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All Forum Posts by: Daniel Smithson

Daniel Smithson has started 1 posts and replied 52 times.

Post: mobile home investing

Daniel SmithsonPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 39

Hi Michael - I think a better approach would be to buy your own small park if that's your goal. There are thousands of properties that aren't really considered parks with 2 - 10 MHs on them (there's not really a definitive cut off for what is a park and what isn't). This would be better/easier than trying to convince park owners to subdivide their investment properties.


As an added bonus, there isn't nearly as much money chasing these smaller deals so they are often priced well (although they are rarely tenant owned homes so plan to divest the homes). The downside is that you lose the economies of scale of a larger property so your expense ratio tends to be higher unless you are good with being very hands-on. Not a bad way to learn the business model though!

Post: MH on land - To RENT vs SELL?

Daniel SmithsonPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 39

Russell Gray of the Real Estate Guys always says: “Do the math and the math will tell you what to do!"

It really just boils down to what your goal is - do you want to get a higher sales price and some cash flow along the way to the sale, potentially risking getting the MH back again in a default? Lease Option.  Do you want to cash out the asset and reinvest the difference after tax? Cash sale.

Most banks are okay with MHs so long as they are sold with the land. They are much more hesitant to lend on a home without land as part of the sales package. At that point, you would need to look into a chattel lender for your buyer but that's not the case here.

Agents shouldn't be hard to come by either. A MH isn't all that different from a SFH, they just tend to appraise for less. You may want to look into what it would take to place the home on a permanent foundation, giving up the title and selling it as real property. You may get a higher valuation that way, but talk to a local appraiser first.

If I was making the decision, I'd probably go for a cash sale based on your numbers. I'd base that decision on the general rule that an unattached MH will depreciate over time, weakening your position later if your lease option buyer didn't exercise the option to purchase (ie you get back a trashed MH that's worth less than when you originally leased it). If it were a SFH (or attached MH, see appraiser caveat) that would appreciate, it would make more sense to take that risk of a default on the LO as the home would maintain it's value, rehab costs being the same between scenarios.

Post: Rehabbing used vs buying new mobiles on land for rental use

Daniel SmithsonPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 39

Are you planning to surrender the titles to the Mfg Homes so that they become real property? If not, the homes will not likely appreciate in the way that you're hoping. If you do surrender title, many lenders/states will still require the home be set onto a full code compliant foundation (check local laws) adding to the expense. 

It's an interesting thought exercise, but help me clarify what your end goal is going to be. Are you wanting to flip/sell or hold? Very different strategies with different approaches. 


This all applies to buying and holding homes to build a portfolio:

Something to consider and some really good advice that I got a long time ago - SFHs (and MHs especially) were never built or designed to be investment vehicles like MF housing. You give up all of the economies of scale that MF housing has and trade them for multiple failure points (multiple roofs, HVAC units, septics, etc) and space them far apart so they're harder to manage. 

Likewise, you need to consider your end buyer. If you sell homes individually, your exit valuations will be based on the values of how a home buyer values a home (amenities, features, view, age of home), not how an investor values a property (cash flow, future appreciation, NOI). The desired home buyer amenities are usually cash flow killers, pitting your strategy against itself. If you're hoping to sell as a portfolio to an investor, your rural strategy will likely work against you for the stated downsides of SFH/MH investing - you're cutting your upfront costs but that will limit your exits as well.

If you're holding it as a land play, then so long as you're in the "path of progress" and sell when you're no longer in rural land, it would work. But again, a different strategy. 

Post: Story Time — Your First MHP Deal

Daniel SmithsonPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 39

I can't hold a candle to Frank's experience, but this is where we're at currently:

My wife and I purchased our first park in August of 2018, just outside of Chattanooga, TN (MSA 550,000). We found it on the local commercial MLS but the broker was willing to let us talk directly to the owners. At the time, it had 17 of 50 lots filled and paying - all but 4 were run down POH. There were additional homes on the property that were not rentable or producing income.

We used the owner's existing local banking relationship to rewrite a fully amortized loan (15 year, ugh) on the main portion of the park. I'm still amazed they wrote this given the occupancy, but they were already liable on the loan so that helped. The seller carried a 3-year interest-only loan on an additional adjacent lot (part of the 50 MH lots) that we're developing and adding homes to currently. 

We've raised lot rents to market on our few TOH with some intended turn over ($0 to $250 is a big jump). Most people living in a POH have been converted to rent credit or leases with an option to purchase, along with rents being moved to market pricing. We've sub-metered water and as of this month moved from a dumpster to poly carts that the residents pay for each month.

Revenue started at $6,800/mo and we're now collecting about $14k/mo, not including trash and water bill backs, on 29 occupied lots. We're still pretty heavy on POH but slowly moving them off the books.

We're starting the process to refi the package together within the next year to pay off the seller and our friends and family investors who came into the deal with us.

A few lessons learned:

1. Go to the MHU Bootcamp before you buy a park. Haha! Seriously, you can't get enough education in this space.

2. It's not easy, but it will come if you're diligent - converting POH to TOH, infill, collections - it all takes longer than you think it should.

3. New homes are much easier than trying to BRRRRR (extra "R" for relocate) old homes. If you follow Frank's advice, you're only in it for the lot rent anyway so don't get greedy on the homes sales side. Anything to quickly get greater scale and spread of risk here is better. If you do refinance a used home, you likely won't get all of your money back out so it is capital intensive.

3a. Renovating MHs is a gamble. We've renovated several of our newer (90's or better) homes with varying success. Some can be sales-ready for a few hundred dollars and we had one that didn't look too bad which ended up costing nearly $20k. Rim joists are hidden and expensive. (I have many more renovation lessons, but that's not necessarily park-related). 

3b. You can't be in the park business without being in the home business at some point.

4. Dumpsters are terrible. I should have canceled this before we did anything else in the park. The trucks tear up the roads, residents think that trash beside the dumpster is as good as inside if it even makes it that far. We recently switched to poly carts charged back to the residents, and I've never been thanked so much for increasing my NOI.

5. Location is everything - It's an old axiom for a reason. Even though we're 30 mins outside of the main city, we're still within a 1/2 mile of a Super Walmart and the adjoining satellite stores that follow. This alone has been a major selling point for residents. 

6. Giving residents a path to purchase helps sales, not necessarily turn over. Whether it's rent credit or lease options, people seem to really love the idea of owning their own home and it will draw people to your property. They still may not always stay or have an "owner mentality."

7. There are no perfect resident applications - the majority of people are good, decent, hard-working individuals who want to do the right thing - they just need help managing money. But still, do not skimp on background checks, employment verifications, rental history, etc.

8. Don't ever handle money in the park, especially with a park manager doing collections. We had rules in place for no cash, always give receipts, etc. Despite that, some residents got lazy, the manager let them slip and pay with cash and then receipt books disappeared. Thankfully we caught that early but the damage was done. Online payments, PayLease (or similar) or even direct bank deposits (into a dedicated deposit-only account) are all preferable. 

9. A good maintenance contractor is worth their weight in gold - pay them well unless you enjoy unclogging backed up sewer lines at 2 am.

10. There is strength in numbers - find and network with other park owners. They will give you advice and pull you out of hot water when you need it most. 

11. Don't let your lender hold titles to the homes with the park loan. These were rolled into our original loan due to it being the existing setup with the previous owner. We were up front of our intent to sell the homes off and setting release prices, but the bank has been slow to respond to releasing titles. It's a big kink in the sales process. Regardless, a good relationship with your lender is a plus.

I'd +1 Franks comments on pride of ownership as well. I'll long remember the day that I first saw this in action. We had just purchased the park along with all of its previous owner's neglect. I showed up with a rake, a shovel and a chainsaw to just do some simple clean up around the common areas and some of the POHs. After an hour or two, people started coming out of their homes and sweeping their porches and putting trash away and picking up their yards. The niece of the original owner/developer of the park came over to me nearly in tears, thanking me for showing a little love to the place. It's still not perfect, but we try our hardest to set the example for everyone else and they do follow. 

And yes, everyone around me thinks I'm nuts!

Post: SECO '20 - Community Owners (Virtual) Conference

Daniel SmithsonPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 39

Hi All!

It's been a hot minute since I've been on the BP forums but just wanted to share something I'm involved with this year. I normally would not hawk a conference or product, but SECO is a great event and is a non-profit, with any proceeds above the cost of the conference going to support military and first responders living in manufactured housing. There was a lot of debate on whether or not to even put the conference on this year with the COVID situation, but they eventually decided to move forward with it as a virtual conference. 

I was skeptical of that at first, but the platform they're using is actually pretty neat and is as close as anyone has gotten in the virtual space to an in-person meeting. Most importantly, the education and networking opportunities are still there. Most of the presentations that they're putting on will also be live with a Q&A time afterward so it's not just a paywall to a bunch of videos.

There are three different tracks this year as well - aspiring owners, operators and MH sales - so there something for everyone. Since the schedule isn't finalized I can't name drop but there are certainly some industry titans that are presenting and will be available for networking as well.

There's some additional information below from a recent flyer and I'm happy to field any questions!

---

For over 10 years, SECO has been the premier conference for owning and managing successful manufactured home communities. Each year, more than 400 community owners, managers, and other manufactured housing industry personnel from 35-plus states attend. And as a nonprofit 501(c)(3) organization, net proceeds fund projects for veterans and first responders living in manufactured housing communities.

SECO gives you the chance to meet other community owners who are doing, or have done, what you want to do so you can learn from their experiences, failures, and success.
This year, SECO is going virtual with a unique visual-based event platform that closely replicates the structure and networking opportunities of a live event, including exhibitor booths and virtual homes.

New Format, New Price!

With our new online format, SECO the cost to attend will be less than previous years. Plus, you'll be able to attend from the comfort of your home or office with no travel or hotel expenses.
NEW THIS YEAR – MANAGER MONDAY!
Plus, this year we're introducing our first annual "Manager Monday" workshops on September 28th, with programming geared specifically for community managers. For only $49, you can attend this new series of Pre-SECO workshops that will give you valuable insights on managing your community, including day-to-day operations and resident relations.

Meet New Business Partners & Suppliers
Once again, we are bringing together a carefully curated group of companies that offer products and services useful to community owners and managers. These valuable partners are an important part of SECO and each one is individually introduced to help you get to know them. Plus, ample time is provided during the event for one-on-one meetings with these industry professionals so you can build relationships and find new vendors to team up with.

Educational Workshops & Roundtables
Like previous years, SECO20 will feature speakers and educational content that will spark ideas for generating revenue, cutting costs, increasing sales, and operating your park more efficiently.

SECO20 educational programming will include topics such as:

  • Best practices during COVID-19
  • Financing and options for raising capital
  • Marketing your community effectively
  • Selling versus renting homes
  • Case studies of successful communities
  • New trends in manufactured housing
  • Tips for new land-lease community owners
  • Developing a new community (or renovating an existing one)
  • State of our industry and its future
  • Online reputation management
  • And so much more!

Priceless Networking
Networking is one of the most priceless parts of SECO every year. And even though SECO20 is going virtual, our planning team took special care to select an event platform that provides robust networking opportunities. At this year's event, you'll be able to chat with fellow attendees and sponsors individually or in small groups, and even have face-to-face video meetings right within the SECO20 event platform!

---

September 28 - October 1st, 2020

More information and registration links here: SECO Conference

Disclosure: I am on the planning committee for the conference and receive no compensation. Just hoping to bring some awareness to the event since events are so sparse this year (and also hoping this doesn't violate any spam policies, not my intent!). 

Post: Has anyone gone to a Mobile Home University 3-day "boot camp"?

Daniel SmithsonPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 39

Since this came back up, I'll +1 the MHU Bootcamp. My wife and I both attended in October of 2018 after closing our first park that August. The course potentially would have saved us $50 - 100k on our purchase if we had done things in the "right" order and properly implemented all of the due diligence. Live and learn! That alone would have paid for the course many times over so the value is definitely there.

Post: Is there a regular Chattanooga Tennessee Meet up?

Daniel SmithsonPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 39

A quick update to this thread, the REIA meeting has moved for this month (at least) to Hilton Garden Inn, 2343 Shallowford Village Drive, Chattanooga.

https://www.meetup.com/ChattanoogaREIA/events/2372...

Post: Is there a regular Chattanooga Tennessee Meet up?

Daniel SmithsonPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 39

@Betsey Davis Yes! Same bat time, same bat channel. 

Pro tip: the hostess/employees didn't seem to have any idea that the meeting was happening. Simply walk straight back past the buffet and the room will be on the right.

Post: Is there a regular Chattanooga Tennessee Meet up?

Daniel SmithsonPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 39

I'm a little late here but just wanted to follow up on my previous. The meetings are $15 at the door plus food if you want to eat. The last meeting was great and the information presented was on point. Hope to see everyone there next month as well.

Post: Is there a regular Chattanooga Tennessee Meet up?

Daniel SmithsonPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 39

@Paul Honen  - yes, same time and place!  Asian Buffet, 6901 Lee Highway

@Jessica Dunkle  - this will be my first meeting as well, but I've sent them a message to verify if there are any fees for the monthly meetings. From what I understand, there is a small fee to attend + the amount to eat. I'll verify as soon as I hear back!

See everyone there!