Emotional Support Animal...that's a Pit Bull Mix
Will GastonPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votesEmotional Support Animal...that's a Pit Bull Mix
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
5yOriginally posted by @Will Gaston:
All:
I've got a well qualified tenant that I would love have...except she has an ESA that happens to be a pit bull mix. I'm fine with the ESA but I think my insurance won't be fine with the dog.
Waiting to hear back from my insurance agent but I'm 99% sure he's going to said it's not allowed.
Any insurance agents or PMs know the ruling on this? @Joe Splitrock any ideas?
The law requires you to make a "reasonable accommodation" to your policy. If your insurance provider threatens to cancel your coverage because of a "dangerous breed" animal, then it is not reasonable for you to accept the animal.
HUD Policy (print and keep!): https://www.hud.gov/sites/dfiles/PA/documents/HUDAsstAnimalNC1-28-2020.pdf
You should also contact your local HUD office to see how they answer this question.
If it were me, I would tell the applicant that my insurance doesn't allow dangerous breeds. If they push back, tell them you'll keep working on it to see what your options are. While you're working on it, find another renter. You're under no obligation to hold it for them while you do your research.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
51 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
My brother had one. IT was older, female, and the sweetest dog you could ask for...until it was not! One day it just decided to bite and locked her jaws. IT was bad, and luckily no one died, but it was horrid. Then the next minute when her mouth was empty she is rubbing against people, and so calm and nice and sweet. But I would never trust her again. My brother just said, 'well something got to her because she is not like that!." But she was like that. The unpredictability is worrisome as well as how hard she could lock her jaws, and not respond to people.
- Rental Property Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 6 votes5y
@Will Gaston regarding the renters insurance. If the tenant has a dog, i always ask to either have them send me a copy of their policy to check or I send them to the same state farm agent i use who can write a renters insurance policy without a breed exclusion.
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Will Gaston:
All:
I've got a well qualified tenant that I would love have...except she has an ESA that happens to be a pit bull mix. I'm fine with the ESA but I think my insurance won't be fine with the dog.
Waiting to hear back from my insurance agent but I'm 99% sure he's going to said it's not allowed.
Any insurance agents or PMs know the ruling on this? @Joe Splitrock any ideas?
Sorry for the late response. My insurance provider does not accept Pit Bull, so I let people know it is a prohibited breed. I can't change insurance carriers because it affects my blanket liability policy. My liability policy is only effective if my insurance company is insuring the property. When I tell people this, they understand.
I would also check the paperwork being provided. Ask for the name / phone number/ email of the medical professional who is treating her. Reach out to them directly to verify they are treating her for a condition and that a Pit Bull is required. Applicants usually provide online certificates, which you are not required to take. I also would make sure the doctor/psychologist puts something in writing stating "(1) Pit Bull" is required for treatment.
Having a disability is not within your control, but the breed of dog you choose to treat such condition is 100% their choice. ESA are prescribed to treat mental disorders, so I question why someone with a mental disorder would intentionally get a breed that they know will cause problems. It speaks to the personality / attitude of the person.
Everyone should keep in mind this is a business decision and has nothing to do with personal feelings about Pit Bull. Most Pit Bull and dogs in general are sweet and loving to their owners. ANY dog can bite when they feel threatened. The difference with Pit Bull is their strength, which gives them ability to do more harm. It is not that Pit Bull bite more often than any other breed, it is that when they do bit, the damage is more serious. It often requires rehabilitation or even plastic surgery, so the dollars associated with the insurance claims are higher.
- Investor · Thousand Oaks, CA · Member since 2017 · 302 posts · 123 votes4yGot two sisters both with Emotional support Cats. Do not want to get sued by other Tenants who claim to be allergic and courts tend to rule against landlords should I refuse to rent to them? or File as an Alergin free Property. Hate cat's smell and the damage they cause to apartments. Too many parasites in apartment-like Toxoplasmosis do not want it. Can I ask them to take cats to the Vet and get them vaccinated first so we don't start spreading the Toxoplasmosis parasite?
- Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
It is not unreasonable to require a cat (or dog) be vaccinated, including for rabies. This applies to ESA animals also. In some cases landlords require only spayed or neutered animals, ESA or not. This is especially true with male cats. Cats require a high protein diet; their urine can have a significant odor and it is worse with an unneutered male cat that sprays to mark territory.
- Investor · Thousand Oaks, CA · Member since 2017 · 302 posts · 123 votes4yThanks, Gail K. after hearing the CDC list Cats as probable spreaders to the 40 million people now infected with the Toxoplasmosis parasite. and knowing it can cause Schizophrenia and brain infections if left untreated just do not want someone with violent Rage Disorders living in our Apartments thinks I'll go through the motions in court to declare the Building Allergen free even if I lost a couple of months rent. then will not have to find plumbers or electricians not allergic to cats. https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/...
- Investor · Rogers, AR · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 27 votes4y
@Scott Mac if the animal is wearing a vest, they are not an ESA, but a service dog. Those are different and are very well trained and mannered.
- Member since 2020 · 671 posts · 937 votes4y
As an apparent bad guy, I'm very thankful that there are so many people that are apparently willing to work with people in this situation. I'd do anything and everything to find a different tenant, so it's great to know that they'll be able to find a place from one of y'all anyway. Makes me twice as quick to say 'no'... errr, I mean, "Sorry, I found a more qualified candidate" when I'm next confronted with something like this.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes4y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Scott Mac if the animal is wearing a vest, they are not an ESA, but a service dog. Those are different and are very well trained and mannered.
Be careful with that. Anyone can buy a vest.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - Investor · Rogers, AR · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 27 votes4y
@Nathan G. Agreed. If the animal is a certified service animal, they will have a letter from an MD (NOT a therapist or counselor) and will have the disability noted for which the animal is needed. The MD who signs the letter will also be in the same state as they rental unit being applied for.
- Member since 2020 · 671 posts · 937 votes4y
@Nathan Gesner and @Account Closed
And, I'm totally guessing here because I honestly don't know, but they probably won't be a pit bull.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes4y
Originally posted by @Chris John:
@Nathan Gesner and @Account Closed
And, I'm totally guessing here because I honestly don't know, but they probably won't be a pit bull.
Unfortunately, you would be wrong. The law allows an emotional support animal to be any common household animal. It does not restrict breed or size.
Another misconception: the animal does not need to be prescribed by a doctor. It can be prescribed by a counselor, psychiatrist, or psychologist. The letter does not need to state why the animal is prescribed because that would be a violation of the patient's privacy. What the letter should state is that the individual is being treated by the provider and that the animal was prescribed to help them with a disability.
You are not allowed to ask what the disability is. There should only be one animal prescribed per disability, so an applicant cannot claim three dogs for their depression. They could have one dog for depression and a second dog for alerting them to oncoming seizures. The letter should also be recent, usually within the last 12 months. I had one applicant attempt to present a letter that was 10 years old and written by a doctor in the Philippines!
this is a very complex law and it is increasingly abused by more and more tenants. Based on my personal experience, I would estimate over 90% of these emotional support animals are unnecessary, just like animals flying on planes. It's easy to get a prescription, just like it's easy to get a prescription for Prozac or Ambien. Because emotional support animals are increasingly common in the law is difficult to navigate, I highly recommend every landlord consider using petscreening.com. The service is free for the landlord. You create an account and then send applicants to your landing page to complete the application process. Is $20 for the first animal, $15 for subsequent animals. They have to enter in details of the animal, vaccine records, pictures, etc If they have a service animal, there is no application fee charged but they do have to provide the prescription letter and other necessary evidence. Pet screening does an excellent job of stopping the fraud. Many fraudulent tenants will not even bother applying because they know they will be screened so it significantly reduces the number of bad applicants.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - Member since 2020 · 671 posts · 937 votes4y
I'm sorry for the confusion. My comment was in regards to @Account Closed 's comment about service dogs and not the emotional support animal conversation. Again, I could be wrong on my guess because although I haven't seen a pit bull service dog yet, that certainly doesn't mean there isn't any... I'd be way more inclined to try to work with a pit service dog over an emotional support dog though.
- Investor · Thousand Oaks, CA · Member since 2017 · 302 posts · 123 votes4yboth of these tenants claim to need their cats as support animals and both bought certificates off the same internet website claiming they need them. id never heard of Support cats just crazy cat ladies. Can I ask for a county animal license like Dog owners would buy?
- Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2017 · 202 posts · 82 votes4y
Check your states landlord/ tenant laws? In California you can not legally deny someone that has an ESA animal. My first tenants had two pit bulls as ESA animals, are insurance was also hesitant but we made the tenants have maximum coverage insurance for the dogs and we had them on our insurance as well. The tenant should have pets insurance, and they should provide it to you so you can show your insurance agent.
- Investor · Reno, NV · Member since 2015 · 69 posts · 48 votes4y
It seems like at least half of the inquiries I get have ESA. That’s one reason why as my properties turn over I’m moving away from self management and handing them over to my property manager. A good property manager knows how to follow the law and still skirt around the thorny issues. For my part I want to provide safe, clean and modern properties that are well maintained, and just want tenants that take care of them and pay rent timely. No BS, no drama and no viscous breeds or nuisance pets.
- Member since 2020 · 69 posts · 49 votes4y
You should have written rules concerning ESA animals. There are several insurance lists of excluded animals and put which animals are excluded. The ESA prescription has to be by someone who has prescription powers and is only good for one year. I require a pet application telling me about the animal and vet letter or records showing everything is up to date on the animal. Most people don’t jump through the requirements or when they realize I’m not a public housing place and don’t have to allow a pit pull or other high bite breed move on. My houses usually rent in a week and these people 9/10 times are the type not to quickly get their act together. The vast majority of these people their ESA doesn’t pass scrutiny when really looked at.
- 4yJustin R.Pro MemberRental Property Investor · San Anselmo · Member since 2015 · 659 posts · 600 votes
@Nathan G. I made a denial under this same pretense that changing insurance companies was not a reasonable accommodation.
I was meet with a letter from the prospective tenants attorney and fair housing within 24 hours. Yes, unfortunately they can expect you to find an insurance carrier that covers pit bulls, which is what I had to do after getting my own legal counsel.
Sad to be said, but landlords hands are tired whenever we are dealing with ES animals.
- Investor · Thousand Oaks, CA · Member since 2017 · 302 posts · 123 votes4yAgree Sam Shueh would have no problem rejecting the Tenant if she did not already have a lease, and she brought in an internet purchased certificate claiming she needed a support Cat 6 months ago. we let her do it and now she wants to move her sister in with another support Cat. so new lease time we told her to fill out a new lease application for her sister and a $400 Rent increase due to this being the third person and now another Cat. I've incorporated the Petscreening.com into the new application process Thanks yo Nathan G. for the Petscreening tip. I also will require annual renewals for support animal screening,
- Member since 2020 · 671 posts · 937 votes4y
Serious question because I'm out in California where a "For Rent" sign will generate 10 leads (forget about what happens when you post something on the Internet). Are these stories of having pit bulls forced upon you because you only get one application or something? Can't you just say something like "we had several qualified applicants and, unfortunately, could only choose one"?
We have one insurance agent for all of our Cali properties and one insurance agent for all of our Florida properties. It's difficult for me to imagine being excited about insurance agent shopping so that one perspective tenant, as a one off, can hug their pit bull whenever they want. It's farcical.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes4y
Originally posted by @Justin R.:
@Nathan G. I made a denial under this same pretense that changing insurance companies was not a reasonable accommodation.
I was meet with a letter from the prospective tenants attorney and fair housing within 24 hours. Yes, unfortunately they can expect you to find an insurance carrier that covers pit bulls, which is what I had to do after getting my own legal counsel.
Sad to be said, but landlords hands are tired whenever we are dealing with ES animals.
There are variables to every story. Generally speaking, receiving a letter doesn't mean you are wrong or that you would lose your case. When you received the letter, did you start to shop around? Do you know how much time you have to shop around and change carriers? I have never seen anything in the law that requires you to complete the switch in three days or even three weeks. So, you start shopping around. In the meantime, you find another renter and move on.
Yes, there's always a risk this applicant will file a complaint and try to sue you, but that's highly unlikely when their real concern is finding a place to live and they tend to be lower-income applicants. Filing a complaint with Fair Housing is free and takes minutes, probably on their smart phone. Very little effort and no money involved. Suing you in court takes a lot of time, filling out documents, paying a filing fee, showing up in court, etc.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes4y
Originally posted by @Justin R.:
@Nathan G. I made a denial under this same pretense that changing insurance companies was not a reasonable accommodation.
I was meet with a letter from the prospective tenants attorney and fair housing within 24 hours. Yes, unfortunately they can expect you to find an insurance carrier that covers pit bulls, which is what I had to do after getting my own legal counsel.
Sad to be said, but landlords hands are tired whenever we are dealing with ES animals.
There was also federal guidance given that if changing insurance was not a good business decision, financially significant, it is an acceptable reason to say no. So if you have one house, yep, you may need to change insurance. But in cases like me, I have several houses and both personal and commercial liability insurances which only work for property if they also cover that property. So, it is NOT reasonable to have to get double liability insurance with different carriers and different carriers for each property based on their animals. So, as an alternative I let them choose to get the liability coverage for their animal that covers me.
Its the same as someone with a wheelchair, if they want to have a ramp into your house, they have to pay for it and pay to remove it and restore the property when they leave. You have to accommodate them, but they pay for the extra cost of the accommodation, including the insurance in the animal case as that is your added cost.
- Realtor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2020 · 73 posts · 72 votes4y
@Will Gaston
My insurance agent said so long as my tenants have HO-4 rental insurance that gives them liability insurance for dogs, that would suffice. Hope this helps!
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.