All Forum Posts by: Engelo Rumora

I am just curious about out of state / out of country investing. I would love to learn if there is anyone who is engaging in that? What are some of the difficulties that you consistently run into? What are the successes that you are finding? What benefits are you learning you have over local real estate investing? What are some tips that you would suggest?

Thank you!

G'Day Hughston,

The best advice I could give would be to not invest out of state unless you buy turnkey.

But that's just me being biased.

The second best advice I can give is to focus more on the people that you will be working with over the stats/demographics of a specific area.

I'm sure that this has been covered many times in the various BP books but to this day it rings true.

You will heavily have to rely on the folks on the ground.

They will either make or brake your investment so choose them wisely.

If you buy the best house, on the best street, in the best area with the best capital growth projections.

But your property manager is incompetent or a cheat.

You will loose money.

So, team first, area second.

Much success

1 Vote

Starting Out

Post: Should I sell cash flowing property to buy 2 more with the cash?

Engelo Rumora

Posted July 16, 2024 17:09

Investor
Toledo, OH
Posts 4,536
Votes 2,088

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Never sell a high-performing property with no cap ex and low maintenance to buy another rental. It sounds good in theory to split one into more, but you want to keep banking equity on this one as it requires nothing from you and pays you money which is the whole goal of real estate investing. You are trying to move too quickly. Use your savings and equity to get the next one and keep this one.

100% agreed here.

"Why fix it if it isn't broken?"

Some deals just "work" from day 1 and everything falls into place.

Others don't work out no matter what you do.

I've done hundreds of them in my local market and would only sell if it was one of those doozy type deals.

Funny thing is, a property I own next door might be fine.

But for whatever reason the cursed property just isn't lol.

If you are wanting to use the equity, then use it to "Gung Ho" and full time.

Meaning, don't buy turnkey and use the capital to buy, fix and flip instead.

Money makes money and being very hands on and active, you can get to where you want to be quicker.

Just my opinion.

Thanks

0 Votes

Atlanta, Georgia

Quote from @Drew Sygit:

Often true and a challenging part of the business: managing owner expectations!

Many think a PMC is another word for "go'fer" or personal assistant.

Had an owner yesterday wanting to schedule an appointment with our staff at 8pm EST! Had to explain we're open 9am-6pm and unless they wanted to pay overtime rates, no one would be available at that time. They were NOT happy with that answer.

Well that's cute...

Drew mate, you don't seem like a "Kiss A$$" guy.

What is your churn?

Do you fire many?

Thanks

0 Votes

Toledo, Ohio

@David Kanarek

I don't think I have ever seen better investigative research than this.

Hat's off to you and sorry for your troubles and everyone else's.

Please don't investigate me haha

0 Votes

Quote from @James Wise:

Investing in real estate is a great way to increase your net worth. However your investments are only as good as the team you hire to manage them. When investing in rental properties, especially out of state rental properties, hiring a good property manager is one of the most important things you can do. OzRealty owner and Property management expert Engelo Rumora says hiring the right property manager isn't enough though. After you've hired the right property management team to handle your investment portfolio it's incredibly important that you take a step back and allow them to do the job you've hired them to do. A needy landlord doesn't add any value to the situation. Tune in to HoltonWiseTV for more real estate investing tips and tricks.

Engelo Rumora on Needy Landlords | HoltonWiseTV Highlights

CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE VIDEO

Hit me up to talk about investing in the following markets.

- Cleveland, Ohio

- Columbus, Ohio

- Akron, Ohio

- Canton, Ohio

- Cincinnati, Ohio

- Dayton, Ohio

- Miamisburg, Ohio

- Elyria, Ohio

- Lorain, Ohio

- Toledo, Ohio

--- I work with that Australian slice of man pie @Engelo Rumora & the blonde bombshell @Dominique Osborn as well as the rest of the OzRealty team on my Toledo deals. Ask them about it.

- Warren, Ohio

- Hamilton, Ohio

- Lakewood, Ohio

- Garfield Heights, Ohio

- Euclid, Ohio

- Maple Heights, Ohio

- Ashtabula, Ohio

- Conneaut, Ohio

- Sandusky, Ohio

- Vermilion, Ohio

- Lima, Ohio

- Dublin, Ohio

- Springfield, Ohio

- Detroit, Michigan

--- I work with those pieces of juicy man meat @Drew Sygit & @Michael Smythe as well as the rest of the Logical Property Management team on my Detroit deals. Ask them about it.

- San Antonio, Texas

- Birmingham, Alabama

- Orlando, Florida

--- I work with that bearded bro brisket @Zach Lemaster and the rest of the Rent To Retirement team to bring you freaks Build to Rent deals in several markets including Birmingham, Alabama; San Antonio, Texas; & Orlando, Florida. Ask them about it.

CLICK HERE for Lender Financing

CLICK HERE for Seller Financing

CLICK HERE for General Contractor Referrals

CLICK HERE for a Personalized Turnkey Experience on ANY Property in the markets listed above.

haha,

Finger crossed we don't get suspended after this one lol

0 Votes

Toledo, Ohio

Out of State Investing

Post: Experience of OOS investing in Cleveland after 1.5 years.

Engelo Rumora

Posted July 15, 2024 18:20

Investor
Toledo, OH
Posts 4,536
Votes 2,088

Quote from @John Fleming:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Hi everyone, I started investing in Cleveland about a year and a half ago and have acquired 6 LTRs (SFH and MFH) using mainly the BRRRR method in C areas. I've done fairly big renovations where in most cases, Im replacing almost everything in/on the house. First year has been tons of learning and despite all the research and preparation I did, I still did mistakes and learned things the hard way. I went with one of the biggest PMs that everybody vouched for, yet it took them forever to even place a tenant, and once they did, the tenants never paid on time. Additionally, despite the houses being newly renovated, every month there were new expenses and something breaking, almost as if they want me to not cashflow. The PM said they don't up-charge, but most repairs and expenses were ridiculously high. The result of this? No cashflow, in fact Im in the negative for almost every property so far, and yes I do put aside money for vacancies, capex, and repairs. I finally switched PMs recently and the new one seems much better but Im still getting pretty frequent repairs though much cheaper than the previous PM. The problem is that in this market, getting $2-300 a month cashflow is about as good as it gets, and one furnace, one turnover or whatever and that takes out the cashflow for that year, or even puts you in the negative.

Lets just say the experience hasn't been great, yet. Im trying to stay hopeful that it will turn around but I just keep receiving blow after blow. Just recently got hit with a 10K sewer line repair. I know, its my fault I didn't inspect the sewer line but in my defense, having such inspection contingencies makes it nearly impossible to find a viable BRRRR deal, as there are several investors lined up ready to pay more, in cash, and no contingencies. Im now starting to doubt wether or not Cleveland is actually a good market to invest in? Majority of the houses are old and require frequent repairs in addition to a poor tenant base that can't pay on time and don't care about their credit. On paper it looks good, but the reality is a different story. Im wondering if other markets might be better, with somewhat newer houses and higher quality tenants? But the thing with those markets are you'd be happy to break even, so even if repairs are less and tenant quality is better, I feel like it would end up being the same result.

For those of you that invest in Cleveland, do you have similar experiences? If not, what do you think you might be doing differently to make it work better?

I TRIED to help you but you " know better". I get on avg 800 per month NET income 15- 20% NET (based on cash purchases) on SF, and more on my duplex's. My maintenance is little to nothing as we do the reno correctly. I also tried to help you with PM I'm aware of them all 99% are terrible and will charge you 3k to replace a furnace when the real cost is about 1600. I just got $900 for a 1 br in East Cleveland. I'm going to get 1500 for a 3 br in Lee Harvard, fully renovated all in 75k, do the math :)

All the best

Im not interested in buying turnkey and also not buying cash, I would run out of money real quick. I need to be doing BRRRR thats the only way to scale somewhat fast. Im glad you're doing good.

but if your negative cash flow your bleeding your money anyways.. instead of buying a property in a better local that is rehabbed better than you can do. And actually being cash positive instead of negative at least your post says your cash negative not making any money so you are eroding your cash by feeding these.. not to mention the incredible risk you take with remote rehab and the time involved .. If your paying cash to buy and rehab then refinancing I get that.. but your still paying for two closing costs. And if you finance the buy then you have money there.. just some things to think about.

Thats fair but Im assuming there is a little bit of a learning curve before you get it right? If I buy turnkey, Im putting 25% down on any property, which is like 30-45K in Cleveland, and Im still at risk of running into issues because we all know that most turnkey properties aren't actually turnkey, they're lipstick on a pig. Im more interested to learn what I can maybe change or improve to make BRRRR strategy work, not change strategy completely where I can buy maybe 1 property a year instead of 3-4.

well you might want to take a look at the new crop of Turnkey the folks i do business there are hardly lip sticks on pigs.. I know I fund the deals and pay for the rehab . my clients put on brand new roofs new panels all new wiring new plumbing windows siding cabinets etc etc.. I mean I see it since i am paying for it to the tune of 250k to 300k a month. but i hear ya. you do get what you pay for though and its not a race.. real estate is a long game and to me far more important to buy quality assets then taking 2 steps forward and 1 backward.. you may want to try both and see how they play out.. remote rehab simply is the most risky thing you can do in RE full stop. U have to shop for the deal and compete or deal with wholesalers thats no fun.. you have to make quick discussions etc etc.. with a nice renovated prop you get to buy it have your home inspection and understand what your buying... Just sayin.

@Jay Hinrichs - mind sharing the turnkey operators you might recommend?

I don't think you can go wrong with any of these 3:

REI Nation
JWB
Spartan Invest

They have all stood the test of time and I if i ever win the powerball, I'll "throw" money and own 10 properties with each of them lol 💰

I'd recommend myself but my A$$ is still sore from working with investors so we aren't taking on any new business and are just working with our existing investor base

0 Votes

Cleveland, Ohio

Quote from @Stephen Williams:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Stephen Williams:

So I just talked with Kenny. After checking with the power company on the status of the power they said crews have been out and they showed power being used at the residence. After that I was informed by Kenny that the home is complete and ready for move in. He apologized for the lack of communication. Most of the hold up was due to the power company. He said there is no excuse for the lack of communication. I can easily see they are overwhelmed with the heavy demand.

He said other delays will be the housing office as the prospective tenant is a section 8 tenant. So he asked for my permission to allow the tenant to sign a lease and move in effective Jul 15th and they will cover the rent owed to me until the housing inspection is done and rent is coming from them. He also offered concessions due to the severe delays far beyond the contract that was signed. I feel this is adequate and hope there are not any hiccups past this. So I am canceling my plans to go to Memphis for now as I am busy with work.

I still need time to decide whether I want to keep going through him or establish relationships with others in the area. I’ve spoken to some promising people up there due to everyone’s help here. Only thing missing now is a wholesaler to find a property for me.

Hi Stephen,

Sorry for your troubles but it seems like the provider came through in the end which is nice to see.

And promising to cover rent for the delays caused shows character also.

Being a turnkey provider myself since 2014, I can attest to that unfortunately many things sometimes aren't in our control.

Especially when it comes to the citiy, contractors and pulling permits, etc...

Our traditional promise is that the property will take 90 days to rehab and tenant.

Have we gone over 90 days? Yes, many times but then we cover rent until renovated and tenanted.

Have we had an investor loose money on a deal? We sure have and are now doing a deal for this investor where they keep 100% of the profits.

Folks that do their best, will make mistakes (Honest mistakes for those with integrity).

We have been thrown under the bus quite a few times on this forum like many others but I sleep peacefully because I know we don't steal, cheat or lie and always do our best for everyone.

Many times things work out well and other times they don't.

Such is real estate and such is life.

Onwards and wishing you all the best

Yes I have to reiterate that I don’t think they were doing anything bad. I was asking for help and explaining the situation while also warning people of potential issues. My biggest issue was the lack of communication which we discussed. I was fully prepared to go to Memphis and take over the project because I was left in the dark. Communication is key.

Agreed. Communication is always key.

Even if things aren't going as planned.

Granted, I have also witnessed many unrealistic expectations and got blasted for "communicating" every nut and bolt to an investor.

So it can be a fine line

1 Vote

Memphis, Tennessee

Quote from @Stephen Williams:

Hi Stephen,

Sorry for your troubles but it seems like the provider came through in the end which is nice to see.

And promising to cover rent for the delays caused shows character also.

Being a turnkey provider myself since 2014, I can attest to that unfortunately many things sometimes aren't in our control.

Especially when it comes to the citiy, contractors and pulling permits, etc...

Our traditional promise is that the property will take 90 days to rehab and tenant.

Have we gone over 90 days? Yes, many times but then we cover rent until renovated and tenanted.

Have we had an investor loose money on a deal? We sure have and are now doing a deal for this investor where they keep 100% of the profits.

Folks that do their best, will make mistakes (Honest mistakes for those that work with integrity).

We have been thrown under the bus quite a few times on this forum like many others but I sleep peacefully because I know we don't steal, cheat or lie and always do our best for everyone.

Many times things work out well and other times they don't.

Such is real estate and such is life.

I don't think one can be blamed for doing their best.

Upwards and onwards and wishing you all the best

1 Vote

Memphis, Tennessee

New Member Introductions

Post: New Member Introduction - Excited to Learn and Connect!

Engelo Rumora

Posted July 15, 2024 17:13

Investor
Toledo, OH
Posts 4,536
Votes 2,088

Quote from @Shrijan Neupane:

Hello BiggerPockets Community!

I'm thrilled to be part of this elite group of real estate enthusiasts. My name is Shrijan Neupane, and I am an employed nine-by-fiver determined to get into real estate investment. Even though I have no experience other than renting out and managing my first primary home, my interest in real estate pushes me to educate myself upon this topic.

With a very high barrier to entry where I live in Northern Virginia, especially for first-time investors just starting out with small budgets, that is why I have been focusing on out-of-state investing in real estate and also have been reading a lot about the BRRRR strategy. I am actively researching markets like Cleveland and Columbus, but I remain very open to other opportunities.

My goals are to successfully fund and execute a BRRRR project, build a team of veteran investors and mentors, and continue learning to attain financial freedom through real estate.

Excited to connect with seasoned investors and mentors. Feel free to reach out if you have thoughts, guidance, or opportunities for BRRRR projects or out-of-state investing. Let's stay connected and grow in this real estate investment journey together!

Thank you, and I am excited to be part of this wonderful community!

Hi Shrijan,

Welcome to the forum.

Personally, I'm not a fan of out of state BRRRR.

On paper it all sounds good and great but I've been in the game long enough to have witnessed otherwise.

I would always advise doing BRRRR in your own market if possible.

There are too many links to a chain with this approach and if one link is faulty, you chain becomes useless.

Otherwise, (Yes, I'm bias lol) an alternate solution is buying turnkey.

Wishing you much success

0 Votes

Quote from @Aqsa Mughees:

Hi, I posted before too, please no copy pasted excerpts from articles. I want to invest in real estate. I have some money but don’t want to engage in interest. That’s a biggie for me.

1. Can you guide me on the hot markets for real estate? Land, brrrr, house flipping? Any other idea?
2. My budget is under 60k

3. Based on my budget can someone guide me on a few options? I am happy to talk more.

Thanks!

Hi Aqsa,

I'm bias but then again, I've owned real estate all over and haven't found a better market for sub $100,000 than Toledo.

Low entry price point

High cashflow

Employed tenants that pay rent online

Decent areas with well kept homes

Not much appreciation so IMO it's a strict cashflow play.

If you find and buy off-market you can snag some great deals for sub $60,000 purchase and rehab.

Quality of workmanship is the downside and so is motivation of other folks needed to make investing from out of state work.

So beware.

These are the downsides bit like with any market, you will always have pro's and con's.

All the best 👍

1 Vote

All Forum Posts by: Engelo Rumora

Engelo Rumora has started 180 posts and replied 4386 times.

Post: Out of State / Out of Country Real Estate Investing?

Post: Should I sell cash flowing property to buy 2 more with the cash?

Post: Engelo Rumora on Needy Landlords

Post: Norada Capital Management Promissory note investment

Post: Engelo Rumora on Needy Landlords

Post: Experience of OOS investing in Cleveland after 1.5 years.

Post: Need help to finish a BRRR after contractor stoped answering calls.

Post: Need help to finish a BRRR after contractor stoped answering calls.

Post: New Member Introduction - Excited to Learn and Connect!

Post: Need guidance and options

Engelo Rumora has started 180 posts and replied 4386 times.

Rounded Star Post: Out of State / Out of Country Real Estate Investing?

Rounded Star Post: Should I sell cash flowing property to buy 2 more with the cash?

Rounded Star Post: Engelo Rumora on Needy Landlords

Rounded Star Post: Norada Capital Management Promissory note investment

Rounded Star Post: Engelo Rumora on Needy Landlords

Rounded Star Post: Experience of OOS investing in Cleveland after 1.5 years.

Rounded Star Post: Need help to finish a BRRR after contractor stoped answering calls.

Rounded Star Post: Need help to finish a BRRR after contractor stoped answering calls.

Rounded Star Post: New Member Introduction - Excited to Learn and Connect!

Rounded Star Post: Need guidance and options

Post: Out of State / Out of Country Real Estate Investing?

Post: Should I sell cash flowing property to buy 2 more with the cash?

Post: Engelo Rumora on Needy Landlords

Post: Norada Capital Management Promissory note investment

Post: Engelo Rumora on Needy Landlords

Post: Experience of OOS investing in Cleveland after 1.5 years.

Post: Need help to finish a BRRR after contractor stoped answering calls.

Post: Need help to finish a BRRR after contractor stoped answering calls.

Post: New Member Introduction - Excited to Learn and Connect!

Post: Need guidance and options