Alternative To Copper Piping For HVAC Units
Does anybody know if anything other than copper can be used for piping for outdoor Heat Pumps/AC units? I just had a tenant move in about a week ago. I had a cage welded and cemented over the outside AC unit on Tuesday. Later that day I got word that thieves came and ripped off the copper piping going from the AC unit up the wall, until it went up into the attic. Good thing the cage was installed that morning, otherwise they would have stolen the whole unit (for the copper coil inside).
One contractor was telling me that in certain circumstances some sort of plastic or metal (galvanized?) piping can be used instead. Does anyone have any info on anything available like this?
I'm having the unit installed on the roof of the house on Saturday, but I have more houses that are waiting for HVAC installs once a new tenant moves in, and I'd like to know all of my options.
Thanks.
Dawn,
You must use copper. It might be worth it to buy some conduit and run the pipe through that and terminate it inside your cage. It wouldn't prevent the theft 100% but it should make it much more difficult hopefully sending them to the neighbors house. If they only have pipe cutters they won't get through the conduit and your copper will be safe. If they bring a recip saw with them it won't stop them though.
-Michael
Thanks Michael. I wound up installing the unit on the roof instead. Because of the substantially shorter length of copper piping needed, that installation wound up costing less than even just the materials would have been to re-install it on the side of the house and encase it in conduit.
Now hopefully they don't steal it off of the roof!
Thanks.
Dawn
While rehabbing our properties we have our crews paint (prime) the copper. One, it makes the copper look like galvanized and two, painted copper is worth significantly less than exposed copper.
If you paint it white it makes it look like PVC from a distance. PVC, obviously, is of no use to a theif.
Those are both great ideas! I will do that on my existing houses where it hasn't been stolen (yet). Right now the copper piping is just wrapped in insulation.
Thanks!
Just remember - thieves are pretty smart......................and the magnet doesn't lie!!!
The paint and PVC tips are great ideas. I've been the victim of copper theft multiple times; I wish I had thought of either solution back then.
Conduit, paint, and wire for security sensor. If wire is cut, or unit lifted, the alarm goes off. Consider wireless and cellular security. This is not expensive. Concealed camera that is motion activated. Signs stating camera monitoring 24/7. Install dummy or nonfunctional camera in plain sight.
Involve the neighbors.
Visit the local LEO station, and ask for tips and ideas. Mention you might buy referrals for completed deals they bring you. The act of LEO visiting property even just to tour it, helps a lot. homesecuritystore.com
#3 Off Topic Contributor
- Investor
- Viera, FL
Dawn,
What you are allowed to do depends on your local building code. Your contractor is the best source of info here as he has to get the permit for whatever he does.
Tim
- Rental Property Investor
- Charlotte NC Fort Mill SC Lake Wylie SC, SC
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I've considered putting the systems up on the roof--just always afraid that a bad install will ruin my roof--just as expensive as a new HVAC! Any others have good success putting their systems up on the roof?
I like the idea of painting the copper. At least it'll deter some of the crackheads who are too lazy to work a little harder.
I heard that they usually get only about $100 for the amount of copper they get out of a condensor. I've thought of putting up a sign that says: "Attention crackheads: Instead of destroyig/stealing my expensive equipment, why don't I just give you $100?" ;)
I close in 2 weeks on my next rental acquisition, and dirtbags stole the entire HVAC system. I can see someone began installing a fence though. There are 4 4x4 posts in concrete ready to receive a 6-8' wooden fence of some sort. I think I'll take advantage of this, installing locked gates for easy access, and reasonably spaced pickets for circulation. Not sure what to do about keeping them from climbing over the fence. I suppose some variation on a roof or something. Open to suggestions. (If anyone's done something like this, I'd LOVE pictures!)
#3 Off Topic Contributor
- Investor
- Viera, FL
Originally posted by Terri Pour-Rastegar:
I've considered putting the systems up on the roof--just always afraid that a bad install will ruin my roof--just as expensive as a new HVAC! Any others have good success putting their systems up on the roof?
Terri, I had an insurance claim where the fools climbed up onto the roof and stole the copper from the units while they were on the roof.
Don't forget that the EPA charges a $30,000 fine to anyone that intentionally releases Freon into the atmosphere. Whoever turns such a person in is eligible for up to $10,000 in reward.
Neighbors might be a little more interested in watching your place if they can get ten grand out of it. There was a maintenance tech at an apartment community up here who got $30,000 from the government because he called them about a pickup carrying stolen A/Cs.
- Rental Property Investor
- Charlotte NC Fort Mill SC Lake Wylie SC, SC
- 103
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Originally posted by Marc Freislinger:
Don't forget that the EPA charges a $30,000 fine to anyone that intentionally releases Freon into the atmosphere. Whoever turns such a person in is eligible for up to $10,000 in reward.
Neighbors might be a little more interested in watching your place if they can get ten grand out of it. There was a maintenance tech at an apartment community up here who got $30,000 from the government because he called them about a pickup carrying stolen A/Cs.
I will DEFINITELY do that! I didn't know they could get a reward. I'll bet most folks don't know about it either. Thanks!!!
I didn't know about the EPA reward either. IF the neighbors actually cared it would probably help the situation immensely, and I'm sure $10,000 would help them "care".
Is there an 800# that is available to give the neighbors so that the skeptics can confirm? Of course the first call should be to the police to catch the lowlife thieves.
Terri - I have started to put the majority of my HVAC systems up on the roof. They are installed on a separate platform that is secured. (Some I even have cages over on the roof.) Haven't had any roof problems yet, but it might be something that will come over time.
I've never had any of the units on the roof stolen (yet). I also remove the units, even from the roof, if the house is vacant. I never used to do that, but after quite a few units were stolen I started.
To keep people from climbing the fence, plant Rosa Rugosa at the base of the fence. It's beautiful and nobody, but nobody, is going through it.
"On February 7, 1997, Assistant Administrator Steven A. Herman authorized payment of awards
ranging from $300 to $10,000 to 20 citizens who provided information or services leading to the
conclusion of cases involving violations of the CFC and asbestos regulations."
From http://www.epa.gov/oecaerth/resources/policies/civil/caa/stationary/citizenaward.pdf
Reports can be made at:
http://www.epa.gov/compliance/complaints/index.html
Apparently, in order for the reward to be paid, the offender must be convicted and the $25,000 penalty paid. I just read up on this, it was discussed a little differently when I got my certification.
This might be a stupid question, but why are you giving central AC in a rental where there are people that would steal your AC unit for the metal? Maybe its just because I'm from the Midwest, but that sounds really hood. If it is in the hood, tell them to get a window unit if they want one.
Hi Jeffrey,
Good question. First off, this is in Birmingham, AL and it's hot and humid there a lot.
The units are heat pump systems that supply both the heating and cooling depending on what season it is. If it was just a matter of A/C, window units would definitely be the way to go, but unfortunately in order to install an alternative way of heating throughout the house other than a central heat pump system is even more expensive.
The preferred power is electric rather than gas (although in my opinion both are ridiculously expensive in Birmingham, but gas even more so). If anyone had a good alternative let me know. I've spoken to quite a few local contractors that I deal with all the time there and they all agreed that there's not really any good (or less expensive) alternatives to a central HVAC system in their area.
You can get infra red game cameras from Cabelas, gander mountain etc etc that are motion activated and snap and save pics or video.
I may try that. However, the local thieves don't seem to care (and neither do the police) if someone sees them. I had a neighbor watch while someone broke right into my house, which was vacant at the time. She "didn't want any trouble" so instead of at least calling the police, she went inside her house!
My FIL owns his own HVAC business, I will ask him if PEX is allowed for such installs. I don't know enough about it to know if it is suitable for that application.
If it is use it! It's cheaper and easier to install and repair if needed.