All Forum Posts by: Donald S.

Originally posted by @Jennifer Petrillo:

That GC was happy to see you coming! We flip in NJ, a HCOL area where the contractors live better than anyone else and we have never paid that much for this sort of work. $2000 for permits? Ours run $100-200 and we flip very distressed properties that need everything done. Get THREE quotes and break down the job into pieces, not square foot. Read J Scott's Book on Flipping Houses before you go any further. How large is this house? We just had almost all plumbing and electric replaced in our latest flip for under 10K. It is possible they don't actually want the work and are quoting you high just to see if you'll bite.

 So the $/sqft thing was just a breakdown after getting bids. I am currently reading J Scott's book, and finished his book on estimating rehab costs, but so far most of what he's said for estimating is far off for St. Louis. I can say the $/sqft for construction costs is what I've heard from multiple people who have no interest in lying to me (My cousin who is an architect for a large firm in StL, a developer I know, etc). 

As for permits, I did put the wrong amount, after checking with the city, based on our estimated repairs it'll be $865 for permits + $250 for the various inspection visits (middle and ending visits as well as various other inspections for certain trades like roof). $200 for a permit would be great. 

I did just have a guy refer an electrician to me who should be able to do the work for closer to 10k, instead of 15-16k, so that'll help. 

Does anyone have good estimates for how much HVAC with ductwork should cost? 2 Story home, 2300 sqft (2000sqft internal space). And the cost difference for installing the AC unit on the roof? My first HVAC estimator said there's no where to put the AC unit in the back so it'd have to go on the roof (we're looking into alternatives). 

@Chad McIver This is a block off of Cherokee in South city. I'll PM you. Nothing much scares me. I have been talking with a more experienced flipper and we might partner up on the property, He thinks he can do it for cheaper than I've been getting quotes on. I'll be sure to keep this thread updated as things develop. If my business partner and I decide to flip it ourselves, I'll start a new thread to chronicle the journey. 

@Michael Plante here everyone I've talked to says 150-225/sqft for new construction is the going rate. 

@Kenton Coffman I'll PM you. 

Thanks everyone again. We will be moving forward with me GCing myself, and doing some of the work myself. I'm working on getting solid bids once I get floor plans drawn up for how it'll look after converting. This is my first rehab, and I am buying it for less than 10k, so I expect with a 200k arv, there should be plenty of meat left. I know it's unusual to try such a large rehab as my 1st flip, but if I get to the point that I don't feel I can handle it, I have more experienced flippers I can bring in to take over. Or if the numbers look too tight for me, I may end up just wholesaling this to a flipper. 

To be clear, I sourced this deal. It came from a DM Campaign I put out trying to be a wholesaler, I just liked the idea of trying to do this one myself. If it doesn't work out, I'm not married to the proposition, I'll sell it. If we decide to tackle it ourselves (my business partner and I, and he needs to sign off on it to start the work), then I'll make it work, even if I end up doing a ton of the work myself. 

@Bill De Jong the "kitchen and bath cabinets and countertops" was lumped into framing. I know I should break it out, but there were the general categories that the couple of GC's gave me and I combined them to compare. Cabinets and countertops alone I'd put in the 5k range since we plan on a long row, an island, and peninsula, but I know a granite guy that will do all of that for 1400, so that leaves up 3600 for cabinets. I don't know the cost of cabinets honestly so I figured if I GC'd I wouldn't need to sped 3600 on just cabinets/vanities.

Wow, thanks for all the responses. I appreciate the insights, sorry it took a couple of days to reply.

1st, I was planning on wholesaling the property, so I knew my ARV was solid at 200-210+ (depending on finishes and market trends during rehab), and I had an experienced flipper/contractor ballpark me 150k to rehab the property, 100-110 if he was to do it himself. So with that information I was comfortable putting the deal under contract, and for the purchase price I'll find a way to make money on it.

But I’m considering trying to do the flip myself instead of wholesaling (a legit wholesale where we close and then at a later date sell to a flipper, not an assignment). So with that…

@Nancy Zhao I’m thinking yes I’ll have to GC myself if we want to make this profitable and do the flip ourselves. I have been getting GC’s to give me 10% fudge factor budgets, while also getting subs to get me bids. I’ve gotten a few solid bids that won’t change based on final layout, and a few 5-10% budget estimates that could change based on layout etc…

@Jason D., the contractors are breaking out by generic line items at this point, by end of next week I should have floor plans and schematics that will allow me to get detailed SOW and bids.

@Wayne Brooks, I know they can’t give a detailed bid, I’ve walked them through the property and showed them the general idea of our plans, and asked them to come up with a 10% variable budget (i.e. 100k +/- 10%). Some haven’t been willing to do that, and I understand, which is why I’m having the plans drawn up and will get them to the contractors asap.

@Jim Adrian it's a complete guy, sans most of the flooring, because the place has been vacant for 10 years, the plaster ceiling is falling down everywhere, walls need to be reconfigured to make it fit a SFH instead of a Duplex better, Mechanicals all need replacing due to rodent/critter damage, and city code will require electrical service upgrade and new water service, etc… It'll be a fun project, has good bones, just the soft meaty stuff inside that sucks.

@Account Closed if I GC myself, even if I don’t, I’ll probably end up doing some of the work myself. I’m good at Tiling and really like it actually, I CAN do a lot of the work, but 2300 sqft is quite a lot to tackle alone.

Here’s some of the numbers I’ve been getting:

Demo: 6500 + Dumpsters (395/40yd probably need 3 40’s)

Roof: 6910 (real bid, replace some sheathing, repair penetrations, repair gutter, spray entire roof with 100% silicone roofing sealant (the white stuff that’s UV reflective).

Tuckpointing: 4500 (back wall of property about 5’ wide and the entire 2 stories needs tuckpointing)

Plans: 5000

Permits: 2000

Framing: 27000 (this I think is insane, but hard to tell without knowing what walls need to be moved/reframed) What’s a good cost on framing in St. Louis?

Doors (interior): est 15 doors, 2700

Windows (18): 7200 (real bid not estimate)

Drywall: 13000

Painting (interior): 8100

Electrical: bids from 11k-21k includes all fixtures, outlets, etc…

Plumbing: 11k-18k (including new water service 1” pipe, and all fixtures)

HVAC: 22k (new systems, new ductwork) This also seems high to me, thoughts?

Flatwork: 3800, new front stairs and side stairs yard stairs & drainage culvert

Carport/garage hybrid: 5400-8500

Convert front doors to 1 door: 3000

Carpentry finishes and trim: 4000

Appliances: 5000

So that puts us in 150-170k range on rehab. If any of these look odd, and you're familiar with the midwest or STL in particular feel free to shout out or PM me. 

So, I hope this doesn't come off as whining or complaining. I'm purchasing a property in a few days, an up and coming neighborhood that is rife with rehabs and perfect for flipping. I'm trying to get my costs estimates from contractors, and so far I'm getting $75 to $80/sq ft. And that's after meeting with them, talking them through my plans etc. But selling costs in the area according to arv sold comps is only 85-90/sq ft. So how do I make it costs less to rehab? it would need to be about 60/sq ft to make a good profit. How do you rehabbers make the numbers work? this is a nearly full gut, floors stay, everything else goes. moving walls, new mechanicals, etc. also I guess I know now to draw up rehab plans before engaging contractors. Its been hard for them to give me estimates without knowing for sure what the layout will be, but architect plans run 3 to 10k from what I've found. any tips? Thank you, cheers!

Does he contract for full rehab remodels? I may be doing a full guy flip and will need a good kitchen contractor. 

@Astrid Dymond are you coming to the happy hour tonight?

Originally posted by @Shawn Newman:

anymore meetups Planned?

Last Thursday of every month, same place. Megan may have forgotten to post it this month. 

It's Tonight. Same bat place, same bat time. Hope to see you there!  

Tom, St. Louis city population has declined slightly still, but the county numbers have increased slightly, for a marginal increase to the region. 

For the city areas you described I would look into the Cherokee street area, Benton Park West. Rehabbed homes are going for 200k, and there's rehabs to be bought for dirt cheap. My first flip, assuming I get it under contract in a couple days, will be in this area. 

Good luck. If you want someone to go around with you, I am always willing to help.

Hi all. I'm going to be starting my 1st flip soon and am looking for GC recommedations in St. Louis.

I'm considering doing the GC myself, but feel I need to have a few come out and bid the project for me before I decide. So any recommedations would be greatly appreciated. 

Its a full gut conversion from duplex to single family in South Saint Louis City.

On the other side if you know good contractors for trades, if I GC myself, I'll take those recommendations also. feel free to respond here or pm me.

mods: if I can't ask for recommendations here please feel free to move this to the marketplace.

Cheers!