All Forum Posts by: Jennifer Donley

@Xochitl Cadena, I've got a portfolio of Section 8 properties in St. Louis.  Here are my thoughts based on  my experiences.

1. I make clear in my lease the things you've listed in terms of maintenance.  Tenants change lights bulkbs, fix any damage they cause, pay for any repairs they make happen, etc.

2. As for the newest tenant applicant, what they're telling you could be true.  Here, a person who has Section 8 will have their voucher, signed and dated by them and their case worker, that tells you they're accepted for the program.  I always collect this as part of the screening process.

But, we don't sign the lease with the tenant until move in day.  Instead, once they're approve, we complete the landlord packet (paperwork from the caseworker you reference), send it in, wait for inspections and rent approval, receive the move in authorization and THEN and only then, does the tenatn sign the lease.  The reason is that if you don't get through the Section 8 process, then the tenant should not sign the lease because they can't perform because they can't pay the rent.  I suspect this is the process there as well.

Additionally I collect half of the deposit at approval/landlord paper work completion and the other half at move in.  Once the first 50% is paid, I take the property off the market.  

If the tenant cancels due to something within their control, I keep the $500.  If they can't move in due ot something outside their control, I refund it.  I put this verbiage on the lease and the security deposit receipt and have them sign off on it.

I have a bunch of responses on my BP page to Section 8 Forum questions that I think will help you, in case you want to check them out.

And P.S. I love Section 8.  The key is setting very clear standards in your lease, performing yourself, enforcing the lease and METICULOUS tenant screening.  Do that and it's a great program.

@Jorge Vazquez, Section 8 all the way in B and C areas.  Especially now.

Our Section 8 inspections aren't any more difficult than our municipality occupancy inspections. Different, yes but not harder.

The move in can be lengthy but that guaranteed rent is worth an extra couple weeks of waiting, I think.

Agree with @Steve C. that rents aren't always higher.

The red tape is hardest when you're new to it.  Once you know it, you can count onthe process being the same every time, which for a checklisty, process person, is awesome.

@Jared Pinkus, Section 8 is all I do and I've inherited a lot of tenants with minimal documentation.

Here's what I do in your situation:

1. You should get what's called the "Good standing certification" pretty soon from the Housing Authority (HA).  On this doc, you certify that the tenant is in good standing or not.  They shouldn't be able to get anew voucher to move to a new place without being good standing with you, as long as you're reasonable and have good documentation.

2.  As soon as that doc lands in your mail or inbox, schedule a pre-move out walk through with the tenant.

3.  Take a move out checklist to the appointment as well as a cleaning checklist. Notate with the tenant what items need to be fixed prior to move out in order for them to get their full deposit back (especially on inherited tenants, I'm really reasonable here).  Give them the cleaning checklist.  Tell them that unit must be cleaned per checklist and ALL belongings removed in order for them to get full SD back.  Emphasize that your goal is to give them every penny of that deposit back and these docs will help them.

Also emphasize in writing that doing all of these things will not guarantee that they will get their full deposit back because things can happen in between the meet and move out, and there are things you may not see or notice during the pre move out. But this is a good faith effort to help them get as much back as possible.  

NOTE: If they do all we asked and nothing is changed at final walk through/nothing major identified, I give back all the deposit. 

4.  Unless they owe money OR there is a significant, expensive repair needed identified during the pre move out walk through, sign off on good standing.  If they owe money or a large repair needed, indicate that tenant is NOT in good standing due to $ or identified issues.  Document your tail off if either of these 2 exist.

5. In general, if it's an inherited tenant that I want to get rid of so I can rehab the unit and I don't have good docs from their previous landlord, I'm very reasonable because I figure if I can't defend it in court, I'm not going to go to the wall on it here.

6. Conduct final walk through day of move out or day after.

Let me know if I can help further.

@Account ClosedYES GIRL!  So happy to see this.

@Misael Carlos Vera, you're going to have to check with a landlord in the area who is successfully doing Section 8 (don't listen to the ones that hate it - they won't be helpful here).

Here in St. Louis, I charge ALL utilities back to the tenant or they pay for themselves, in their name.  The rents are I get are in line or sometimes slightly above what you would get with market rents here.  The PHA will say they pay a "reasonable" rent based on similar properties with similar amenities and generally that's true.  But eery landlord does it slightly differently - some pay no utilities. some mow the lawn, some don't, some pay water, some don't, etc, so I think it's very difficult to get an exact apples to apples comparison. So here, it appears that rents are calculated the same, with or without utilities included.  

Finally, even if I had to take a slight hit on rent due to not including utilities, I would because if I'm paying utilities, they're not motivated to conserve.

I'm in B and C neighborhoods and only do Section 8.  I screen meticulously and have great tenants.  My rents are at or slightly above market rents.  I require my tenants to have at least $1000 in income as I find it makes them more stable - i.e. better able to keep the utilities on, pay landlord billed utilities and less drama.  Plus, if their income changes, they are easier to work with in terms of contacting the caseworker. Being in the workforce in some capacity appears to me to generate more savvy tenants in terms of technology, fixing their problems, etc.

So I'm in the camp of yes, would prefer to get 70 to 90% than 0. If/when rents start to go down, we'll quite requesting rent increases until that changes again.

If I had properties in A areas, I would feel differently due to FMRs being under market of course.  But A areas are not the ones I'm hearing about getting hit hard with non-payment.

@Jordan Moorhead congratulations!  

Thought I'd chime in on a couple things - rent increases usually aren't difficult with Section 8 but they may be time sensitive.  You may have to wait until close to the renewal (like we do here) or you may not, depending on how the locla PHA works.

Also, hopefully your PM is awesome.  I have found here that most PMs aren't very good at Section 8 but the program is great when executed on well.  I think it's difficult for PMs who don't do a ton of it and so don't have the processes built for it.

Congrats again and good luck!

@Brendon Kerrigan I'm a Section 8 landlord in St. Louis.  I follow much of the advice you've been given - I match the neighborhood.  I just put granite in a Section rental but it went with the rest of the neighborhood and I went with the thinner granite.

I've done this in a couple other properties and haven't had any issues with the tenants tearing it up.  I also find it attracts better quality tenants (you'll attract not great tenants too so just be sure you screen thoroughly).

@Andrew Peters you bet- reach out when you’re ready!

@Andrew Peters, Section 8 rental properties is all I do!  Done right, I think it's one of the most stable & profitable niches out there. However, done wrong, it's one of the most difficult.

A quick primer & a few of my opinions:

-learn as much as you can about Section 8 - the processes, the Housing Authorities in your area, how rents are set, what recourse you have a landlord, etc.

-My model is to buy in B & C neighborhoods and rehab so that I have one of the nicest properties in the area.  Demand is high & supply is low for Section 8 rentals in general but if you have a nicer properties, the demand is so high.  This allows me to attract & retain the best tenants out there.

-Screen your tenants meticulously using a solid screening process, just like you would market tenants.

-Manage to your lease.  No exceptions.  Be sure you perform as well.

-Section 8 is not perfect for everyone or in every area.  I think it's difficult to do if you aren't pretty focused on it because it is very process oriented so trying to manage Section 8 rentals alongside market ones exactly like you manage market rentals may be tough.

There's a lot more on Section 8 - I answer a lot of questions here on BP regarding it so if you want to check out my profile and my Forum responses, I think it will lead you to a lot of discussions (not just my opinions) that you wouldn't even think to ask at this point.

Let me know if I can help further.