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All Forum Posts by: Tom Gimer

Tom Gimer has started 12 posts and replied 3418 times.

Post: Is Subto legal?

Tom Gimer
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Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Eyal Goren:
Quote from @Mitch Messer:
Quote from @Eyal Goren:

I read that every mortgage has a Due on Sale clause, which means you have to notify the lender when you sale the property and pay the entirety of the loan when you sell the property. 

How do people work with the clause and make these kinds of deals?


First, let's be very clear here.

The mortgage your speaking of is a private agreement between the seller and the lender. The "due on sale" clause (DoSC) obligates the seller to notify the lender if the property is sold.

Failing to do so would place the seller in violation of this agreement, giving the lender the right to accelerate the loan.

But no laws are being broken here.

So, subto is neither legal nor illegal.

Second, it only works because most lenders are more interested in receiving payments than in invoking the DoSC clause and foreclosing on the property.

But, it can work, provided seller and buyer are both on board and the proper process is followed.


Thanks for the clarification. What happens if the lender does accelerate the loan? I guess the seller would like to address that in the agreement. 


If you dont pay the loan off it goes to foreclosure and the original owner gets their fico CRUSHED.  its highly risky for most mom and pops to sell on sub to.. and its simply not a way for those without substantial wherewithal to buy property and keep the seller safe.. Lots of absolute nightmares come out of sub to when folks get into title but dont have the money to pay the loan off or the ability to refi.
Short term, leaving financing in place during rehab prior to resale — great strategy with limited risk to either party. 

Long term hold, with buyer planning on carrying existing financing to term without the ability to quickly cure default — terrible strategy with huge risk for both parties. 

Post: How to secured your wholesale deal against another wholesaler

Tom Gimer
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A seller cannot “cancel” a contract that has been prepared properly unless the buyer breaches its terms. The key is knowing how to force a seller to comply with the agreement.

Post: Do we need to update existing leaseto an LLC if we move rental property to an LLC?

Tom Gimer
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@Michael Anderson If the property had been sold, it would make sense to formally assign the lease and deposit to the new owner and memorialize an agreement to collect and adjust rents after settlement, indemnify the other party for things arising during their respective ownership periods, etc. 

But because this was not an arms-length sale, the tenant could simply be notified of the change in ownership and where/who to send future rent payments. The tenant does not need to consent to the transfer of ownership. 

Post: Transferred contract to LLC, wondering why we still have to sign with our names

Tom Gimer
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The assignment did not release the original contract purchaser from liability unless the seller expressly consented to the assignment and fully released them (a novation, in effect)… which is not part of the fact pattern.

So the agent is right.

Post: Central PA Real Estate Attorney

Tom Gimer
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Quote from @Russell Brazil:

@Tom Gimer do you guys do PA?


Title work, yes. Not legal work though... thanks for asking.

Post: Why jr. Liens can be problematic when in 1st position

Tom Gimer
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Quote from @Alan Nelson:
Quote from @Tom Gimer:
Quote from @Jamie Bateman:

@Chris Seveney the reason I don't pay too much attention to junior liens when buying a first is that the borrower could always add a junior lien after I buy the 1st. I can't control that. 


You can include in the definition of default the creation of an additional lien (either voluntarily or involuntarily).

 @Tom Gimer - You are correct, and many loan docs provide that an additional encumbrance constitutes an event of default.  However, such a provision doesn't actually prevent that additional/junior lien from attaching to the property, leaving the 1st lien lender stuck with the issues @Chris Seveney mentioned.  The one good thing about such a provision is that it allows the senior lender to start foreclosure (or notice of default/cure period) immediately.      


Of course and I never suggested otherwise. But if the docs give you the right to start charging default interest, force release of the lien etc that is at least some leverage, control. 

Post: What to do when a contractor pulls a huge number out of the hat after the fact?

Tom Gimer
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@Joe S. You're going to need to pull local mechanics lien laws to determine whether a vendor needs a written contract with the owner in order to record a lien. Some states laws say for non-owner occupied property, the vendor doesn't need a written contract.

That said, in the absence of a written agreement if the lien is to be based upon the reasonable value of services provided, that $9k estimate seems like a good starting point.

Post: Why jr. Liens can be problematic when in 1st position

Tom Gimer
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Quote from @Jamie Bateman:

@Chris Seveney the reason I don't pay too much attention to junior liens when buying a first is that the borrower could always add a junior lien after I buy the 1st. I can't control that. 


You can include in the definition of default the creation of an additional lien (either voluntarily or involuntarily).

Post: Can I get my EMD Back??

Tom Gimer
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KeyGlee was planning to double close here. The agreement specifically allowed KeyGlee to use the End Buyer's EMD to secure the underlying contract with the actual seller... and to forfeit that EMD if the End Buyer failed to close. That sounds like what happened here. I would be surprised if there weren't notices given to both the defaulting End Buyer (You're in default, you must close by X date or we're forfeiting your deposit) as well as the escrow agent (Buyer defaulted, see contract Earnest Money paragraph regarding release) prior to that actually occurring. If those things did not occur, some regs may have been violated by licensees.

Regarding marketable title, unless the "liens" were in excess of $255,000 IMO there would not be an argument that the seller could not deliver marketable title. And, even if the liens were in excess of $255,000, the seller could bring cash to close and deliver marketable title.

Post: How do Subject To Offers work for the seller? Won't the loan be called due?

Tom Gimer
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Quote from @Arron Paulino:
Quote from @Tom Gimer:
Quote from @Arron Paulino:
Quote from @Joe S.:

I'm not here to promote or denounce Sub2. I will say this, there are a number of investors if you want to call them that that have VA's that are making multiple offers for them. Now you said they wanna buy it in a trust account.

Here’s my rant.. talking big words is quite stupid for them to do. It’s juvenile behavior. The confused mind says no so by them using difficult to understand terminology….They’re confusing people.


 What would that mean to buy it in a trust account?

I agree. I'm more of a straight to the point investor and just want to know what the endgame is in the deal so I have more clarity. It's not really a benefit to be confusing.

What they want to do is have the property transferred into a trust (days, hours, minutes) prior to settlement. The declaration identifies the would-be buyer as trustee; and the current owner as the beneficiary of the trust. At settlement what is sold is the beneficial interest in the trust rather than the property itself.

On paper the lender just sees a common estate planning tactic rather than a sale of the property. But what is being proposed is nothing more than an effort to avoid implication of the due on sale clause. This may actually be the best method to prevent the sale from being discovered, but of course there are other potential pitfalls.

Under federal law a transfer to a trust where the grantor retains the beneficial interest WOULD be exempt from the DOS... but notice how in the context outlined above the exemption would disappear.

So would I still technically own the properties after closing? I just want to be sure I know what I am getting myself into. To make things easier, I am really just prioritizing cash offers so the process is more seamless. 

No. The property would be transferred to a trust and at settlement you would be selling your interest in that trust. 

As a seller I would be considering offers other than subto, for sure.