All Forum Posts by: George Blower

Keep in mind that in order to take a distribution under the CARES Act you must have been impacted by the virus in one of the enumerated ways.

If so, you can take a penalty-free distribution (as well as waive the 20% withholding requirement) from your 401k (assuming that the employer allows it) anytime between 1/1/2020 and 12/31/2020. You may avoid the taxes if you deposit the funds in an eligible retirement plan (which includes anIRA) within "3 years and a day" of the date of the COVID-19 distribution (note: compare to a 60-day rollover). Please note that the account into which the funds are deposited must be the same type of account from which the funds were first withdrawn (e.g. withdrawal of pre-tax funds from a 401k could be deposited in a pre-tax IRA but not a Roth IRA - "like to like").

@Rachan M.

Here are some issues to consider in choosing an Self-directed IRA provider:

1. In order to have checkbook control, the IRA account will need to be at a trust company that will allow the IRA to invest in an LLC (where you will be the manager and your IRA will be member - an as manager you will have checkbook access to the LLC bank account). Therefore, you will want to confirm that the trust company allows for investing in an LLC and the associated fees and minimum balance that applies to the IRA account.

2. Confirm that the IRA LLC provider will prepare all of the documents needed to not only form the LLC (articles of organization, SS-4 to obtain an EIN) but also the documents needed by the trust company to process the investment of IRA funds in the LLC.

3. Confirm that the provider has experience with the particular investments in which you intend to invest your retirement funds as you very likely will have questions in terms of the mechanics (e.g. how do you invest in real estate, etc.).

4. Confirm that the provider has a pristine reputation (e.g. Better Business Bureau reviews, etc.).

5. In addition, if you are self-employed with no full-time employees you may wish to consider opening a Solo 401k instead of a self-directed IRA as it has several advantages over an IRA LLC such as much higher contribution limits, direct checkbook control (i.e. no need to have the account at a specialty trust company), ability to take a 401k loan, exclusion from unrelated debt finance income tax with respect to investment in real estate acquired with non-recourse financing, etc.

In addition, please note if you purchase debt-financed real estate with your IRA, unrelated debt finance income tax should apply to the income attributable to debt-financed real estate held by your IRA. Of course, you will want to review your specific situation with your tax advisor.

 If the money is in your current employer plan and you saved the money from working for your current employer, you generally can't take the funds out of your 401k until you quit your job.

@Brian Henderson

Please see the following regarding Considerations re Investing in Real Estate & Considerations re Choosing a Solo 401k provider:

General Considerations Re Investing Retirement Funds in Real Estate:

1. If you purchase via an IRA (as opposed to a 401k), you will need to open an IRA account at a specialty trust company that allows for investments in real estate. Unless you invest via an LLC owned by the IRA, you will not have checkbook control over the funds which means you need to run transactions (e.g. income, expenses, etc.) through the trust company who will need time to process the transactions and generally charge fees for each transaction. On the other hand, keep in mind that there are costs associated with maintaining an LLC (such as the $800 annual franchise tax in California).

2. If you are self-employed with no employees, you can set up a Solo 401k through a 401k provider which allows for investing in real estate. In that case, you can simply have the account at a bank or brokerage where you will have direct checkbook control.

3. In either case, all of the income and expenses will need to flow in and out of the retirement account.

4. In either case and if you will use debt to acquire the real estate, it must be non-recourse financing. See more at the following link: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/9552/70408-ira... If debt-financed real estate is acquired via an IRA, any income attributable to such investment will generally be subject to unrelated debt finance income tax.

5. In either case, you can't live on the property or otherwise use it for personal use.

6. In either case, you can't work on the property as it must be a passive investment (e.g. you must hire someone to fix the toilet and can't pay the expense with non-retirement funds).

7. In either case, you must purchase/sell real estate from/to an unrelated person and the real estate can't be titled in your name personally (e.g. in the case of the 401k, it would be titled in the name of the 401k and you would sign as trustee of the 401k).

8. In either case, you should verify that you are eligible to transfer the funds from your existing retirement account (e.g. if the funds are in your current employer 401k, you will likely not be able to transfer until you quit your job).

Considerations in Setting up a Solo 401k to invest in real estate:

1. First, you must be eligible to set up a Solo 401k. In order to be eligible, you must be self-employed (e.g. providing goods and/or services through your personal effort), reporting self-employment activity on your taxes (e.g. Schedule C if you a sole proprietor) & you do not have any w-2 employees working for your self-employed business or otherwise.

2. If you are self-employed with no employees, you can set up a Solo 401k through a 401k provider which allows for investing in real estate. In that case, you can simply have the account at a bank or brokerage where you will have direct checkbook control.

3. All of the income and expenses will need to flow in and out of the retirement account.

4. If you will you debt to acquire the real estate, it must be non-recourse financing. See more at the following link: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/9552/70408-ira...

5. You can't live on the property or otherwise use it for personal use.

6. You can't work on the property as it must be a passive investment (e.g. you must hire someone to fix the toilet and can't pay the expense with non-retirement funds).

7. You must purchase/sell real estate from/to an unrelated person and the real estate can't be titled in your name personally (e.g. in the case of the 401k, it would be titled in the name of the 401k and you would sign as trustee of the 401k).

8. You should verify that you are eligible to transfer the funds from your existing retirement account (e.g. if the funds are in your current employer 401k, you will likely not be able to transfer until you quit your job).

Considerations in Choosing a Solo 401k Provider:

1. Confirm that the provider has a pristine reputation (e.g. Better Business Bureau reviews, etc.).

2. You may wish to confirm that the new 401k provider has experience with the particular investments in which you intend to invest your retirement funds as you very likely will have questions in terms of the mechanics (e.g. how do you invest in real estate, etc.).

3. You may wish to confirm that the new 401k provider will handle the ongoing compliance support such as any required 5500 filing (e.g. 5500-ez for a one-participant plan with assets in excess of $250,000), any required tax reporting (e.g. 1099-r in the event of a distribution or in-plan Roth conversion), mandatory plan updates and amendments, etc.

4. If you might take a 401k loan, you may wish to confirm that the new 401k provider will prepare the required 401k participant loan documents.

Here are some issues to consider in choosing an Self-directed IRA provider:

1. In order to have checkbook control, the IRA account will need to be at a trust company that will allow the IRA to invest in an LLC (where you will be the manager and your IRA will be member - an as manager you will have checkbook access to the LLC bank account). Therefore, you will want to confirm that the trust company allows for investing in an LLC and the associated fees and minimum balance that applies to the IRA account.

2. Confirm that the IRA LLC provider will prepare all of the documents needed to not only form the LLC (articles of organization, SS-4 to obtain an EIN) but also the documents needed by the trust company to process the investment of IRA funds in the LLC.

3. Confirm that the provider has experience with the particular investments in which you intend to invest your retirement funds as you very likely will have questions in terms of the mechanics (e.g. how do you invest in real estate, etc.).

4. Confirm that the provider has a pristine reputation (e.g. Better Business Bureau reviews, etc.).

5. In addition, if you are self-employed with no full-time employees you may wish to consider opening a Solo 401k instead of a self-directed IRA as it has several advantages over an IRA LLC such as much higher contribution limits, direct checkbook control (i.e. no need to have the account at a specialty trust company), ability to take a 401k loan, exclusion from unrelated debt finance income tax with respect to investment in real estate acquired with non-recourse financing, etc.

In addition, please note if you purchase debt-financed real estate with your IRA, unrelated debt finance income tax should apply to the income attributable to debt-financed real estate held by your IRA. Of course, you will want to review your specific situation with your tax advisor.

@Tamar Hermes

Please see the following regarding Considerations re Investing in Real Estate & Considerations re Choosing a Solo 401k provider:

General Considerations Re Investing Retirement Funds in Real Estate:

1. If you purchase via an IRA (as opposed to a 401k), you will need to open an IRA account at a specialty trust company that allows for investments in real estate. Unless you invest via an LLC owned by the IRA, you will not have checkbook control over the funds which means you need to run transactions (e.g. income, expenses, etc.) through the trust company who will need time to process the transactions and generally charge fees for each transaction. On the other hand, keep in mind that there are costs associated with maintaining an LLC (such as the $800 annual franchise tax in California).

2. If you are self-employed with no employees, you can set up a Solo 401k through a 401k provider which allows for investing in real estate. In that case, you can simply have the account at a bank or brokerage where you will have direct checkbook control.

3. In either case, all of the income and expenses will need to flow in and out of the retirement account.

4. In either case and if you will use debt to acquire the real estate, it must be non-recourse financing. See more at the following link: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/9552/70408-ira... If debt-financed real estate is acquired via an IRA, any income attributable to such investment will generally be subject to unrelated debt finance income tax.

5. In either case, you can't live on the property or otherwise use it for personal use.

6. In either case, you can't work on the property as it must be a passive investment (e.g. you must hire someone to fix the toilet and can't pay the expense with non-retirement funds).

7. In either case, you must purchase/sell real estate from/to an unrelated person and the real estate can't be titled in your name personally (e.g. in the case of the 401k, it would be titled in the name of the 401k and you would sign as trustee of the 401k).

8. In either case, you should verify that you are eligible to transfer the funds from your existing retirement account (e.g. if the funds are in your current employer 401k, you will likely not be able to transfer until you quit your job).

Considerations in Setting up a Solo 401k to invest in real estate:

1. First, you must be eligible to set up a Solo 401k. In order to be eligible, you must be self-employed (e.g. providing goods and/or services through your personal effort), reporting self-employment activity on your taxes (e.g. Schedule C if you a sole proprietor) & you do not have any w-2 employees working for your self-employed business or otherwise.

2. If you are self-employed with no employees, you can set up a Solo 401k through a 401k provider which allows for investing in real estate. In that case, you can simply have the account at a bank or brokerage where you will have direct checkbook control.

3. All of the income and expenses will need to flow in and out of the retirement account.

4. If you will you debt to acquire the real estate, it must be non-recourse financing. See more at the following link: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/9552/70408-ira...

5. You can't live on the property or otherwise use it for personal use.

6. You can't work on the property as it must be a passive investment (e.g. you must hire someone to fix the toilet and can't pay the expense with non-retirement funds).

7. You must purchase/sell real estate from/to an unrelated person and the real estate can't be titled in your name personally (e.g. in the case of the 401k, it would be titled in the name of the 401k and you would sign as trustee of the 401k).

8. You should verify that you are eligible to transfer the funds from your existing retirement account (e.g. if the funds are in your current employer 401k, you will likely not be able to transfer until you quit your job).

Considerations in Choosing a Solo 401k Provider:

1. Confirm that the provider has a pristine reputation (e.g. Better Business Bureau reviews, etc.).

2. You may wish to confirm that the new 401k provider has experience with the particular investments in which you intend to invest your retirement funds as you very likely will have questions in terms of the mechanics (e.g. how do you invest in real estate, etc.).

3. You may wish to confirm that the new 401k provider will handle the ongoing compliance support such as any required 5500 filing (e.g. 5500-ez for a one-participant plan with assets in excess of $250,000), any required tax reporting (e.g. 1099-r in the event of a distribution or in-plan Roth conversion), mandatory plan updates and amendments, etc.

4. If you might take a 401k loan, you may wish to confirm that the new 401k provider will prepare the required 401k participant loan documents.

Here are some issues to consider in choosing an Self-directed IRA provider:

1. In order to have checkbook control, the IRA account will need to be at a trust company that will allow the IRA to invest in an LLC (where you will be the manager and your IRA will be member - an as manager you will have checkbook access to the LLC bank account). Therefore, you will want to confirm that the trust company allows for investing in an LLC and the associated fees and minimum balance that applies to the IRA account.

2. Confirm that the IRA LLC provider will prepare all of the documents needed to not only form the LLC (articles of organization, SS-4 to obtain an EIN) but also the documents needed by the trust company to process the investment of IRA funds in the LLC.

3. Confirm that the provider has experience with the particular investments in which you intend to invest your retirement funds as you very likely will have questions in terms of the mechanics (e.g. how do you invest in real estate, etc.).

4. Confirm that the provider has a pristine reputation (e.g. Better Business Bureau reviews, etc.).

5. In addition, if you are self-employed with no full-time employees you may wish to consider opening a Solo 401k instead of a self-directed IRA as it has several advantages over an IRA LLC such as much higher contribution limits, direct checkbook control (i.e. no need to have the account at a specialty trust company), ability to take a 401k loan, exclusion from unrelated debt finance income tax with respect to investment in real estate acquired with non-recourse financing, etc.

In addition, please note if you purchase debt-financed real estate with your IRA, unrelated debt finance income tax should apply to the income attributable to debt-financed real estate held by your IRA. Of course, you will want to review your specific situation with your tax advisor.

Yes You should work with your tax advisor to ensure that reported correctly on your taxes (i.e. both the spreading of the income over 3 years as well as the portion paid back each year) 

@Kyle Cooper

Here are some issues to consider in choosing an Self-directed IRA provider:

1. In order to have checkbook control, the IRA account will need to be at a trust company that will allow the IRA to invest in an LLC (where you will be the manager and your IRA will be member - an as manager you will have checkbook access to the LLC bank account). Therefore, you will want to confirm that the trust company allows for investing in an LLC and the associated fees and minimum balance that applies to the IRA account.

2. Confirm that the IRA LLC provider will prepare all of the documents needed to not only form the LLC (articles of organization, SS-4 to obtain an EIN) but also the documents needed by the trust company to process the investment of IRA funds in the LLC.

3. Confirm that the provider has experience with the particular investments in which you intend to invest your retirement funds as you very likely will have questions in terms of the mechanics (e.g. how do you invest in real estate, etc.).

4. Confirm that the provider has a pristine reputation (e.g. Better Business Bureau reviews, etc.).

5. In addition, if you are self-employed with no full-time employees you may wish to consider opening a Solo 401k instead of a self-directed IRA as it has several advantages over an IRA LLC such as much higher contribution limits, direct checkbook control (i.e. no need to have the account at a specialty trust company), ability to take a 401k loan, exclusion from unrelated debt finance income tax with respect to investment in real estate acquired with non-recourse financing, etc.

In addition, please note if you purchase debt-financed real estate with your IRA, unrelated debt finance income tax should apply to the income attributable to debt-financed real estate held by your IRA. Of course, you will want to review your specific situation with your tax advisor.

@Will Gile

Keep in mind that in order to take a distribution under the CARES Act you must have been impacted by the virus in one of the enumerated ways.

If so, you can take a penalty-free distribution (as well as waive the 20% withholding requirement) from your 401k (assuming that the employer allows it) anytime between 1/1/2020 and 12/31/2020. You may avoid the taxes if you deposit the funds in an eligible retirement plan (which includes anIRA) within "3 years and a day" of the date of the COVID-19 distribution (note: compare to a 60-day rollover). Please note that the account into which the funds are deposited must be the same type of account from which the funds were first withdrawn (e.g. withdrawal of pre-tax funds from a 401k could be deposited in a pre-tax IRA but not a Roth IRA - "like to like").

@James R aduna

Keep in mind that in order to take a distribution under the CARES Act you must have been impacted by the virus in one of the enumerated ways.

If so, you can take a penalty-free distribution (as well as waive the 20% withholding requirement) from your 401k (assuming that the employer allows it) anytime between 1/1/2020 and 12/31/2020. You may avoid the taxes if you deposit the funds in an eligible retirement plan (which includes anIRA) within "3 years and a day" of the date of the COVID-19 distribution (note: compare to a 60-day rollover). Please note that the account into which the funds are deposited must be the same type of account from which the funds were first withdrawn (e.g. withdrawal of pre-tax funds from a 401k could be deposited in a pre-tax IRA but not a Roth IRA - "like to like").

@Mary Jay

1) When you take a distribution from your 401k under the CARES Act the funds will be sent to your account either electronically or by check payable to you personally (for deposit in your account).

2) In your example: if you pay back 80K, you would only owes taxes on the 20k; keep in mind that the taxes are spread out over 3 years so if you pay back a portion of the distribution in year 3 you would have already paid taxes in years 1 and 2 and so would work with your tax advisor to file amendments for the prior year tax returns to recoup the taxes paid in prior years.