All Forum Posts by: Ken Boone

So based on those revenue numbers you need figure out your operating costs with your mortgage and see what is left over.  Then you have to decide is the time investment on this family property worth the income it produces for you.  If you decide it is worth it, then by all means it is do-able.  

@Ben Ertl You should be able to manage that cabin from 3 hours away.  You need some automation and some tools in place.  You need to hire a dedicated cleaner and have a local handyman you can trust.  Also good to have a backup cleaner and backup handyman or 2.  The cleaner should be your eyes and ears on the property not your parents.  We manage 3 cabins and under construction on #4 and they are 3.5 hours away from us.  My buddy lives in Seattle and manages a 6 bedroom cabin in the smokies and that's a lot more than 3 hours away.  Again key things are cleaners and handymen.  If you can get those two items taken care of, then you should rarely have to visit the property.  At that point you are simply handling customer inquiries, and responding to minor issues.. i.e. you talk to guest and then call cleaner or handyman to take care of it if needed.  This should absolutely be do-able.  With a cleaner, you want to set a fixed fee - not by the hour.  You include that cleaning fee in your listing so it is merely passed through from the guests to the cleaner.  That way you always know your costs.  Let's say it takes them 4 hours to clean on average.  Sometimes the place wont need a lot of cleaning and they are out in 3 hours and sometimes it needs more cleaning and it takes them 5 hours.  It will all work out.  Now occasionally, it might be trashed and takes a lot longer.  In that instance I tell my cleaners bill me extra for it.  I want them to be happy too.

I totally disagree with the cameras on a private hot tub or private pool. Hotels do for liability reasons and those are public environments. I would never stay at a place where a camera was pointed at a private hot tub or pool. #1 rule with cameras in STRs is that you need to explicitly let your guests know where those cameras are and what they are covering in your listing. If I was booking an STR with a hot tub and it said camera monitoring hot tub I would NOT book that place. Sorry just gonna think the owner is a perv and not gonna book there. Also, if I rented a place with a camera on a hot tub and the camera was not disclosed - I would be ticked off and you are not gonna get a very good review. I know of one owner that put a camera on the outside monitoring his back door but he faced it so it looks at the back door and in through the window into his indoor private pool. I don't know if he has since moved it but shortly after he got some not so happy guests because of that.

I have hot tubs at all my STRs and some of my STRs have private indoor pools as well.  For liability reasons I work with my insurance company and they provide guidance on what does/does not need to be done to cover me.  But in the end each owner has to do what they are comfortable with.  I for one want my guests to be comfortable and most will not with a camera pointed at a private pool or hot tub.

As far as having cameras I think they are a must for the 3 main reasons @Joe Splitrock listed.  

Same as others.  Monthly pest control, yearly termite bond inspection, and yearly spring treatments for carpenter bees.

@Kristin McPherson So in that case its not really an investment but rather truly your vacation home that you are simply sharing the cost with others.  I think the arrangement that you have described is an extremely unique situation.  Any time that many folks as in friends and family, go in together on something of that magnitude - siblings or not - there are usually issues that arise at some point.  I have seen it ruin friendships and cause hardships in the family.  If you do something like that you better make sure are on really good terms and spell out all the details in a contract.  And also realize if you are using family in this arrangement, you might have some in the family that would take offense to putting things down in a contract and think the family bond is strong enough to keep it together. I have not done this type of thing, just relaying what I have seen over the years. I would not advise.  I think there would be much less headache just buying it yourself and putting it up on VRBO and Airbnb when you are not using it.  That's what most of us do here.  Get a good cleaning lady, a good handyman, and you are good to go.

@R Lindsey Folks do it. I have a friend that does it. I think most of the folks that do it, do it more like the folks that are really buying a second home and they market it as an STR to help cover the cost of it, not really as a investment. A friend of mine does it but instead of leaving them parked, he delivers to a campsite of the guests choice within so many miles kind of thing. Check out the website outdoorsy. It is basically the VRBO or AirBnb for this kind of thing.

@Jonathan Stone Pullout couches can absolutely be worth it.  Here are my examples.. I have a 2 bed cabin that sleeps 6, it has 2 rooms with real beds then a pullout.  Without the pullout it would only sleep 4.  There goes the family that has 3 kids or even 4 kids.  The reality is that the pullouts are really for the kids cause lets face it not many people want to sleep on the pullout, but generally the kids don't mind and some of them like it just because it is different.  Now having said that, if 6 adults book that cabin we have a discussion with them to make sure they know up front that 2 of them are sleeping on the pullout.  It is very clear in our listing what the sleeping arrangements are but some folks don't read and I want them to know for sure.  

Another 2 bedroom cabin I have sleeps 8.  It has 2 king suites on different floors.  Then it has a pullout in the living room and in the theater/game room.  In this scenario what I pickup is the the two family scenario.  Each floor sleeps 4, so 2 adults in each king suite and 2 kids on the couches.  I also pickup the extended family where the grandparents are in one bed, the parents are in another and the kids again get the pullout.

So yes they are absolutely worth having in these types of scenarios.  Having said that, you need to make sure you get a good commercial sleeper sofa.  We also have upgraded the mattresses to thicker commercial grade mattresses as well.  Even though, it still won't compare to a regular bed, they do up the comfort level considerably over the stock mattresses.  Although these two cabins that I mentioned are small, they are high end cabins with indoor heated pools that bring in excellent rents.  Never had a complaint about the sleeper sofas and I continue to build my list of repeat guests at these cabins.

It all depends on the numbers.. If the numbers work out great, if they don't horrible idea.  In some markets, some STRs will still cash flow at the inflated prices.  

Yea like @Joshua Strickland said - it is really about a single interface to multiple platforms. I use VRBO and AirBnb. At 1 STR it's not a big deal. I have 3 and under construction on the 4th. Being able to automate messages across both platforms is a huge time saver, being able to see 1 calendar that shows all of my properties on the same screen, seeing my bookings, my rates etc.. is a big thing. But really with 1 STR I wouldn't worry about it. And along with each one of the platforms, comes some intricacies and issues as well, but for me with my properties I wouldn't go back to not using it.

@Jessica Piff Well Jessica it sounds like you have thought through everything and have your reasons for doing this well defined.  You are well ahead of most people starting out.   I wish you the best of success in your journey!