Skip to content
×
Pro Members Get
Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
ANNUAL Save 16%
$32.50 /mo
$390 billed annualy
MONTHLY
$39 /mo
billed monthly
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
×
Try Pro Features for Free
Start your 7 day free trial. Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties.
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Randy Bloch

Randy Bloch has started 5 posts and replied 256 times.

Post: Cash Out retirement fund!! Is it stupid for me??

Randy BlochPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Minneapolis
  • Posts 257
  • Votes 244

@Chris C.  See response to your comments.

1) When you roll over pension to an IRA the investment opportunities can be much greater than the stock market. You could SDIRA like @Carl Fischer suggested. Inside of SDIRA you can invest in almost anything (private placement, Gold Bars, REI, A passive business, crowdfunding REI) I am sure Carl could do this part more justice than me. Also, if you were to just roll it over to a IRA with brokerage house (Schwab, Fidelity) You could invest in a wide variety of ETF's, REITs or mutual funds that are or are not connected to stock market. You could invest in bonds, REITS, commodities. Not sure of your definition of the stock market so will stop there.

2)  back of napkin calculation  

Option A take current balance of your 401k and make assumption on your compound annual return until 59.5.  Calculate the tax you owe if you were to withdrawal subtract it from the balance.  I think 8% return pretax would be fair assumption.  Technically, it would continue to grow beyond 59.5 as you wont withdraw it all at 59.5, you will just start withdraws.

Option B

sum up the $1800 per month additional cash flow you receive every month until you are 59.5. Technically, you should calculate the future value of this because you are not getting this all at one time.

Would be helpful to have a fee only financial planner that understands real estate help you with this model.  I am going to be consulting one of these with my exit plan as well.

3) is accounted for in analysis above, because you don't pay the penalty in option A

4) It really comes down to you are concerned with CF because you are semi retiring. I am pretty sure Option A is going return way more than option B, because you just have earn a rate return in your IRA that is greater than the interest rate on RE mortgages, which is probably lower than ~5%. That rate of return is going to be on higher balance because it is before tax and penalty. Plus you have the tax writeoff of the interest. I dont see anyway that option A is not higher....but you need CF to get to 59.5.

Another option is to start taking withdrawals from you 401K to supplement the cash flow gap.  There are specific rule on you how to do this prior 59.5 and not pay the penalty, maybe a CPA can chime in how the equal payments withdrawal of 401k works without penalty? 

I have given these scenarios a lot thought....as I am in similar situation at age of 45 looking to semi retire.  Well, I have never considered cashing out 401k, but I have 200K in cash and am debating do I pay off mortgages to get more CF, invest in more RE, or stock market.  I have decided you keep all my properties and the 401k as is and if i need to supplement my CF I will go get PT job that I like, perhaps in real estate.

Post: Tax CPA recommendation in Northern Virginia area

Randy BlochPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Minneapolis
  • Posts 257
  • Votes 244

@Cody Z.   Almost what I was trying to say.....I would not say premium....was just saying they bring value that justify the expense.  Most people think they can't afford a CPA... I think most people cannot afford not to have a CPA.

Post: Cash Out retirement fund!! Is it stupid for me??

Randy BlochPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Minneapolis
  • Posts 257
  • Votes 244

@Chris C

One more point, I like having leverage on real estate investments to increase my returns.  I am going to likely get a PT job doing something that i like to make sure I have enough cash flow. 

Post: Cash Out retirement fund!! Is it stupid for me??

Randy BlochPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Minneapolis
  • Posts 257
  • Votes 244

As someone who has their net worth split about 50/50 between 401K and real estate I could do something similar  and retire of the cash flow.  I do not for a couple reasons

1) Diversification - I don't want all of my net worth in real estate

2) The money in 401K will continue to grow tax free.  So your statement about having to pay the taxes now or later is true, but your 401K is growing on the pretax amount

3) I dont want to pay the penalty.  I can leave my 401K grow until 59.5 and use cash flow to get me from my current age to 59.5.  In 15 yr your 401k balance should double twice.  

Not sure if you pension is equivalent to 401K?  Please clarify.

Post: Cash Out retirement fund!! Is it stupid for me??

Randy BlochPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Minneapolis
  • Posts 257
  • Votes 244
Originally posted by @Chris C.:

This flies in the face of everything that we have ever learned about retirement accounts.  So I want to start this by stating that it is stupid for 99% of the people out there to cash out retirement accounts but I would like feedback on my situation.

Brief update on my situation:

  1. I plan on retiring from my full time job in June of 2020/ Cash Flow will be very important
  2. I am 44 years old
  3. I will be living off my rental, fix and flip income, and other real estate related activities
  4. My company is freezing our pensions effective June 30th 2019.  We have the option of rolling over this pension or cashing it out.

My thought is to cash out my 401k and pension and payoff as much real estate related financing as I can with the funds left after taxes and penalties.  This will accomplish the following.

  1. Increase monthly cash flow by $1800
  2. After paying 10% penalty I will save $4400 over what I would pay in interest in 2 years / In other words, interest savings more than pay the penalty
  3. In my opinion the taxes are a wash as I would have to pay those now or when I retire.

There you go,  please poke holes in this plan and tell me what I am not considering.

Can clarify what you mean by rolling over your pension? I assume you mean you can take a lump sum and put it in an IRA

  1. My company is freezing our pensions effective June 30th 2019. We have the option of rolling over this pension or cashing it out.

Post: Tax CPA recommendation in Northern Virginia area

Randy BlochPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Minneapolis
  • Posts 257
  • Votes 244

It was serious question, what might seem expensive to one, might be reasonable to another.  No point in me making a recommendation if it turns out that u think it is too expensive.  Many people lose far more in tax savings than the fee of a good CPA because they think they can do their taxes themselve.  

Post: Tax CPA recommendation in Northern Virginia area

Randy BlochPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Minneapolis
  • Posts 257
  • Votes 244

@Solomon Tadesse

What is reasonable? CPA’s need to make a living too. A good real estate CPA will will save you more than their fees.

Post: Stockpile cash or invest now? Please chime in.

Randy BlochPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Minneapolis
  • Posts 257
  • Votes 244

Inflation has been over 2.1% in years

Post: Stockpile cash or invest now? Please chime in.

Randy BlochPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Minneapolis
  • Posts 257
  • Votes 244

@CJ M.

How do u come up with the cost of money being 4%

Post: Local Credit Union's in Minneapolis, MN Area

Randy BlochPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Minneapolis
  • Posts 257
  • Votes 244

@Aaron Owen  Maybe you should check out this meetup in MSP tomorrow.   The speaker specializes in 203K loans....I dont know him so am not vouching for him.  Just got an email about the meetup and thought about your post.

Details

* First time homebuyer grants - single family or duplex
* Fix N Flip Loans for less than hard money
* Qualify for a mortgage the easy way - even self employed
* Get a construction loan if repairs are needed
* BUY A SINGLE FAMILY OR DUPLEX WITH ONLY $1000

Presented by Keith Lis of Gateway Loans. Keith specializes in down payment assistance programs from MHFA, 203K loans and is really great at working with investors whether you are new or scaling a portfolio. The Encore Investment Team from Realty Group has helped hundreds of people buy, sell or invest to build strong real estate portfolios with the art of Real Estate Investing MADE SIMPLE.

****$25 per meeting - BRING A FRIEND FOR FREE. Dues are $200 per year for your real estate related business or entity.

Speakers are experienced experts that offer tips, tools, techniques and trends on the latest profit building ideas in real estate investing. It’s important to be dialed in to cash in on today’s market.
** Topics include: contracts for deed, cash flow analysis, trends, credit, REITS, hard money, accounting, insurance, foreclosures, 1031’s, taxes, legal, strategies to make money in real estate investing, wealthy mindset techniques and more!

https://www.meetup.com/RealFreedomNOW/events/259308292/