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All Forum Posts by: Tom Gimer

Tom Gimer has started 12 posts and replied 3421 times.

Post: Title Exam shows Board of Revision transfer was found in the chain of title

Tom Gimer
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That is an expedited tax sale process used to sell "unoccupied" property... essentially vacant board-ups without any active utility accounts. 

If you're sure it's a good BRRRR candidate (sounds like a full gut+) I would look into whether obtaining a quitclaim deed from the foreclosed prior owner would affect the title insurance analysis. It's also possible the tax sale would not appear in a refi title commitment... really depends on lender requirements and how far back the tax sale was.

Good luck.

Post: 😵‍💫HELP!!😵‍💫w/ Seller financed "agreement for sale/ contract for deed"

Tom Gimer
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Quote from @Peter Walther:
Quote from @Tom Gimer:

@Peter Walther I've given this some more thought. 

The only representative required to sign the deed and convey a 100% interest in the land signed it. Bob and the other 2 branches of heirs are only entitled to share in the residuary estate. Their signatures were never going to be required to convey the land. The power to transfer it lies solely with the PR.

You're looking at this from a title insurance perspective. Look at it from the perspective of a bona fide purchaser for value... the end buyer. He/she has a deed to the land executed by the Estate's legal representative. Tell me upon what legal basis Bob still has an interest in the land rather than the proceeds.


Since Bob apparently was not party to the probate, I believe none of the actions are binding on him.  The same holds true for a creditor of the estate, unless the claim has been barred by a statute of limitation.  You cannot be a BFP against someone who's rights have not been adjudicated.

The inquiry goes much deeper than that and it's definitely not so simple and clear. Whether this would be viewed under the BFP doctrine of well-developed AZ case law or whether the statutory framework for transferring real property by affidavit (outlined and analyzed in this case: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/az-court-of-appeals/146015...) would apply depends upon the property value and all of the facts of the case. If you read the above case Bob may lose under both... and be forced to pursue the fraud / breach of fiduciary duty claims.

Post: 😵‍💫HELP!!😵‍💫w/ Seller financed "agreement for sale/ contract for deed"

Tom Gimer
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@Peter Walther I've given this some more thought. 

The only representative required to sign the deed and convey a 100% interest in the land signed it. Bob and the other 2 branches of heirs are only entitled to share in the residuary estate. Their signatures were never going to be required to convey the land. The power to transfer it lies solely with the PR.

You're looking at this from a title insurance perspective. Look at it from the perspective of a bona fide purchaser for value... the end buyer. He/she has a deed to the land executed by the Estate's legal representative. Tell me upon what legal basis Bob still has an interest in the land rather than the proceeds.

Post: 😵‍💫HELP!!😵‍💫w/ Seller financed "agreement for sale/ contract for deed"

Tom Gimer
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Quote from @Peter Walther:
Quote from @Tom Gimer:
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Tom Gimer:

@Account Closed If there are "heirs", there is no will to probate. How do you know who the true heirs are? What are Jill, John and Bob... 3 children of a deceased parent?

The title company should be able to rely upon official probate paperwork, but once they are given notice of a potentially undisclosed heir, that may create a legal duty to inquire further and perhaps a duty to the undisclosed heir. If that is the case Bob would need to prove his case under some negligence theory (or quasi-negligence theory which allows purely economic damages) or some consumer protection statute in X state.

So, IMO it's possible but not probable.

No will.
deceased spouse
3 living adult children
2 decesased adult children.
This information comes from the Obituary

Your comment: negligence theory
Not one that I thought of - interesting though


PR defrauded 3 branches of siblings/descendants... not just 1.

If the buyer was aware perhaps take immediate action to attach the proceeds and unwind the deal.

I didn't catch the fact there were two deceased children, so yes Bob owns 20% of the property.  As I wrote above, I believe neither he and now the heirs of the two dead siblings, have been defrauded.  Unless of course the two deceased children either died intestate and without children in which case their siblings would inherit or died with a will leaving the property to them.

I also should have added, Bob will need to go into mom's probate and have the court rule he is the legal child of mom and is entitled to a portion of her estate.  With the added fact of two deceased children, of course their estates will need to be probated to determine their heirs or beneficiaries.  In addition, Bob may have a cause of action for fraud against Jill and John if there was other personal property, including cash, that they divided up amongst the two of them.

Peter, most people are not going to understand the defrauded vs. attempted to be defrauded issue. And whether there is still a vested property interest vs. whether it has been stolen as intended. Think HomeTitleLock and how people perceive the effect of a fraudulent deed.

The heirs are going to need to spend cash they may not have to protect their interests. If they do nothing, they've lost their inheritance. That's defrauded in my book.

Post: Lien Waiver Signing

Tom Gimer
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Quote from @Andrew Postell:

@Juan Ayala I have never worked with a GC that has been ok with signing a lien waiver. 


 I guess you don't do construction loans.

Post: 😵‍💫HELP!!😵‍💫w/ Seller financed "agreement for sale/ contract for deed"

Tom Gimer
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Quote from @Peter Walther:
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Tom Gimer:

@Caroline Gerardo @Steve Vaughan Not sure if they do anymore but I have certainly seen lenders treat property that is occupied by the borrower as a primary residence under a land installment contract OR a lease option as a refinance... complete with 3 day rescission period.

@Tom Gimer: (Not trying to hijack the thread but)

This just happened

In a Probate sale, 3 heirs: John, Bob, Jill

Jill is appointed Personal Rep (PR) No attorney involved.

Jill notifies John but intentionally doesn’t notify Bob. John keeps quiet.

Jill sells the property to a wholesaler who is in on the scheme, quickly for cash, at considerably below fair market value. (speed of sale )

The Title & Escrow company was informed by an outside party, of this intentional omission but closes the sale of the property anyway to an innocent third party.

Jill & John split the proceeds. (obvious honesty and probate problems & Jill omitted Bob on all probate & closing forms, but that isn’t the question here,)

The paperwork from the probate court says Jill is the PR and has properly filled out the Probate paperwork.

1. Is it standard procedure for a Title company to allow a closing when they know an heir has been intentionally omitted from probate?

2. When Bob finds out he was scammed and wants his piece of the pie, the pie of which was diminished by a “sweet deal” transaction, does he have recourse with the Title company?

1. No, generally if a title agent becomes aware there is a possibility of someone who is not part of the sale may have an unrecorded interest be it an heir, an option holder or a grantee on an unrecorded deed, the agent would contact the underwriting department of the insurer for instructions on how to proceed.

2.  Bob is not an insured so no, he doesn't have recourse against the insurer.  However, if Bob is an heir and has an interest in the property, he probably has a basis for a quiet title action against the grantee to establish he has a 1/3 interest in the property.  That should trigger coverage under the title policy issued to the grantee assuming there isn't an exception for Bob's interest in the policy.


It's possible the buyer didn't obtain TI... also possible the claim would not be covered by the policy because if he/she was aware of the undisclosed heir, the buyer created or assumed the problem.

Post: 😵‍💫HELP!!😵‍💫w/ Seller financed "agreement for sale/ contract for deed"

Tom Gimer
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@Peter Walther @Chris Seveney

I believe Bob has a 1/5 interest... meaning the buyer owns only 40% of the property.

Here's the law on failing to record LIC in Maryland...

Within 15 days after the contract is signed by both the vendor and purchaser, the vendor shall cause the contract to be recorded among the land records of the county where the property lies and shall mail the recorder’s receipt to the purchaser. This duty of recordation and mailing of receipt shall be written clearly or printed on the contract. Failure to do so, or to record as required under this section within the time stipulated, gives the purchaser the unconditional right to cancel the contract and to receive immediate refund of all payments and deposits made on account of or in contemplation of the contract, if the purchaser exercises the right to cancel before the vendor records the contract.

Oh and @Account Closed yes, you hijacked the thread.

Post: 😵‍💫HELP!!😵‍💫w/ Seller financed "agreement for sale/ contract for deed"

Tom Gimer
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Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Tom Gimer:

@Account Closed If there are "heirs", there is no will to probate. How do you know who the true heirs are? What are Jill, John and Bob... 3 children of a deceased parent?

The title company should be able to rely upon official probate paperwork, but once they are given notice of a potentially undisclosed heir, that may create a legal duty to inquire further and perhaps a duty to the undisclosed heir. If that is the case Bob would need to prove his case under some negligence theory (or quasi-negligence theory which allows purely economic damages) or some consumer protection statute in X state.

So, IMO it's possible but not probable.

No will.
deceased spouse
3 living adult children
2 decesased adult children.
This information comes from the Obituary

Your comment: negligence theory
Not one that I thought of - interesting though


PR defrauded 3 branches of siblings/descendants... not just 1.

If the buyer was aware perhaps take immediate action to attach the proceeds and unwind the deal.

Post: 😵‍💫HELP!!😵‍💫w/ Seller financed "agreement for sale/ contract for deed"

Tom Gimer
Posted
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  • Posts 3,473
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@Account Closed If there are "heirs", there is no will to probate. How do you know who the true heirs are? What are Jill, John and Bob... 3 children of a deceased parent?

The title company should be able to rely upon official probate paperwork, but once they are given notice of a potentially undisclosed heir, that may create a legal duty to inquire further and perhaps a duty to the undisclosed heir. If that is the case Bob would need to prove his case under some negligence theory (or quasi-negligence theory which allows purely economic damages) or some consumer protection statute in X state.

So, IMO it's possible but not probable.

Post: Advice on Property Boundary Issue

Tom Gimer
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@Terence Zhao Whether you purchase the land itself or purchase an easement, you would approach the owner of the property upon which your existing house encroaches with an offer. If terms are agreed to they are incorporated into a final agreement which would be recorded among the land records. Your surveyor would be needed to prepare the legal description of land acquired / easement area.