date. Yes, their incentive is a little different that ours as the property owner, but it still may be an alternative for a more palatable solution.

Excellent points and analysis, thanks!

The property has 4.89* with 53 reviews, so it can withstand a bad one if it happens. I'm also pretty confident that Airbnb is becoming more aggressive and would remove an unfair review. Knocking a place for enforcing a clearly stated policy would seem to qualify as unfair.

It may still get re-booked, since it's a property that specifically caters to pet owners, and there aren't many of those around.

I ended up sending him this, which I think is more than generous: "Unfortunately we have to stick to our cancellation policy for events beyond our control. If you need to cancel we will immediately reopen those nights on our calendar and if we get another booking I'll be happy to refund you for whatever we are able re-book. If it does not get re-booked I can offer you a credit of $159 (1-night of your existing booking) for a future stay."

Stay tuned!



Post: Refund extenuating circumstances beyond your cancellation policy?

Dave Stokley
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 676
  • Votes 792

Am I making my life too complicated if I offer to refund him IF he cancels AND the property gets booked by another guest?

Post: Refund extenuating circumstances beyond your cancellation policy?

Dave Stokley
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 676
  • Votes 792
Quote from @John Underwood:

I would say now because you can not control the weather and it is a short notice cancellation.

I would offer a discount on a future stay to try and keep from getting a bad review.

 The booking is 3 nights for $530. What sort of credit would you offer?

Post: Refund extenuating circumstances beyond your cancellation policy?

Dave Stokley
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 676
  • Votes 792
Quote from @Brennen Thompson:

Hey Dave, 

Definitely a tough call! Before I was in RE investing I worked for The Walt Disney Company, and if I learned one thing, it's that customer service trumps all. Although it may be a tough pill to swallow right now, granting the refund might pay divedends in the future. Especially if you grant the refund request under the condition that they leave you a review. 

Not apples to apples here, but Disney almost always gave guests anything they requested, even if it was at a loss to them. In my opinion, it's no coincidence that they can charge $5 for a bottle of water and get people to stay customers for life.

Yes, I hear that. I've read "Be Our Guest" multiple times and have even forced our employees to read it :)

On the other hand, I believe Disney sets their (insane) prices based on this policy, and we set ours based on our policy.

We try to emulate the best hospitality brands as much as possible, but at the end of the day we are not and cannot be or compete with Disney or major hotel brands, and we're not trying to.

Also, for the record, if they cancel they will not have the opportunity to leave a review.

Post: Refund extenuating circumstances beyond your cancellation policy?

Dave Stokley
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 676
  • Votes 792
Today is the second time in the past few weeks that a guest has asked us to allow them to cancel for a full refund the day before their stay because of bad weather where they live that may prevent them from traveling. We have a "moderate" (full refund 5 days out) cancellation policy. What would you do?

I'll go first, with what may not be a popular opinion...

We say no, for two reasons. First, our cancellation policy is clear and easy to find when the booking is made, and it's easy to filter by cancellation policy on Airbnb. Second, Airbnb has its own "extenuating circumstances policy," so they've already determined what is justifiable and what is not. I refer these guests to Airbnb support to request consideration under their policy.

What say you?

Post: multifamily for STR

Dave Stokley
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 676
  • Votes 792

Yes it can work but you should expect to charge lower rates than a single family home. And you really need to set expectations upfront.

Post: Novel Idea: DOUBLE DECKER BUS into a Profitable Airbnb

Dave Stokley
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 676
  • Votes 792

Yeah I've considered this too, every time I drive by one decaying in a nearby parking lot. One thing to consider is zoning... where will you actually be allowed to park this thing and use it for this purpose.