All Forum Posts by: Jerry W.

Yo ualso need a registered agent that resides in WY.  Many attorneys do that, but there are some companies that provide that service too.

@Brian Christensen, I have to agree with @Matthew Paul.  If the guy gave you permission to dig up his yard to fix your sewer line on his property that has no legal right to be there I wouldn't push it by asking for his insurance information.  I can assure you his insurance company will say no to any claim of damage to a trespassing pipe.  You might try to buy an easement from him.  It is an item that will effect the value of the home when you sell.

Thanks Nick.  The truck I am looking at is a one ton, it doesn't ride great, but I need a big truck to haul my dump trailer I use for tearing off roofs and cleaning up properties.  I know I need to draw a salary, but I try to keep my profit or loss pretty close to zero if I can.  This year I won't be able to do that unless I do a big purchase and all of it won't be deductible in one year.  I have been pretty aggressive this year on fixing up some properties that needed small repairs or appliances to help offset the large profit from the quick profit I made.

@Nicholas Aiola, I got lucky and had a house flip over very quickly this year for about a $30K profit in only a few months.  I realize I will take a short term capital gains hit.  The entity is a sub S corporation.  I am considering buying a truck for about $40K.  Will that in anyway defray the hit of Short term capital gains?  Or only regular gains?  Next would it be better to take some wages to try to reduce taxes?  I don't really want to pull money out of the Corp but would like to avoid the big tax hit if possible.

@Gio Gonzalez, if you just need the LLC and not anything custom or advice on how to operate them you can create your own on the Secretary of State website for $100.

@Matt Schelberg it is worth talking to an attorney who does mortgage work.  My state may have different laws.  In WY if you send notice to a mortgage holder to release a lien and they should have but don't they are charged a penalty for every day of non compliance.  I don't know if your state has that.  Next normally in probate i my state there is hearing for accepting and rejecting claims that must be done to get a claim approved.  there must be a certified claim presented.  you technically only pay the purchase price.  How the sale proceeds are paid  is up to the closing agent.  Finally you could sue the Mortgage holder for defamation of title or quiet title, but that requires an in depth analysis not appropriate for this conversation.  Talk to a local attorney for advice.

@Brian Bradley this paragraph is one I don't get.

Another misconception is not understanding how Trusts work. Trust work by separating the grantor / settlor (you) from ownership of the assets. It is easy to explain a land trust and how it is used. A real estate land trust is just one of the many types of trusts. A Trust, be it your estate trust or land trust, is any agreement where one party holds property for another party's benefit. The owner of the property never gives up control of the assets, but the trustee becomes the owner of the property. The function of the land trust is to shield the asset owners by separating the grantor from ownership. The anonymous land trust owns the Series LLC as well as serve as the Title Holding Trusts for your real estate assets. This is the power of trusts and why trust are so strong and vastly used. When assets are placed into a trust, they are separate from the settlor, therefore if the settlor is sued, only the individual's personal assets can be pursued. Even the trust assets that are being distributed to the beneficiary are off limits through protective provisions (legal language) in the trust deed.

How do you make a trust asset being distributed to the beneficiary off limits through protective provisions?  without it being a spendthrift provision.  My understanding of trusts is that you can add the part about no beneficiary may anticipate or pledge any assets and not creditor may attach the assets for the benefit of the beneficiary, etc.  

My understanding of that a spendthrift provision is broken if you give the beneficiary of the trust any control over the assets.  How can the beneficiary control it and not have it liable for the beneficiaries debts?  perhaps you could paste a copy of that language.  that is one of the parts I have a problem with.  Who would be the Trustee of the Trust?

@Brian Bradley. let me give you an example of my idea of an asset protection plan. First form an LLC to buy property. The owner must personally guarantee the mortgage in order to get the mortgage. Only the husband is in the LLC, not the spouse. Since there is not a lot of money the managing member is hands on. it cannot be helped. You can opt to form a second holding or management company who by contract does the managing of the rentals. there is of course insurance. Now the dangerous part of this plan is the hands on participation of the real owner, say Tom Smith. If he runs the business right his LLC will fend off personal liability to Tom, but nothing can protect the asset itself. So say we have a claim or suit filed against the LLC and they find a way to add Tom to the suit. If they win, they can attach the property if they filed against the LLC. If they only filed against the holding company or management company only those assets are at risk. Now the big risk is if they sue Tom personally. What happens to his house, car, bank account, etc.?

now if the claim was for Tom driving drunk and hurting someone he is personally liable. If the claim was for say tripping on a damaged sidewalk, Tom is probably not personally liable, but maybe you can get the management company and maybe the LLC itself. If the claim was code defective conditions rendering them unsafe you might get all 3 of the entities. I would try to keep various properties separated by series LLcs or separate LLcs, so liability does not splash over onto different properties. if you win against Tom You can only get charging orders on ownership of the LLCs but you have his personal assets.

So you put all property not in the LLcs into joint tenant by the entireties ownership, like houses, cars, office buildings, etc. Since the spouse is not part of the LLC or holding company you cannot get a successful lawsuit against her. Since the house and other valuable are owned as Tenants by the Entireties you cannot attach the house or other property without the wife also owing the debt. The weakness is that the wages of Tom could be garnished if there is a judgement against him. However the land in other LLCs are spared anything but a charging order, and the house and other property in Tenants by the Entireties is spared. you could add another member to the LLC like a friend, for a 1% share to make it a multimember LLC instead of a single member LLC.

How does that sound?

If Tom is buying the properties and getting loans, and doing the maintenance and renting them, I see no way to insulate him from personal liability for many kinds of claims.  I can see protecting his other assets.

What would you do differently to protect Tom and please explain how it would work if you can.

@Brian Bradley, what @Rodney Blackwell is referring to , I think is unique to LLCs in some states and is like Limited corporations.  In Wyoming LLcs are not required to keep minutes and have meetings.  I have no idea if things are that way in other states.  Fail to do that in a corporation will get you into trouble unless it is a Limited Corporation.  things have changed so much with LLCs from when they first started.

@Brian Bradley, I actually have not intentionally insulted you in any way.  It is hard to turn off what we do during the day, but I intended no insult as of yet.  I very much like that you are talking about some of the nuts and bolts finally.  You have very much touted the anonymity factor of these things,  that is the part that concerns me.  I agree whole heartedly that LLCs and series LLCs are important liability tools.  I do not deal with land trusts for anonymity and the claims that they will stop lawsuits concerns me greatly.  Especially claims that Plaintiff's attorneys will get frustrated and go away.  I would actually be afraid to make that claim for ethical reasons.  It seems that saying that it can deter some of the smaller nuisance lawsuits would be more appropriate.  You have not addressed my scenario in the least.  Part of what I do on these forums is to try to keep people who are virtually advertising their services in every post from making outrageous claims that lack merit or seem to be misleading.  you are clearly advertising your wares on virtually every post I have seen.  On my first vote for one of your posts you sent me a solicitation email which I understand to be a violation of the rules.  I don't really care about that.  I just want to make sure that your advertising and claims are factually supported and I have concerns yours promise a bit more than they deliver.  I obviously got concerned when you implied you had to be right because your firm or one you work with is over 100 years old and hundreds of old attorneys invest time in this.  You should be able to articulate your position based upon it's merit.  Throwing the flag over top of you saying since I am in this firm I cannot be wrong doesn't cut it.

You have failed in any way to address the example I set out.  Why is that?  the reason I mention the secret sauce is that I have seen lots of attorneys just like you make these same claims many times.  they never seem to be willing to actually talk about how they work.  To be honest you seem to be the most open so far, and I like that.  I really am curious how these work based upon the claims I hear.

You very clearly made it known I was not capable of understanding because I was not an attorney and did not know how these things work.  I hope I have showed you otherwise.  I know what a lot of attorney's charge, but not all.  I have seen asset protection plans for under $500 and for over $50K.  I can assure you that your lawyers don't work for the $44 fee you mentioned in part of the costs.  If your firm is as prestigious as you claim no attorney there is working for under $100 per hour and I doubt many are less than $200 per hour.

this is an interesting forum and a great one to find clients for your business.  you need to be open about how your plan works if you don't want confronted about it.  You are here looking to get clients.  that is obvious, and I don't care particularly if you are transparent about what your service can and cannot do.  I am willing to debate the merits.  If your solicitation gets out of hand I will hide or block your posts, but I see no reason to do that at this time.  I understand that you are employed in a firm that makes money from doing things like this and you want to be valuable to them.  However saying your firm affiliates with the largest firms in the country to useless fluff.  discuss the merits if you want credibility.  I have never by the way blocked any post for attacking me.  that is not the reason I block posts.  I just want to make sure that people are fairly informed about the service they are being pitched.  I have seen many , many such posts here on BP.  just be clear about what they can and cannot do.

I truly would like the answers to some of my questions.  if you chose not to I obviously cannot compel you to.