All Forum Posts by: Engelo Rumora

Quote from @Rick Bassett:

@Engelo Rumora we would thank them for the opportunity and then elaborate the terms in which we would do business with them, while pretty much ignoring everything that they’ve asked for.

Thanks Rick,

I like it

I appreciate your reply 

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone 

OK just actually read this..  they want to micro manage you.. sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.. In my mind PM HAS to make money on repairs etc. And having them talk directly with your contractors trying to beat them down will drag things out and probably cause you to lose vendors..  thats my two cents on it From someone who has never owned a PM company but has managed a lot of my own stuff..

 You can't get an apartment painted for $300 by anyone other than a drug addict. These guys sound like slumlord pieces of crap who's only profit margin is created by stiffing PM's, Contractors and anyone else they "do business with". Post their info, let's look into their background. I am sure we'd find lawsuits and dirt with a very moderate dive into them.

I did know of apartment specific painters that would do rooms for 100 each and the whole 900 sq ft apartment for r900 including paint.. but that was 20 plus years ago.

 These turds probably make Marko look like a legitimate businessman.

My thought is there are cultural influences at play here

People can call me racist or prejudice all they want.

I'm none and never will be.

I'm realist but there is something to be said about cultural influences mate.

I've witnessed many of them over 5,000+ investor intro calls and will leave it that.

I'll protect my company and team first and foremost.

Revenue and profit is secondary.

Who $#@%'s on my team, $#%@'s on me also and we fire them in a heart beat.

The team works way to hard to get abused via email, etc...

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone 

OK just actually read this..  they want to micro manage you.. sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.. In my mind PM HAS to make money on repairs etc. And having them talk directly with your contractors trying to beat them down will drag things out and probably cause you to lose vendors..  thats my two cents on it From someone who has never owned a PM company but has managed a lot of my own stuff..

 You can't get an apartment painted for $300 by anyone other than a drug addict. These guys sound like slumlord pieces of crap who's only profit margin is created by stiffing PM's, Contractors and anyone else they "do business with". Post their info, let's look into their background. I am sure we'd find lawsuits and dirt with a very moderate dive into them.

haha, Glad I tagged you mate.

You are my kinda guy lol

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone 

OK just actually read this..  they want to micro manage you.. sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.. In my mind PM HAS to make money on repairs etc. And having them talk directly with your contractors trying to beat them down will drag things out and probably cause you to lose vendors..  thats my two cents on it From someone who has never owned a PM company but has managed a lot of my own stuff..

Agreed mate,

I have no idea why they are even considering hiring a property manager.

We will send them out terms and I'm sure they will bulk at them.

But it is what it is.

I learnt a long time ago that you must be willing to say "No" to good opportunities so that you can say "Yes" to great ones.

I'm also proud of the team as this would be a chunky commission for Sean but even he isn't for taking on this business under current terms.

Quote from @Alan F.:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone 

 As you know I'm not a PM, I'm a contractor, but do contract to some large PM's. If I was approached about 4&5 they'd be looking for a different contractor. As you mentioned, it's my business and I set the terms. Just my $ 02

Thanks mate,

Appreciate the reply 

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

my advice is to talk to @Nathan Gesner   as well..  I am no expert on PM .

As for expanding your business  its just a math problem and do the numbers work.

best of luck with it..

Thanks Jay,

I forgot about tagging Nathan.

I don't think he likes me that much though haha 

Quote from @Drew Sygit:

@Engelo Rumora couldn't agree more!

We often have problems with Realtors that bring us potential tenants. They don't like documenting anything or following our processes. They just want their client approved to get their commission check.

Thanks mate,

Yep, they are sales/commission based.

Not service based like 100% only property managers.

Just tagged you on another thread.

Would love your opinion mate.

Cheers amigo 

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone 

G’Day everyone,

In today’s newsletter, I’m diving into a topic that might stir some debate: the challenges many realtors face when they step into the world of property management.

1. The Reluctant Property Manager

Often, realtors find themselves “forced” into property management. This shift typically happens due to client demands rather than a genuine interest in property management. While the lure of recurring income is tempting, many realtors underestimate the complexity of the role. It's only a matter of time before they become overwhelmed, leading to a situation where they "give up" and focus solely on sales. Consequently, property management gets done haphazardly, just to keep existing clients satisfied.

Do you agree? Have you experienced this shift yourself? If not, what has your experience been?

2. Lack of Resources and Focus

Realtors often lack the time, resources, or will to manage properties as effectively as a brokerage dedicated solely to property management. Here’s a quick tip: Compare the listing description of a rental property from a “Realtor Brokerage” to one from a Property Management Brokerage. The differences are striking, often highlighting the latter's thoroughness and attention to detail.

Have you noticed the difference?

3. Prioritizing Property Management

For successful property management, the focus needs to be 100% on tenant and landlord relations. In property management, issues tend to "funnel upwards," making it crucial to delight tenants with an excellent customer experience. Happy tenants mean timely rent payments, which ensures the property management team collects its fees, and landlords receive their income—a win/win/win scenario.

Realtors, on the other hand, often prioritize sales, with property management taking a backseat. In contrast, property management-focused brokerages dedicate themselves entirely to property management, sometimes offering sales assistance as an affiliate service.

Quick Tip: Look at other Toledo brokerage websites. Can you tell if they are sales-focused or solely property management-focused?

Oz Realty for example is solely property management-focused.

Let's Hear From You!

What do you think? Do you agree that property management should be a dedicated focus, or do you believe realtors can effectively manage both sales and property management? If you disagree, why?

Share your thoughts, experiences, and any tips you have for balancing these two aspects of real estate.

I look forward to hearing your insights and continuing this important conversation.

Regards,

Engelo Rumora

G'Day everyone,

Over the years, I've joked around quite a bit with this topic as a "click bait" heading but no jokes this time.

I've seen a common trend with many of you believing that you can successfully invest in Toledo from out of state without buying turnkey.

Unfortunately, I don't think you can but who am I to judge.

I even composed a guide with my team about Why You Should NEVER Finance, BRRR, or DIY Out of State Unless You Are Buying Turnkey

Long of the short is this:

1. You are mostly likely only buying deals from the MLS or a **** wholesaler that over-inflates the ARV.
2. Your contractor is delivering an over the top rehab and you are overcapitalizing on the product.
3. Your property manager is killing you with fee's and there is no responsibility from anyone (Realtor, Contractor or PM) as everyone is pointing the finger at one another.

Am I right?

I won't even touch on the time you spend "networking", sourcing deals, project managing rehabs, etc...

Not just that, but you end of being into a deal for 30% if not more that you would if you just bought a turnkey property from Ohio Cashflow.

But hey, suit yourself and do what you think is best.

Just as I am considering now what is best for Ohio Cashflow.

We are playing with the idea of closing our doors to all new investors and only focusing on our existing investor base.

Not only that, we would only consider taking on new investors that want to invest a minimum of $250,000 in our turnkey properties (We will update our investor application and nobody will be able to submit the form unless they can show a proof of funds with a minimum of $250,000)

Why? Because we have found that the most unsatisfied and problematic investors are those that buy 1 or 2 properties and expect miracles.

For many years now I have preached that in order to succeed when investing in sub $100,000 cash-flowing Toledo properties, you have to build a large portfolio.

Buying 1 or 2 properties isn't worth the headache or risk for neither you nor us.

With this new structure in place, we will go above and beyond for our existing investors by offering a turnkey product for below market value.

Yep, full renovated, tenanted, in B class areas, offering 10% net returns or better that are fully turnkey for substantially below market value...

I've been offering turnkey properties since 2014 and Ohio Cashflow is one of the rare true turnkey providers that is still around and have lived long enough to fight another day.

That should say something.

With all that said, I don't know any other turnkey provider nationwide that can offer true turnkey properties for below market value.

Do you?

How can we offer true turnkey properties for below market value? It's simple, we reduce the amount of deals we sell, we only work with limited and loyal investors, we negotiate harder on the price and we compromise on our profit margin.

Why would we do this? It's also simple, because less is more and I'd rather focus on a select few with genuine and aggressive growth intentions than others with non realistic expectation.

As for the rest of the crowd, I'm sorry and by my guest by continuing to pay $40,000 - $50,000 (A few "little birdies" in town told me that's how much most of you spend) for rehabs and trying to do it all by yourself.

What do you think?

Am I out of line with this way of thinking?

Why?

Regards,
Engelo Rumora