Tiny home development
Has anyone taken interest in "Tiny Homes", less than 500 sq ft homes.
I've been reading up on these, and it looks like people are building them ground up for less than $15k. Some people are claiming to live here for 10-15 years happily.
In my opinion, it seems like this could be an up and coming trend in real estate.
There are certain areas where property values are very high, and people choose to live in tiny home.
Has anyone considered developing a community of 25-50 tiny homes? Based on my calculations, you could fit 50 tiny homes at 500 sq ft each on a 1 acre plot, with enough room for landscape, sidewalks, etc.
These are the guys who started it all (I believe): http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/
Opinions?
:cool:
Danny
very good post Bill. Thank you for giving me the nuts and bolts of this topic.
Originally posted by @Bill Bockwoldt:
I live just up the road from the Tiny Homes office and demonstration area where they have several models. These were done by Jay Shafer who has http://www.fourlightshouses.com/ and http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/.
This is what we learned on our last visit checking out their models:
1. In Sonoma county (Northern CA), these are considered RV's and can not have permanent utility connections - with the exception of as an assisted living unit where home healthcare workers may visit (so you could put one in your backyard for Grandma if you were taking care of her there and leave the utilities permanently connected). If someone reports you, they will come out and verify you have disconnected the utilities and then come at random intervals to check on you. The office manager told us they have exhausted the market for people who will set up technically "illegal" housing in their back yard.
2. Regulation can be local/county/state specific but generally in CA RV's can't become stationary, and tiny homes are classified as RVs (at least in CA). The minimum sq. ft. for a permanent structure (e.g. granny unit) is 640 sq. ft. in our county. They continue to petition the State of CA to try to get tiny homes reclassified, and no local politician wants to remove the ordinance banning stationary RVs (we all know where that might lead).
3. They said Jay Shafer has sold the Tiny House business to Champion Homes (large producer of manufactured homes) and he now focuses on designing/building structures around 800 sq. ft. (supplied by Champion) because they are considered manufactured homes (e.g. fancier mobile homes). We toured an 840 sq. ft. 2br/1ba home that cost $60k (base) and came in at around $90k as constructed. It had stainless appliances/tile/concrete countertops and was mostly bare wood (aesthetic) or sheetrock, and had a minimalist/vacation home feel to it. It also had a nice front deck bolted on (we were considering something like that for a vacation home on a bare lot near the coast). You can custom-order them with whatever features/configuration/materials you can think up and they prepare a custom quote. The permits run about $9k where we live, and they will level the ground and bring utilities from the lot line to the structure for $15k. The price of the home includes delivery/assembly.
The overwhelming concern, as pointed out by many in this thread, is zoning and costs in your area. They don't make sense in the town where we live, but if you can build them yourself and have raw/cheap land with access to utilities then they might be more interesting as an investment.
Thanks for this info, I had no idea Jay Schaffer sold his business. Says Alot about the beauracy of it all.
@Samantha Ford thank you!
In southern California you would be surprised at how many tiny homes already exist. Our first house was built in 1924 and is only 510 square feet. It's located in Long Beach, CA in a small neighborhood that was originally railway workers' housing--a tiny street with about 20 tiny detached cottages. Most have not added on to the original structure. We loved living there and now we rent it out for $1250/mo. I have clients who are a family of 4 who live in a darling tiny home of about 480 square feet. There are dozens (probably more than 100) in our city mostly from the 1920s.
I'm pretty certain the city would not allow this size home to be built today, which is a shame although it is not an issue because there's no vacant land anyway.
I looked into trying to do something like this for 1200-1500 sqft homes. Just doing the math I thought I get 8 homes per acre. When you lay it out that is tough and then you have zoning and tap fees and building costs. I could not make the numbers work but I love the concept. There is an architect I came across in Washington while researching that has done some cool stuff with smaller houses. He develops what he calls pocket neighborhoods.
This would be a hit in Oregon and Washington!!
I can recommend Jay Shafer's design workshop, which is held around the country. I attended in D.C. last year and got to see Boneyard Studios, a tiny home community there. All of those homes were on wheels and residents have worked around permit issues by vacating them for a certain period of time each year.
Austin has a tiny home community in development for people experiencing homelessness. I'm watching that with interest:
http://mlf.org/community-first/
Overall, I think this trend will continue because more people are seeking to downsize for cost savings, environmental benefits, etc. Reuse of existing small structures -- as @Shari mentions, older places -- is more appealing, at least to me.
I think tiny homes probably work best are in areas where traditional single family homes on regular lots are out of the price range of most people. For example, right now there is a 627 sq. foot house on a 2,000 sq. foot lot in Santa Monica for $729k, which is by far the least expensive home in the city. There's another house in Santa Monica with 540 sq. ft for $1,250,000, which is the third least expensive home in the area. I've been looking for a tiny lot in a prime area that's too small for a traditional home so I can build a tiny house. Personally, I can't really see them as a viable solution to homelessness because around here condos are cheaper than these tiny single family homes.
Bringing this back up, because tiny homes have gotten so much more exposure lately and I wonder what others can add to this topic
This idea is very interesting to me, as well. Micro-apartments are on the rise in San Francisco. From what we’ve seen, the majority of micro-apartment renters are either interns or single individuals that are new to a city but not ready to make a bigger commitment until they are more familiar with where they would like to live. I believe they have the potential to be very popular considering the high average rental price in the city and the fact that 40% of San Franciscans live alone. I think they could be a good option for shorter-term stays, especially with corporate clients who may not spend much time in their living space.
@Bill Bockwoldt @Bill Gulley @Shari Posey @Karen Margrave @Danny Day
What have you learned or earned re: tiny homes since you last contributed to this thread? They seem to be gaining in popularity and to have great investment potential especially in expensive areas. I understand that they come with zoning challenges (as ADUs or RVs). But given the pressures on affordable housing, I think it's only a matter of time until the scales tip in favor of tiny homes. What are your thoughts and experiences? Thanks for chiming in!
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@Ethan Cooke I am in the process of relocating to the Bend, OR area, getting oBut of CA, too many expensive hurdles here. One thing I've noticed there is that there's a variety of imaginative real estate solutions for permanent homes, vacation rentals, RV's, etc. It's a very exciting market.
The clients I mentioned in my previous post above have since sold 480-sq. ft house and moved into a larger home but they got multiple offers on the property when it sold.
I WAS very excited about the prospect of ADUs in Long Beach but the city has placed it's own requirements and completely killed the prospect. In my city, as well as many others, an ADU must have one of the units owner occupied and the lot must be 4500 sq. ft. In fact, the requirement must be on title and run with the property forever! The whole purpose of ADUs was to add housing in urban settings, which isn't going to happen. I think only 2 have been built in the city so far. Long Beach is very restrictive in building--I believe the minimum SFR size is 1000 or 1200 sq. ft. with typical SFR setbacks. The tiny homes that already exist, which date from the early 1900s, are popular for resale because they are less expensive than large (1000+ sq. ft ) homes.
That Community First link above is interesting. I think something like this for all types of homeowners would be fantastic but I just don't see it happening anywhere near me.
Hi everyone, I know this thread is old but has anyone moved forward with this idea? Any success? Would love to hear any updates.
Bump! Thinking about tiny homes as ADU's in a couple markets, curious if anyone's had success bringing them in (wheeled or on foundation), to increase cash flow?
Tiny homes have REALLY become a thing since this topic was started 9 years ago! I'd almost dare say that we've become an industry. There's push for standards to be created, definitions and certainly communities built entire for the the generation of attainable housing. Tiny homes are better than mobile homes, as they're built more like stick built. They are better than RVs, as they are more durable. They can travel fairly well as needed, but most tiny home owners (like myself) just want to set it and forget it BUT know that I can move it if the need arises.
I launched my company back in 2018 as a means to combat the zoning/planning hurdle for tiny homes. We have several of our local jurisdictions willing and ready to work with us, as well as other cities across the nation reaching out for help.
We're looking to establish our FLAGSHIP community here on Colorado's Front Range and are looking to get our crowdfunding campaign rolling! If any of you are interested in dipping your toes in tiny homes, let's chat!