All Forum Posts by: Derreck Wells

In MA you cannot rent to a family with a child under 7 unless you have a lead certificate on file with the state. Check your state's laws. 

Also in MA if you try to delead a house without a license, you will get fined and the house will get flagged with Unauthorized Deleading  (UD) and you will never get a lead cert. You could still rent to families, but you would have to jump through hoops and you would get a Letter of Environmental Protection and your insurance will be higher and the property value lower.

As long as the house hasn't been inspected for lead, you can renovate if you follow federal RRP rules. For instance, you could vinyl side the house because the wood is rotted and the paint is peeling and that's legal, but if you do it to delead, it's illegal. The law is about the intent.

Check Florida lead laws before doing anything.

Welcome to the forum Wade!

Are you trying to wholesale the house or flip the house?

@Corey F., if you PM me the address, I can check the database and see if it's ever been inspected for lead paint. 

As we all know, MA is a very tenant friendly state. If I were in your shoes, I'd simply explain to the downstairs tenants that when the noise is going on, they should call the police and not you. Tell them you checked the laws and it's not something you can evict the upstairs tenants over, but maybe if the police show up they might quiet down. 

Do the downstairs tenants have a baby that the noise is keeping awake? Or do they just want quiet time when they get home from work? Either way, get the downstairs tenants to believe you are on their side. 

Tell them if it really bothers them that much, you will let them out of their lease with no legal repercussions and will talk to their new landlord on their behalf. Tell them you will explain to their new landlord that you will be returning their security depost and they will have it as soon as they broom sweep the unit. Some tenants need that deposit to put down on the next apt. as they don't earn enough to come up with another 1st, last, and security. Which could be why they're saying they will withhold rent, to put it away for the next apt. If you are talking to the next landlord and assuring them the tenant will be getting the deposit from you on xx/xx/xx date, they may be willing to let them move in before actually receiving it. However, don't give the money directly to the new landlord without a bulletproof contract from the tenants saying that's okay. You don't want them trying to sue you saying they never got their deposit back.

It's always better if the tenants believe you are on their side, even if they are really the problem tenants. From their perspective, the upstairs tenants are the problem. "If they would just be quiet we wouldn't have to go through all this." When the reality is "If you would just grow up and realize you live in an apt and not a SF home, you wouldn't have to go through all this."

Good luck!

@John Welz I replied to your other post on lead paint. If you PM the address, I can check it in the lead database and see if it's been inspected already.

John, 

1. Lead paint laws apply to buildings built before 1978. If your complex was built later, you will be fine. 
2. As mentioned above, you only have to delead if there will be a child under 7 living there. If the unit has more than 1 bedroom, you will eventually have to do it.
3. If the unit has been inspected, but not deleaded and given a lead cert, do not renovate! You will get flagged for unauthorized deleading (UD) and you will never be able to get a lead cert. You would then have to get a Letter of Environmental Protection, which will lower the value of your property and raise your insurance rates.
4. Deleading generally costs $3000-$5000 per unit. Count the exterior as a separate unit. You can probably get the condo association to pay for the exterior work. It will have to be done. All common areas that your tenant will be reasonably expected to use must be done. For example, if the laundry is in the basement, the basement must be done. If its not then your tenants won't be going in the basement, it doesn't have to be done. "No tenant access" gets written on the paperwork. If your unit is on floor 1 of a 3 floor building, only the 1st floor common areas can be done, you won't have to pay for the 2nd and 3rd floor hallways. BUT if your unit is on the 3rd floor, you will have to do all 3 floors common areas.
5. It's better to delead while the unit is vacant. Less labor for the deleader ( = less cost to you) and if it's occupied, you need to cover the cost of housing your tenants while the work goes on.
6. There are tax credits for deleading and loan programs in MA that you can use that don't have to be paid back until you sell the unit. Also some grant programs.

If you PM me the address, I'll check the database and see if it's been inspected. If it hasn't, I can give you the name of a lead inspector that's very good to work with. 

An inspection costs about $300. You need an inspection, then a deleader takes that report and deleads, then you get a re-inspection, then you get a lead certificate. Usually a re-inspection costs a little less, maybe $250, as its not as labor intensive, it's mostly paperwork at that point.

Andy, another thing to consider is the lead paint status. If there's no lead cert on file with the state, you can't rent to a family with a child under 7. If the units haven't been deleaded, you will be responsible for the work. $3,000-$5,000 per unit (counting the exterior as a seperate unit) is a decent ballpark figure. So your 3 family + ext = 4 unit = $12,000-$20,000 if it hasn't been done yet. If you PM me the address, I can check the database and see if it has ever been inspected. If it hasn't, you have a serious negotiating tool in the fact that you will need to delead. 

I agree @Jay Hinrichs. Whether the health hazards are real or not the laws and fines certainly are real. 

I do believe the lead concerns are real. Every time you drill a hole, you drill through lead paint, creating dust. Every time you open an old window sash, it rubs the frame creating dust. As much as people want to deny it because of the expense involved, it's real. It's been medically proven to cause learning disabilities and anger issues in kids. Watch the video I posted above, she talks about the neurological pathways and how lead blocks them. 

I do my best to keep the costs down when I delead an apartment, but the reality is if every window in the house has lead paint on them, and there's 30 windows, the job gets expensive quick. In MA there are grants and 0% interest loans and 0% interest loans that get paid when you sell the house, so the State is trying to make it affordable for tenants to delead. There may be similar programs in other states, so you should definately check when you have to delead. 

@Rizwan Khan, Do not listen to @Kevin Manz. I can't speak on asbestos as I know next to nothing about it, but I am licensed in lead paint in MA. You are not fine "as long as you give tenants a lead paint disclosure forms". I don't know all of Indiana's lead laws but I just spent a half hour reading this site... IN Lead and Healthy Homes Program... and went through the laws governing Lead Abatement Contractors and it's almost identical to MA. I have to assume that IN landlord/tenant laws are also similar. 

In MA, you cannot rent to a family with a child under 7 unless you have a Lead Certificate on file with the state. Just giving them a lead pamphlet could cost you thousands in fines, more if the child has elevated lead levels, then you can lose the property to the tenant.

If you get cancer, are you going to listen to someone who tells you "You don't need treatment, cancer is only dangerous if it's malignant, yours might be benign, don't worry about it. The Doctors make it out to be worse then it is just so they can charge you to treat it."  (I wonder if you would  say that to someone Kevin?) 

Health hazards aside, there's very likely a law in your state that relates directly to lead paint and renting to families. If Kevin is willing to pay your fines, then sure, don't follow the laws, but I'm pretty sure when you get sued or arrested Kevin will not be around. I'd recommend you talk to your local Board of Health and see what the experts say. If you want to know something about the HVAC system in your house, then talk to Kevin.

Here's a 7 minute video IN put out about lead... Lead Paint: Indiana'a Poisoned Children (Video) ... that will download to your computer in a .wmv format. Here's the Extended Edition & Special Features (28:28) Everyone should watch at least the short version.