All Forum Posts by: Patricia Steiner

@Nathaniel K.

In response to your questions:

1. We require candidates (pre-application) to text/email us a copy of the front page of their Voucher that shows how much they are eligible for in terms of rent price by zip code.  If their voucher is for less, we simply tell them they're not eligible to rent the property; some will offer to pay the difference on the side - and that's illegal so still a no go.  By requiring the voucher upfront, you know you have someone who is eligible and for how much.

2. Fair Market Price. Two things here - look up what the maximum rent the Housing Authority is paying by zip code and room count on their webpage (normally under Landlord forms). Different Authorities have their own guidelines but HUD generally sets the payment struction. Then this: NEVER let Housing tell you what the FMP of your property is without giving them your own valuation. When they know that you know, 'adjustments' can be made - especially in markets like mine that are experiencing an epic housing shortage. There are also sites like affordablehousing.com who have a fair market calculator which gives some ammunition to your ask as well.

Be sure to know how all this works before taking the plunge. Read all the landlord materials - and know you have to complete an application to become an approved HUD Landlord and pass an inspection (at their expense). Hope this helps...

@Scott Mac

Kick those folks to the curb...and the fastest way to do so without having to do any of the heavy lifting is to contact their caseworker at the Housing Authority and advise that eviction for lease term violations need to commence immediately.  In some Housing Authorities, the Notice To Quit for Reasons Other Than Non-Payment of Rent (Cure Letter) is completed by the caseworker. It provides 7-days to cure or eviction begins. In reality what happens is the caseworker informs the tenant that they are going to lose their subsidy - and if they want to retain it, they need to leave. They'll even issue a new Voucher to allow them to get another place.

As I posted earlier, we've never had an issue with any Section 8 Tenant that we personally screened/selected. But the ones we inherited with a purchase were obviously nothing more than a warm body thrown in to collect rent.  We got them out quickly; I personally went to the property to take photos to share with Housing (and I'm not a PM) and posted a Notice on the door.  I then sent the Notice to the caseworker who said it would be handled on her end.  It was; the landlord even kept the security deposit.  A new Section 8 tenant was in within two weeks so no real interruption in cash flow; the neighbors were thrilled as were we.  This wasn't an isolated event - we had about 3 of these inherited folks to deal with.  And, that's why my recommendation is to acquire as 'vacant possession' because this chaos isn't worth it.  (And, a quick story on that...a seller had the life of his children and wife threatened when he told his Section 8 client that he was selling the property and that she had to move. Police, Social Workers, Housing all intervened...and my client dodged it all by refusing to closing until the tenant was out).  

I hope you'll take action to get those folks out of your property.  You're a landlord/business man - not a social worker and those who are need to come and get their "clients."

Sorry you're going through this...

Some of my clients target a portion of their portfolios to SFH for rental to Section 8 tenants. Not all Housing Authorities operate the same way so it pays to interview them (county office versus city). What has worked for my clients with Section 8 has been:

1. Rehabbing the houses as any other rental - new flooring, granite, etc. And, expecting the tenant to maintain it in that condition by actually teaching them how to do it (the right cleaners, etc).  Photos are taken a move-in and the tenant signs each acknowledging condition; they are given a copy for their records (and many use the photos as bragging rights with their friends and family).

2. Tenants are screened like any other; any past eviction is a deal breaker as is any criminal behavior.  What's different from non-Section 8 to Section 8 is the credit score; many of these candidates have no credit history at all so the score is low (versus being low due to non-payment). 

3. We look for tenants who are employed - most are single parent households, where the mother is a nurse/caregiver, and there are 2 or 3 children who are in school or even in college.  We don't want those folks who have nothing to do so they do nothing good while hanging out full time in the property.  We look at it as a 'hand up' versus a 'hand out' opportunity.

4. Security deposit and renter's insurance are required. There is no grace period on rent...it is due on the 1st and if not paid on the 1st, their caseworker will be notified on the 2nd that eviction for non-payment of rent should commence.  

5. Inspections are at least semi-annually.  No lease is renewed until the property is inspected.  Section 8 will also inspect the property pre-tenancy and annually). Tenants are required to report maintenance issues, maintain the yard, pay utilities and for pest control.

Inherited Section 8 Tenants (those that came with the purchase of a property) have not been the best and we part with those quickly. But every tenant acquired and screened as stated above have been long-time, multiple year tenants - with several who worked their way out of the program to become financially independent (celebrate that!) and remained on as tenants.

Know the program, know the caseworker, meet all the deadlines - including the short window to request rent increases annually - and it's a 'do good' with a great ROI (since our city office pays market rent - and sometimes higher - for a SFH) while providing the landlord with a more secure cash flow source.

Hope this helps...

@Colleen F.

Landlords need to do regular inspections of their tenant occupied properties; quarterly or semi-annually at least. And, a lease should never be renewed without the landlord inspecting the premises.  The inspection can be guised as a review of upcoming maintenance needs rather than as something that may appear threatening to the tenant.  And, now to your question (my apologies): had an inspection been completed during the occupancy and the stove was damaged or had been replaced with one that wasn't safe, the smoke detector had been tampered with/broken, whatever - and any other damage was noted, the landlord could have forced a claim under the Renter's Insurance Policy.  Those repairs would have been made under that policy and avoided the security deposit drama which is unfolding for this landlord. Also, the landlord would have known about the lease terms being violated - like smoking and rats - and could have addressed those at that time.  When landlords fail to inspect and manage to the lease, 'stuff' like this happens.  

Security Deposit offsets are highly scruntinized by the court system. Each state has it's on set of acceptable conditions for offset and only the depreciated value of an asset is awarded; receipts, photos, documentation is also recorded by the court and the tenant is entitled to that documentation as well.  Renter's insurance is about replacement/repair so why would a landlord not hold the tenant accountable and have damages repaired under a tenant purchased policy?  The duty to inspect is the key to avoiding all of this drama and expense.

Fun, huh?

@Linda Thomas

@Greg M.

Linda, stick with what you've already reported.  If you already had paint and you used it, you would not be willing to assess a paint charge to this property.  Make a case surrounding what you've already stated to the tenant.  As for the smoke detector, they have a life of 10 years...the tenant was there for 8.  You're not entitled to a new smoke detector, just the depreciated value of a new one - or 20% of a new detector.  The complexity is here because of the long time the tenant occupied the property.  If they had been a one or even two year tenant, no biggie - but 8 years is at the obsolete point for most components.  Investors - including me - tend to think we're due to receive move-in condition when a tenant departs - but we're not.  It's that less normal wear and tear - and lifespan of components.  If a tenant breaks the stove, you're not entitled to a new stove when a 8 year old stove was in the unit.  

If it were me, I would look at what I sent the tenant and support that case - by citing the lease and landlord/tenant law.  Don't try to make up different scenarios because it will just discredit you.  Stick with what's out there and the worst outcome is that you will have to make a partial refund to these tenants who you can now enjoying having gone.

Best...

I think you're missing one thing here:  The tenant is disputing the whole amount in an attempt to intimidate/manipulate you so you'll pay them the full amount to make this whole thing go away.

And, you may have overplayed your hand a tad; eight year tenancies are rare and the case for wear and tear is strong.  You'll lose on the paint...most landlords repaint after one or two years so that will be challenged outright.  Pest - the tenant will claim there were none when they lived there and it must have happened since they're departure.  The stove...they'll claim it's the same one or that they had no choice but to replace it since you wouldn't when the other one broke.  Most landlords I know repaint after each tenant leaves after a year or so and flooring, appliances, and the like do not fare well after 8 years of tenant life.

I'm playing hardball with you here to prepare you for what is about to come your way.  My best counsel to you is to KNOW your state's law, reconsider wear and tear versus actual damage, and go make your well documented and supported case.  Be factual - don't mention they became a pain at the end of their stay (no doubt they did) - and support every offset better.  The smoking claim and odor/damage is valid but most states require that you hire professional contractors in order to be reimbursed for it.  Again, do your homework...

No...more than likely, there is something else in play here - maybe the clog was due to pouring something done the drain that shouldn't have been done.  You need to get your handyman or plumber to the property and assess the damage.  If the tenant caused the damage, then they can pay for it using someone you know and trust.  

Any time you allow your property to be managed by the tenant, it is a risk.  

Just my opinion/experience...

Get a survey - don't you want to know what you own?  It's not what you see but what is actually deeded.  It's a must have.  And, when you get it, present it to the seller with an Addendum (in writing) that the encroachment must be cured to secure clear title prior to closing.  Factual.  This happens every day.  If you close with the encroachment, it becomes your problem to cure.    And, why use an agent if you're not going to take real estate advice from them?  Surround yourself with professionals who know more than you do and let them fight the battles to cure what is wrong.

Get the survey.  Buy the property - not the seller's problems.

Do you have a scope of work?  I bet not.  And, you need one now more than ever.  You don't allow the contractor to hold your property hostage.  One way you ensure that is to have a schedule of what is going to be done each and every day until completed - and manage to it.  Photos need to be sent to you at the close of each day proving that the work was done.  If you're local, you should be on site.  If you want the job done, then manage the contractor.  You don't hire someone and walk away - you stay engaged and hold them accountable.  My recommendation would be:

1.  Meet with the contractor and complete a scope of work together; you can find the forms online.  Be specific.  Without a doubt, they need to be at your property every single day until it's completed.  No excuses.  They already finished someone else's job while you waited.  Bet that guy was hands on...

2.  Manage to the scope of work - and at this point, on a daily basis.  Are they showing up? What time are they starting work?  How many people are working there? What time do they stop each day? Is the property cleaned up before they leave?  Was the work per the scope completed?  If not, they better have a great reason - and it cannot change the timeline. They'll need to make it up by bringing in more trades or whatever it takes.

Bottom line:  You're running a business and if you don't run it, someone else will run their own agenda ahead of yours.  You have to step in and get involved.  Your legal remedies will only delay the work further and cause conflict when what you want is for the work to be done.  Be a nice, understanding, absent guy and you'll be left behind.  Be a jerk and they'll sabotage you.  Just manage to the scope and insist that each day's milestone be met.

Again, you're running a business.  Go run it...

Don't leave extra bedding out for them but have it available (like in a locked closet or storage cabinet) should it be requested. A weekend stay does not generally warrant a change of linen except in cases of "something happened."

And, we generally leave a couple of pods per day of their stay; if you leave the container, it will be a departing with the guests when they leave (lesson learned by every new vacation rental owner).

Congrats on your incoming guest.  Cleanliness rules the review so double check that and you're good.

Best...