All Forum Posts by: Jennifer Hoover

 Hi! Upstate NY Seasoned Real Estate Pro here. This is not correct. Harsh winters are not why "alot of properties are in such bad shape" upstate and in the Adirondacks. Vail CO has harsh winters- not a lot of run-down shacks in Vail though, right? 

The reason many homes in Upstate NY are in rough condition has very little to do with weather or "getting run down for 6 to 7 months" and is far more socio-economical in nature. For investors, that's an important distinction to understand. This ranges many factors- from job opportunities/availability, to median incomes, even into things like codes enforcement. Many towns out here outright shun or refuse restrictive (or even reasonable) building codes (I'm on a town zoning board too, I know!) That's because of things like financial ability and resources, belief systems in rural areas about personal freedoms and property rights, and even local culture. 

Investors do best in any given area by *understanding* it. Accurate understanding of an area guides how, where, and why we should or should not invest in an area, and how it does or doesn't meet our personal goals. There are LOTS of reasons to invest in upstate, and many reasons not to. 

As an active investor here, my best advice to the Original Poster is to find a professional who actually knows (lives in, works in, has community in) the area and to have a clear definition of your own goals before deciding where to invest. Especially if you are close to retirement and don't want to do it here (long-distance management can be very tough!)

Hey Edward, I agree with everyone else about being cautious in a market that you are not familiar with... It is a VERY different playbook in smaller upstate regions than it is Downstate. That being said, I'm from here (Utica) and I'm an active, licensed agent here, AND I invest heavily in this area and own several properties and rentals here. It's absolutely a great market with far more accessible pricing than other regions in New York. There are definitely deals to be had that not only cash flow well but in my opinion also move you into an equity position much faster because of the lower prices and the fairly consistent appreciation. We also have a lot of industry coming in to the area (Google Rome NY, Cree, microchip plant, or new Utica hospital to get a feel). Please reach out to me anytime if you have specific properties you want to get a local agent's eyes on, I'm happy to weigh in or take a look. Happy investing!

The three family in the flood zone is almost definitely not a comp for the one on the main drag (pretty sure I know the 3 unit you're referencing here). No red flag on that one, been through it a few times and all is up to code as well as the owner having a great/legit reason to sell. Garage won't work as livable unit per area codes and flood zone combined with a poured slab last I checked. Find an agent in our area who will walk you through all of this! These are all questions that should (and can easily) be answered by an agent who knows multifamily and investment. My shameless plug is that I am one of those agents (as well as an active investor for 12 years), however there are several of us locally who are very good at this type of analysis. BP is great, and the big-picture advice here is great, but you sound like you might benefit from more localized advice/expertise. Connect with other local investors here if you can... there are lots of us!

One thing with Utica that I would suggest as a caveat is the lack of legal/functional/dynamic property management options in the area. I have seen investors come and go here in fairly frequent cycles, lots of turnover.

I used to spend way too much time. Now I do the same as another poster said and order on the app (actually, I dont even do that anymore, I just text my Lowes for Pros guy what I need directly) and they have it waiting at the Pro Desk, already paid for with the card associated with the Pro account. When my guys go in to shop they can also put it on my account because they're signed up as authorized users. Convenient! Usually they load it up with me too! I used to hate Lowe's. Now, not so much.

Hi Nina! I've bought through our county tax auction before, and also through an online auction house. I'm not sure how similar that is to your auction situation, but both were very profitable for me. 

Many county/city auctions have a "preview period" or let you make an appointment to go through. Our area does one day and has a person at every property on the docket to be auctioned and you can go thru any/all. 

My piece of advice is an obvious one, but it would be to make sure you get clean title! Also helpful for me was letting my real estate attorney know ahead of time what shenanigans I was getting into. He was able to give me good advice and tell me what to do from his perspective as the one who would have to get/review title docs etc for resale later (I'm in NY, an attorney state).

Lastly, check those property taxes and then check them two more times! I've had bills come up inaccurately because of the way they were held or paid while held with a lienholder or with the county.

Also have fun, I scored such great deals this way. I still own my first 4 unit from an online auction I bought like 10 years ago!

Honestly all but three of my deals have been right off the MLS. I hear so many investors go on and on about all the work they put in to get "off market deals". I get it, but seems like a lot of extra energy for a 'fish in a barrel' area like ours. I have not particularly needed to do that; there are great deals listed. In Philly where we had property, it was very competitive and off market deals were gold nuggets but it's just different here. So yes, that is indeed typical for our area, and I understand how atypical it is in most. But yeah, it's mostly just that easy here to find a deal... although maybe I should keep that quieter!!

There is an absolute TON of demand. I had over 200 inquiries on my last rental posting. Only about 1/3 of those made it through screening. That's still a lot of qualifying renters. I ended up finding two really good tenants within a day of posting. There is a lot of "weeding out" to be done, but yes, enough quality renters to make it worthwhile. I'm also extremely picky and thorough for renter screening, so others may have a different experience.

Hi Mike, I'm an agent in Utica and invest nearby in the Mohawk Valley. I've been really happy with investing here, and have been doing it for 12 years. Our area feels "up and coming" again for the first time in quite some time, but our price points are still super reasonable and rents arent so far behind bigger areas in upstate and central NY. One of the snags I do see for out of area investors is the lack of quality property management companies/teams here, and also that many agents CAN sell multifamily but arent necessarily well-versed in them and dont fully understand the numbers and issues that matter to investors.

Hi Mark! Feel free to give me a shout if you want. I invest and practice real estate here in the Mohawk Valley and CNY. I can introduce you to some folks depending on your needs and goals. I'm an agent here, and also an investor and flipper. Happy to help if I can!

Investment Info:

Small multi-family (2-4 units) buy & hold investment in Little Falls.

Purchase price: $20,000
Cash invested: $7,200

This one is two, single-family homes on the same lot. Each has three bedrooms, one bath and share a cute common area / yard in between them.

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

The home is in one of my targeted neighborhoods for purchase. It's less desirable and stigmatized, with approximately 45-60% of the homes being either foreclosed, boarded up, or in moderate to extreme disrepair. I believe the social and economic factors that pulled the neighborhood down can be reversed slowly over the next decade, and that the location, layout, and style of the neighborhood are truly worthy of a restoration and reinvention. The City of Little Falls is remarkably overlooked.

How did you find this deal and how did you negotiate it?

This deal was on the MLS. I'm a licensed agent for Coldwell Banker Faith Properties, so I negotiated directly with the seller's agent. I actually passed on this deal to begin with, but the sellers came back to me with a lower purchase price, and I took it.

How did you finance this deal?

This was a cash deal.

How did you add value to the deal?

I just closed this week, but work is starting on the first house. Even before closing, there was additional value in the deal because if needed, one of the homes could be split off and sold for an influx of cash and then the property retained would essentially be free or better.

What was the outcome?

Just started.

Lessons learned? Challenges?

I'll try to update this as I get further along in the project, but right off the bat, it was a reminder to look at everything on the market that fits your criteria. I didn't bother looking at this one for MONTHS, and even looked at several around it. Finally on a lark, I said OK, let's see this one just for kicks... and put in an offer that day. Sometimes you gotta get eyes on a deal before it clicks. If you aren't looking at properties every month, you're definitely missing deals.

Did you work with any real estate professionals (agents, lenders, etc.) that you'd recommend to others?

I'm a licensed agent specializing in the area, so I represented myself. I also worked with Emrich Land Surveying who performed an in-depth survey of the property and surrounding area. I cannot say enough about their professionalism!