All Forum Posts by: Patrick Roberts
Patrick Roberts has started 4 posts and replied 1085 times.
Post: Grant programs or low interest loans

- Lender
- Charleston, SC
- Posts 1,116
- Votes 940
Grants/subsidies for residential real estate investment are basically non-existent.
Post: HELOCS on Single Family Investment properties

- Lender
- Charleston, SC
- Posts 1,116
- Votes 940
Quote from @Alfredo Cardenas:
Quote from @Patrick Roberts:
Helocs on investment properties are hard to find, and even when you do find them, they tend to be more like hybrid Heloc/Closed-End Seconds than true revolvers. As an example, Angel Oak offers a Heloc for investment properties, but they require a significant draw at closing than cant be repaid for a year (I believe it's a year).
There are a few wholesale lenders like A&D Mortgage and Deephaven that are offering DSCR 2nd position liens right now. These are closed-end seconds, though, meaning that it functions like a cashout - you get the full loan amount at closing and then it amortizes until repaid. These arent terrible products in select use cases.
Some smaller banks will offer commercial lines of credit secured against investment properties. These tend to require resting every year or so, so this may or may not work for what you have in mind.
Thanks Patrick. Angel Oaks seems like a better solution. I will require a significant first draw at closing. I just don't want to draw the entire amount at closing. Do you have their contact info?
Angel Oak is a wholesaler lender. I dont think they have a retail channel (I could be wrong about that). You'll need to work with a broker or lender who can originate for them to access their products.
Post: HELOCS on Single Family Investment properties

- Lender
- Charleston, SC
- Posts 1,116
- Votes 940
Helocs on investment properties are hard to find, and even when you do find them, they tend to be more like hybrid Heloc/Closed-End Seconds than true revolvers. As an example, Angel Oak offers a Heloc for investment properties, but they require a significant draw at closing than cant be repaid for a year (I believe it's a year).
There are a few wholesale lenders like A&D Mortgage and Deephaven that are offering DSCR 2nd position liens right now. These are closed-end seconds, though, meaning that it functions like a cashout - you get the full loan amount at closing and then it amortizes until repaid. These arent terrible products in select use cases.
Some smaller banks will offer commercial lines of credit secured against investment properties. These tend to require resting every year or so, so this may or may not work for what you have in mind.
Post: Looking for hard/private money lenders

- Lender
- Charleston, SC
- Posts 1,116
- Votes 940
Quote from @Lucas Vanroboys:
Quote from @Patrick Roberts:
The property being your primary residence will kill most DSCR/hard money/ABL options as these are business-purpose only. The wall youre hitting is that when the property securing a loan is your primary residence (a dwelling), the loan becomes a consumer loan and must comply with Dodd Frank and consumer finance laws, primarily with the Ability to Repay (ATR) rule.
You will need to establish residency elsewhere prior to being eligible for any business-purpose loan. Also, boarder income (SRO/Single-Room Occupancy) adds another layer of complexity to this.
Very helpful, thanks.
I am thinking I can use the primary to get a revolving LOC to fund future investments and as my source of liquidity going forward. Not trying to DSCR the primary. Then definitely going to create LLC's for future investment properties and thinking of financing the purchase's with a combo of LOC liquidity and hard money or bridge loans and then re-fi into a DSCR after rehab. Could go straight to DSCR if there is no significant value add rehab too. Essentially wanting to do a BRRRR with the LOC as liquidity source.
I could be very wrong with this so I'd love to hear your thoughts on this rough plan. Key word in there is "rough" as I don't really have connections or a network to make this happen, specifically bridge or hard money loans.
Generally speaking, this plan is workable. Get a Heloc on the condo while you still have it as a primary (finding a lender who will offer a Heloc on a condo is another story), and then use this as emergency liquidity. Try to pile up some actual cash as well. You can use DSCR loans for purchases at 80% LTV on tenant ready properties, or potentially use hard money + cash to buy distressed and rehab, then refi with a DSCR. Start networking with lenders in your area now to get into the weeds of what it will take to prequal you for options like these.
Post: Renovation VA Loan Lenders

- Lender
- Charleston, SC
- Posts 1,116
- Votes 940
I recommend using the Lenders tab. You can filter by state and specifics and look at their bio prior to reaching out.
Post: Any private lenders who allow less than 20% down payment and 740 FICO for DSCR loans?

- Lender
- Charleston, SC
- Posts 1,116
- Votes 940
Quote from @Stan J.:
Quote from @Patrick Roberts:
Lenders who will allow 15% down are out there, but the terms will be horrible to the point that most deals arent profitable. From a lender's perspective: 25% down is the gold standard, 20% down is meh, and 15% gets sketchy.
If it's a quality investment, the % doesn't matter. I don't blame lenders though. It takes skill to go unconventional.
Very wrong. The LTV absolutely matters. You need an equity partner for this, not a lender. No reason to bring 90% of the capital and bear almost all the risk only to get a limited return.
Post: Any private lenders who allow less than 20% down payment and 740 FICO for DSCR loans?

- Lender
- Charleston, SC
- Posts 1,116
- Votes 940
Lenders who will allow 15% down are out there, but the terms will be horrible to the point that most deals arent profitable. From a lender's perspective: 25% down is the gold standard, 20% down is meh, and 15% gets sketchy.
Post: Insuring beach home

- Lender
- Charleston, SC
- Posts 1,116
- Votes 940
Find out whether the quote is actual cash value (ACV) or replacement cost estimate (RCE). A lot of insurers are offering ACV as a way to keep premiums down in high cost areas. The tradeoff is that ACV brings depreciation into the value - so if a roof has to be replaced and costs $30k, but it's ACV was only $5k at the time of loss, then insurance is only paying $5k. Make sure you have coverage for hurricanes/wind and hail. If you have a lender on the purchase, I'd be shocked if they allow you to proceed with insufficient insurance. We dig into the quote to make sure the collateral is sufficiently protected.
Post: Heloc application process

- Lender
- Charleston, SC
- Posts 1,116
- Votes 940
Varies heavily by bank/lender. Most Heloc lenders are banks with depositor funds; the ones that are not usually make you draw on the line initially to capture some yield. I would guess that the $5k charge is an initial draw. If the $5k is lender fees, that seems high. Most credit unions and small banks in the areas I lend in will close these for under $2,500 all in.
As for the appraisal, some lenders charge up front for it, some get a credit card authorization to charge for it only if the loan doesnt close, and some just eat it (relatively few do this) if the deal falls apart. Same goes for credit report fees.
Post: Red Flags to be aware of in the DSCR/ Hard Money Lending Space

- Lender
- Charleston, SC
- Posts 1,116
- Votes 940
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Erik Estrada:
1. Nice looking terms that are not realistic with the current market.
I am not sure why some investors still fall for this one. Everyone is after the lowest rate/ no cost/low cost loan. You will probably get this at a local bank or credit union if you have other assets invested with them, but not in the hard money/non-qm lending space. Lenders, brokers, and loan officers are in the business to help you get financing and make money. They are not going to cut you any favors and do your loan basically for free. What I see most commonly is Investors calling up a bunch of lenders or emailing them, plugging all the terms on a spreadsheet and going for the lowest one. I wish it was that simple, but you are not accounting for the fact that this industry is not regulated like a consumer purpose loan. You will very easily fall into the trap of a bait and switch if you don't actually take the time to research the companies and ask the right questions.
2. Getting the runaround (requesting more docs, taking longer than usual, or just simply not being straight forward)
This usually happens if you are working with a broker that doesn't know what they are doing. If you keep pushing back your closing date, and the broker is constantly going around your questions, this is clearly a sign that you may not close on the loan. Always ask for conditional approval letters and review them with your broker.
3. They have a do it yourself business model.
There are a lot of lending companies and broker shops that have a do it yourself model. This is not good as you basically risk screwing up your own financing. An experienced loan officer is going to look at your file and ask for the docs he/she deems necessary in advance. This avoids you sending in items that will kill your deal or make it difficult for you to close on the loan.
I saw in another site last night another one, the borrower was working with a lender and title company but was sending money to the lender. Sent $13k in total to lender for pre-closing cost items then the lender asked for another $2500. The person finally asked people online about the fee only to realize it was all a complete scam. That is another one that blows my mind is people do not know where to send money as this scam is as old as the nigerian prince heir to the thrown with $20M waiting for you.
"A fool and his money are soon parted". But hey, I bet that fake lender had great rates and 100% financing.
It seems like everyone is so worried about not paying for what they want these days that common sense goes out the window.