All Forum Posts by: Mike C.

Well, within 24 hours of the listing there were 3 bidders, including me.   My highest bid was ~15% lower than the asking price and was basically ignored. It was a cash offer.

Link to property listing

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I was already outbid on the above property, so I would like to see what you guys would offer for this property.  I seem to greatly under value any property I am interested in.

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Notable property information:

• 2 units have been vacant since January.  4 are currently rented, all month to month.  Tenant #1 has been there for ~2 years, Tenant #2 ~5 years, Tenant #3 ~ 8 years, Tenant #4 ~15 years(elderly, recent circumstances may lead to moving) 
• 3 units have a rent of $475 and one unit is $550.  The unit pulling in $550 is due to shared sewage.  I believe the rent is reasonable for the area.  Check out a nicer place's rent: https://aspen-woods.net/
• All the units are completely electric.  The electric baseboard heat can run 300-400+ a month and insulation is crap.
• All units have separate utilities except for the previous statement about the sewage.
• Taxes are ~$5400
• First floor ceiling is only 7ft.
• Built in 1966 and built solid, however, very dated.  Renovations and repairs would probably be needed unless you want to milk and slumlord it.
  
• Repairs were done to the bear minimum.
  
• Roof and some windows/doors have been replaced sometime in last 10 years.
• .5 acre lot
• Each unit has 2 bedrooms, 1 full bath, eat in kitchen, and living room on the 2nd level. A small 1 car garage(only 1 tenant actually uses it), laundry/storage room, and a "bonus" room right when you walk into the units is on the first floor.

If there is any more information that you need, let me know. I spent a good while actual speaking with 2 of the tenants.

I spoke with a contractor today and it seems it is extremely easy to become a contractor in the state of PA.  No test or anything required.  Just have to pay for your license and get insurance through a normal insurance company.

Why do you suggest against starting with a fourplex?

I have no "real" experience in construction and I do not personally know any GCs.  So it is looking like a no go, unless I make friends with one..haha

There are really only 3 difficult things after the shell is up: Electrical wiring, Plumbing, and HVAC.  I have people that are able to help me with the the electrical and plumbing.  HVAC, I planned to have a professional come in and do the duct work on one unit, then copy it for the remaining 3. 

I could even have one unit that has the electrical, plumbing, and HVAC completed by a professional, then copy it for the remaining 3, since all the units mirror each other.  

I only called one bank so far. They said I would have to become an insured contractor(I have no idea what this entails).  I was hoping it was not like that across the board.

This is an investment, but if I had to live in one to secure a loan, I would think about doing it.

I will be pulling in favors from family members, but yeah even if it did extend to 6-12 months, it is still worth it.

My plan is to build a fourplex(townhomes).  I have received quotes for just the shell/frame and a complete move-in ready build.  The difference is close to 150k. I am comparing the complete build to the cost of the shell, plus my supplies cost.

I figure it is worth my time, even paying the mortgage out of pocket while I complete the several months of work myself.  Electrical, plumbing, insulation, drywall, flooring, kitchens, and baths will be completed by myself.  

Is it possible to acquire a loan like this without being a contractor?  ..or is this just a horrible idea?

 It is not standard, it would be a perk, like radiant floor heating

Radiant floor heating hands down is the best, but it is also the most expensive.   I am not sure the appeal of radiant floor heating will be worth it, at least in my area.

The warm-air gas furnaces seem to be cheaper than the hot water boilers, however, boilers seem to last longer.

I will not be running anything through the firewalls.  I have always planned to have a furnace for each unit.  I 100% want all utilities separate.

I have no contacted local installers yet.

So what type of gas furnace and distribution is recommended?

What would be the most cost effective and efficient heating to install in a fourplex?  (Two floors, slab foundation)

Electric and gas are available.  

Electric is ~$0.12-14 per kWh 

Gas is ~$9 perMCF

Location: Western PA