Why I Switched To Passive Investing Versus Active Investing

Why I Switched To Passive Investing Versus Active Investing

Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 114 posts · 163 votes

Like many investors, I struggled with the dilemma of active versus passive investing the first few years of my investing career.

I’ll admit that the thrill of “taking down” a deal, the excitement of getting your hands dirty rehabbing the “ugly house on the block,” the challenge of learning the various aspects of the process, and the pride of seeing the amazing transformation from all your efforts were certainly rewarding. Unfortunately, all the items listed above were not the goals of why I got into real estate investing in the first place. I got into real estate investing to help reduce my dependance on my W-2 job so someday I could exit the 9-5 and be able to live on the passive income I had generated from my investing.

About two years ago, I chose to go down the path of passive investing through the syndication model versus active investing in single family rentals. Here’s just a few reasons why I chose to do that:

1. Expertise – I was not an expert at the BRRRR model or even the Turn Key Model, and I didn't have the systems in place to scale a business that could successfully collect 100+ deals I would need to hit my financials goals. Passive investing allowed me to simply pick the expert in the space I wanted to invest, and they would do the rest.

2. Time – A lot of investors will tell you that single family rentals are passive income after you get them set up and run by a property manager. This was simply not my experience. I had to have regular phone meetings with my property managers, I ended up flying to Atlanta multiple times to meet with contractors, realtors and property managers, and the amount of time that was spent looking for new deals was exhausting. After you do your due diligence on the operator, passive investing takes little, if any, time after the initial investment.

3. Passion – I found out very quickly that I am not passionate about all the nuances of the active investing business, and I believe you must be passionate about everything you do to be successful. I am, however, passionate about amazing monthly returns that give me the freedom to do what I want, when I want and with who I want after just a few short years of investing passively in real estate syndications.

4. Cash Flow – $100/month is the basic rule of thumb that many active investors use when calculating whether they’ll do a new single family home rental. Yes, $100 per month per house. A very quick calculation will tell you that you need a humongous amount of SFRs for this model to allow you to leave the rat race.

These are just four of the reasons to consider looking at adding passive investing through syndication to your financial tool belt. Your unique situation will likely uncover a few more. Let’s connect to see if it makes sense to hold just a small portion of your investments in this space.

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Paul MoorePro Member
Commercial Real Estate Fund Manager · Lynchburg, VA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y

Hi @Randy Smith! Thank you for posting this! Your experience is almost identical to hundreds of investors I've spoken with. I've spoken to very few who have successfully managed active real estate investments, especially if they have a high paying career or retirement. I wish I could take your post and copy it to hundreds of other forums about investing on the side. 

Can you imagine Michael Phelps training part time for the Olympics while he had a job? Can you imagine Taylor Swift being a part time singer while holding a server job? It makes no sense and I marvel at how people pull it off. I admit some people do pull it off but I don't see how they do it part time. And I doubt they are making as much profit as they planned or having the lifestyle they hope for. 

To those like @Vincent Plant looking to go down this path I highly recommend @Brian Burke's book The Hands-Off Investor for due diligence and @Jim Pfeifer's Left Field Investors to connect with a community of like-minded people plus education. Good luck and happy investing!

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  • Arn CenedellaPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2008 · 786 posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    @Randy Smith

    Your approach makes sense to me. 

    There is a reason for specialization of labor and time is precious. 

    Passive investing makes a lot of sense for busy professionals that have high incomes via demanding careers and a lack of time to learn the RE business and manage rental properties. 

  • Jim PfeiferBusiness Member
    Investor · Dublin, OH · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 495 votes
    3y

    I completely agree!  I made the switch from active to passive a few years ago and my returns far exceed that of my active investments - as you mentioned, I didn't have an advantage or a skill that set me apart.  Now I hire asset managers to buy the property, hire the PM and manage the asset.  

  • Member since 2022 · 4 posts · 2 votes
    3y

    Hi Randy, are you currently investing in your backyard? My brother and I are just breaking into multifamily investing and are trying to pick a market. We live in California, but not interested in investing out here for obvious reasons. Our goal is to research 3 different markets and target one of the 3. That way we can hyper focus on that one market. Anyways, long story long AZ is one of the markets on our list. Once we find our market the goal is to build a team and start evaluating and underwriting deals in that area. Just curious what markets you’re currently investing in or plan on investing in? Appreciate any feedback 🙏🏻

  • Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 114 posts · 163 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Arn Cenedella:

    @Randy Smith

    Your approach makes sense to me. 

    There is a reason for specialization of labor and time is precious. 

    Passive investing makes a lot of sense for busy professionals that have high incomes via demanding careers and a lack of time to learn the RE business and manage rental properties. 

    Thanks @Arn Cenedella.  Yes, leave the operations to the experts as a passive investor and focus on your super power in the W-2.

  • Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 114 posts · 163 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Sean Willette:

    Hi Randy, are you currently investing in your backyard? My brother and I are just breaking into multifamily investing and are trying to pick a market. We live in California, but not interested in investing out here for obvious reasons. Our goal is to research 3 different markets and target one of the 3. That way we can hyper focus on that one market. Anyways, long story long AZ is one of the markets on our list. Once we find our market the goal is to build a team and start evaluating and underwriting deals in that area. Just curious what markets you’re currently investing in or plan on investing in? Appreciate any feedback 🙏🏻

     @Sean Willette I invest in Phoenix (my backyard), Tucson, TN, and other various states through multiple funds I invest with (Open Door Capital, Ashcroft, Spartan Investment Group etc.  I'm always looking to partner and help in any way in this space.

  • Member since 2022 · 4 posts · 2 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Randy Smith:
    Quote from @Sean Willette:

    Hi Randy, are you currently investing in your backyard? My brother and I are just breaking into multifamily investing and are trying to pick a market. We live in California, but not interested in investing out here for obvious reasons. Our goal is to research 3 different markets and target one of the 3. That way we can hyper focus on that one market. Anyways, long story long AZ is one of the markets on our list. Once we find our market the goal is to build a team and start evaluating and underwriting deals in that area. Just curious what markets you’re currently investing in or plan on investing in? Appreciate any feedback 🙏🏻

     @Sean Willette I invest in Phoenix (my backyard), Tucson, TN, and other various states through multiple funds I invest with (Open Door Capital, Ashcroft, Spartan Investment Group etc.  I'm always looking to partner and help in any way in this space.

    @Randy Smith Awesome! I appreciate the response, Randy! I’ll definitely keep you in mind when we have something in place 

  • Rental Property Investor · Russellville, AR · Member since 2014 · 688 posts · 509 votes
    3y

    What capital did you start with when you jumped to passive?  I like the idea of it, but I feel like I can stretch my money further with active investing since I don't have that much to spare.  Is that my inexperience talking?

  • Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 114 posts · 163 votes
    3y

    @Billy Daniel. Yes, you can definitely stretch your dollars further if you are limited on cash. I used a number of different sources when I first started passive investing. First, I used money from an old 401k that I transferred into a Self Directed IRA. That was money that was already sitting in the stock market, and it gave me a bucket to pull from to get started. My thought was that it was somewhat "fun money" because it was just sitting in mutual funds getting eaten alive by fees. Second, I was in a great W-2 job with big quarterly bonuses so I could move those bonuses into individual passive investments each time I received them. Sure, you might be limited to one or two deals a year if you are cash flowing them, but they will grow very quickly once you start to see the snowball effect of your monthly/quarterly returns combined with your deals that start to go full cycle. Lastly, I ended up selling all of my single family homes as well and took that capital and placed it in multiple deals across various asset classes, operators, and geographic regions. Now, I'm looking at the equity I have in my house as well. If my monthly/quarter distributions can cover the monthly cost of the heloc, it might make sense for me to leverage some of that too. Bottom line: At the time, I had more money than time, so it was/is a great place to hold my capital. Now, I have more time on my hands, and I'm starting to get involved again on the active side while watching my passive income grow and grow.

  • West Chester , PA · Member since 2017 · 104 posts · 19 votes
    3y

    @Randy Smith

    I feel like I am in the same place you were. I have paved the way with SFRs and STRs, but I am realizing too that the passion is not there.

    I have capital and am ready to turn the page.

    Can you walk through a bit HOW you went down this road? What steps did you take? Were your goals? What did you do exactly to open these doors?

    I feel like I’m walking into the complete unknown when it comes to passive investing.

  • Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 114 posts · 163 votes
    3y

    @Vincent Plant.  Boy, that's a big question, and likely too much to put here in one post.

    Ultimately, here are the high level steps you'll want to go through in order to move forward with passive investing:

    1.  Understand what you want to accomplish with your investing.  Wealth generation, monthly cash flow, time freedom, etc.

    2.  Research and pick an asset class and business model that can help you reach those goals

    3.  Research and pick a geography where you want to invest in order to achieve your goals

    4.  Find an expert operator in the asset class and region from above

    5. Decide which offering you want to invest in from the operator you found above

    You can also choose to invest in a great operator that uses the fund model to diversify your investment across multiple assets and geographies.

    I love talking about this stuff, so feel free to DM me and we can hop on a call as well.

  • Rental Property Investor · Northern NJ · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 677 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Vincent Plant:

    @Randy Smith

    I feel like I am in the same place you were. I have paved the way with SFRs and STRs, but I am realizing too that the passion is not there.

    I have capital and am ready to turn the page.

    Can you walk through a bit HOW you went down this road? What steps did you take? Were your goals? What did you do exactly to open these doors?

    I feel like I’m walking into the complete unknown when it comes to passive investing.


    https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

    I started investing passively last year and while I love it, I still want to invest actively for the foreseeable future. I could see myself switching down rhe road to make passive investments.

  • Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2018 · 40 posts · 29 votes
    3y

    Big reason why W2 earners don’t want to be passive is for REPS tax benefit which is a huge benefit. If not for that then of course passive all the way.

  • Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Randy Smith:
    Quote from @Sean Willette:

    Hi Randy, are you currently investing in your backyard? My brother and I are just breaking into multifamily investing and are trying to pick a market. We live in California, but not interested in investing out here for obvious reasons. Our goal is to research 3 different markets and target one of the 3. That way we can hyper focus on that one market. Anyways, long story long AZ is one of the markets on our list. Once we find our market the goal is to build a team and start evaluating and underwriting deals in that area. Just curious what markets you’re currently investing in or plan on investing in? Appreciate any feedback 🙏🏻

     @Sean Willette I invest in Phoenix (my backyard), Tucson, TN, and other various states through multiple funds I invest with (Open Door Capital, Ashcroft, Spartan Investment Group etc.  I'm always looking to partner and help in any way in this space.

    @Randy Smith: Is that Opendoor Capital or do you mean Opendoor Technologies? I can 't find a Ticker Symbol for Opendoor Capital

  • Rental Property Investor · Northern NJ · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 677 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Randy Smith:
    Quote from @Sean Willette:

    Hi Randy, are you currently investing in your backyard? My brother and I are just breaking into multifamily investing and are trying to pick a market. We live in California, but not interested in investing out here for obvious reasons. Our goal is to research 3 different markets and target one of the 3. That way we can hyper focus on that one market. Anyways, long story long AZ is one of the markets on our list. Once we find our market the goal is to build a team and start evaluating and underwriting deals in that area. Just curious what markets you’re currently investing in or plan on investing in? Appreciate any feedback 🙏🏻

     @Sean Willette I invest in Phoenix (my backyard), Tucson, TN, and other various states through multiple funds I invest with (Open Door Capital, Ashcroft, Spartan Investment Group etc.  I'm always looking to partner and help in any way in this space.

    @Randy Smith: Is that Opendoor Capital or do you mean Opendoor Technologies? I can 't find a Ticker Symbol for Opendoor Capital


     He's talking about Brandon Turners company, ODC. https://odcfund.com/

    He's not talking about investing in companies on the stock market but ones that are usually open to accredited investors only. Another reason to click on that link I posted and listen to that BP Money episode. It will answer most of your questions.

  • Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 114 posts · 163 votes
    3y

    @Account Closed

    @Sean Willette

    Yes, I was referencing odcfund.com, but it's also important to note that you can still invest passively if you are not accredited ($200,000/year single or $300,000/year married or $1MM in net worth excluding your home).  There are plenty of deals out there that are 506B which accept sophisticated investors with as little as $25,000.

    Many of your larger syndicators only accept accredited investors because they want to have the ability to advertise their deals to the general public.  506B deals can not be advertised so they can be a little harder to find, but you'll be able to find plenty of them if you start networking in the space. Of my 18 LP positions, only 5 of them are 506C (for accredited investors only).

    Feel free to reach out if you want to discuss further or in more detail.

  • Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 47 posts · 85 votes
    3y

    @Vincent Plant To start your journey in passive investing, you have to educate yourself before wiring money to these syndicators. Many of us passive investors are burned-out landlords who have a busy W-2 but still want to invest in real estate. Read Brian Burke's book, The Hands Off Investor. Learn about syndicators/sponsors by listening to them on podcasts that cater to passive investors like The Passive Wealth Strategy Show or Passive Investing from Left Field. To really accelerate your journey, join a community that will educate you about passive investing and will enable you to network with passive investors. I'll DM you a link.
     

  • Rental Property Investor · Temple, TX · Member since 2021 · 15 posts · 14 votes
    3y

    All great points, Randy. Your goals will determine what investment vehicle is right for you. I personally started with SFH LTR, then realized that multifamily is a great way to scale quickly while reducing risk. I then transitioned into my first MF syndication as an LP and now building a general partnership team to actively invest in my own deals. Good luck and I hope you're still able to find good deals in the near future!

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    It sounds to me like this is more for people that have great W-2 jobs.

  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    3y

    I do both active RE purchases and syndications as LP.  

    The active RE purchases are all value adds, mostly BRRRS and I typically achieve the infinite return from invested amount after the refi.  You will never achieve this level of return with a syndication.  But the work of this route is in a different league than being an LP.  Work to acquire property, work of the value add, work involved with the refi, work involved in the ongoing mgmt of the property as either the asset manager (using a PM) or the PM.  

    Contrast this with basically vetting a syndicator or using a syndicator of syndicators that choose the syndications for a portion of the return and can exert much more effort and capital vetting the chosen syndications.  Then sit back and collect a return that over the last decade has been near cannot miss as virtually all syndications met GP profit share threshold and I believe most hit criteria for max GP profit share profit threshold.  This route looks better the older and more financially independent I become

    My concern is the syndicators are impacted by the rate increases like virtually all REI. I suspect that some syndicators will be loosing investor money (virtually unheard of in last 10 years). It is more important to screen the syndicator thoroughly (or use syndicator of syndicators) than any recent time. I recently received an offering from a syndicator that had only 2 completed syndications of small projects but was offering a syndication of multiple projects many of which was larger than either completed syndication. One of the GPs is a famous realtor (is featured in a tv series). The offering looked to me like it was created to reduce the GPs' risk.

    Do your research.  Make sure they have the experience that demonstrates they can succeed on the syndicated project.  Make sure their pro forma is conservative and includes increased cap rates. 

    Investing in syndications may be quite passive, but it is not without risk.  There is a reason the rules require an accredited investor, a sophisticated investor, or existing relationship to join these mostly unregulated syndications.  

    Good luck

  • Paul MoorePro Member
    Commercial Real Estate Fund Manager · Lynchburg, VA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    Hi @Randy Smith! Thank you for posting this! Your experience is almost identical to hundreds of investors I've spoken with. I've spoken to very few who have successfully managed active real estate investments, especially if they have a high paying career or retirement. I wish I could take your post and copy it to hundreds of other forums about investing on the side. 

    Can you imagine Michael Phelps training part time for the Olympics while he had a job? Can you imagine Taylor Swift being a part time singer while holding a server job? It makes no sense and I marvel at how people pull it off. I admit some people do pull it off but I don't see how they do it part time. And I doubt they are making as much profit as they planned or having the lifestyle they hope for. 

    To those like @Vincent Plant looking to go down this path I highly recommend @Brian Burke's book The Hands-Off Investor for due diligence and @Jim Pfeifer's Left Field Investors to connect with a community of like-minded people plus education. Good luck and happy investing!

  • Rob LohbeckPro Member
    Real Estate Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2017 · 4 posts · 2 votes
    3y

    Steve or Randy, what kinds of returns have you seen, or been seeing, from your passive syndication deals? The ones I have looked at recently advertise (or project) 15-20% IRR, and getting 100-120% of your initial investment back in 3-5 yrs, when they refi, while still maintaining your equity stake in that property for as long as they own it. So additional cash flow for years. If you reinvested the cash returns into an additional deal every 3-5 years, while also allocating even more additional personal capital each year, the compounded cash flow 10-20 years down the road, once you now have 5,10,15 different investments, looks very solid. I know there are a lot of assumptions made when trying to model returns over a 10-20 year period but just curious if your returns have been close to what you thought they would be. And if this stacking or compounding affect is a valid "strategy".

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Vincent Plant:

    @Randy Smith

    I feel like I am in the same place you were. I have paved the way with SFRs and STRs, but I am realizing too that the passion is not there.

    I have capital and am ready to turn the page.

    Can you walk through a bit HOW you went down this road? What steps did you take? Were your goals? What did you do exactly to open these doors?

    I feel like I’m walking into the complete unknown when it comes to passive investing.


     If you're looking to move into passive investing through syndications, I would highly recommend watching this:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

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