Rehab Addict
Originally posted by @Paul Ewing:
The one I really can't get is Flip or Flop. I can't see how you can call things making $30k in profit on a $600k deal a good business model. The one called Fixer Upper based in Waco seems to be the closest to realistic, but they still have some horrible things discovered in their rehab that a basic inspection should have found. I am not sure if these are overlooked to provide dramatic effect or what.
I stopped watching fixer upper and deleted all episodes from my DVR when they tried to say that putting in 3 gfi outlets was a $800 cost. LOL
Nicole Curtis voice annoys the hell out of me but I don't think her show is any worse than any of the others that are out there. Regarding flip or flop, I like to think that it's somewhat realistic. the times that they only make 30k on a 600k deal is because they ran into a lot of problems. We all know in the real world there are people LOSING money on doing bad deals. When you are doing flips in the volume that they are doing them, you are bound to lay a few eggs.
Nicole Curtis model can work because between acquiring properties from the city for $1 and the money that she is pulling in from HGTV and the connections and pricing she can probably get from contractors for the exposure she provides them means she probably has her costs well under control. And she doesn't make any bones about repurposing stuff. It seems like in the end, her properties come out nice and it seems to be a labour of love for her more than profits.
Originally posted by @Rachel Gill:
James Wise I think her whole thought process is based on restoring as opposed to remodeling. She tries to bring the home back to its original condition. To make $ I can see the point of the vinyl siding, but she seems more focused on the integrity of the home.
I think Nicole should be applauded. I like her and her show. Sure her model is a bit iffy and her work at times questionable, but who isn't guilty of taking shortcuts once and awhile. It's part of being human. Anyway, Nicole does what she does because she's truly passionate about old houses. She actually cries when old homes are torn down. That's pure passion. I equate her to people who rescue dogs. Most have way more dogs than they can handle but do it because the alternative is worse and they truly are passionate. This, to me, is rare. Most of us don't have this level of passion for one thing, or at least it doesn't last once we realize just how difficult the work can be. So I understand why you want to do what she does. It looks exciting. Question is, can you? Do you think you have the same passion and drive? Flipping houses and restoration is really hard stressful work.
Originally posted by @Kurt Kwart:
Originally posted by @Robert Blake:Big difference between "not in it for the money" and "not getting paid on the basis of the sale of the flips".
Not sure what you mean by this? Like inflating numbers? I don't recall seeing any sales figures on her shows.
...
How about the fact that she has lent her name to some training types; if that isn't about money, then tell me what it IS about ...
https://celebliveevent.com/NicoleCurtis/offer2.php
Originally posted by @Steve BabiakHow about the fact that she has lent her name to some training types; if that isn't about money, then tell me what it IS about ...
Wow, gross. That is about money alright
Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
Originally posted by @Kurt Kwart:Originally posted by @Robert Blake:
Big difference between "not in it for the money" and "not getting paid on the basis of the sale of the flips".Not sure what you mean by this? Like inflating numbers? I don't recall seeing any sales figures on her shows.
...
How about the fact that she has lent her name to some training types; if that isn't about money, then tell me what it IS about ...
Forget Nicole Curtis.. Lunch with Ty Pennington?!? Sweet! ;)
Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
Originally posted by @Kurt Kwart:Originally posted by @Robert Blake:
Big difference between "not in it for the money" and "not getting paid on the basis of the sale of the flips".Not sure what you mean by this? Like inflating numbers? I don't recall seeing any sales figures on her shows.
...
How about the fact that she has lent her name to some training types; if that isn't about money, then tell me what it IS about ...
Wow, she really is one of the great philanthropists of our time. Look at how badly her cardboard cutout wants YOU to escape the "rat race" and take control of your life (at least that's what I'm gathering from the not-at-all-ambiguous testimonials...)!
Originally posted by @Paul Ewing:
The one I really can't get is Flip or Flop. I can't see how you can call things making $30k in profit on a $600k deal a good business model. The one called Fixer Upper based in Waco seems to be the closest to realistic, but they still have some horrible things discovered in their rehab that a basic inspection should have found. I am not sure if these are overlooked to provide dramatic effect or what.
My boyfriend & I love picking these shows apart for reasons such as these, lol. I agree with you; I think they already knew about these issues--and then withheld them from the audience until later for TV shock value (i.e. "OMG, look what we found!") Because, c'mon--like you said, how were those things not found during an initial inspection?
Originally posted by @Rachel Gill:
James Wise Agreed! Definitely not a fan of Property Brothers.
Here's my thing about Property Brothers (and some of the other shows, too) that gets me: Why is it that they only ever show the before/after of just the living room & kitchen--but never the bedrooms and baths???
Originally posted by @James Wise:
I just googled Property Ladder after writing my last post.
Kristen Kemp the hose of the show who was also the "real estate expert" who gave the flippers advice that they did or did not take is not even a real estate investor. She's an actress. She used to be on saved by the bell.
lol, you can't take anything at face value on any of these shows.
I remember her on "Saved by the Bell." I've always been under the impression that she started out as an actress & then moved into real estate investing. I guess when the acting gigs dry up, it beats cutting baloney at the local supermarket deli!
Originally posted by @Kurt Kwart:
It is clear Nicole Curtis is passionate about old homes. My wife and I find her show a pleasure to watch as she is fueled this passion. I know she needs to make a living but clearly she is not in it for the money. Here is a shoutout to her fb https://www.facebook.com/nicolecurtisrehabaddict
I was talking with my wife about this thread when we were watching "Rehab Addict". I came to the realization that improvements aren't the core business. The show is the core business and the improvements are a hobby. What is she is doing with houses is what a car enthusiast does finding a 12K beat up old car, spending hours restoring it and 20K and ending up with a nice car with a market value of 25K. The car enthusiast does it for enjoyment of the process, not for the fractional increase in value. The numbers are entirely fictional and different for houses, but I think the concept is similar - and much different than what an investor is looking to do.
I think if there is a profitable business in this space, it would be a general contracting niche generally marketing to owner-occupied with equity(or extra cash) with these houses. I think it would be something you would have to build up slowly and I think giving accurate cost projections and timelines would be the key to success.
Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
Every episode of flip or flop: they buy a house, estimate budget $30-50k, in actuality spend around $80k, putting them dangerously close to ARV per comps, which should yield them no profit or like $10k. Then miraculously they sell the house for $50-150k higher than comps in the area, netting over $100k profit, every episode. Sounds realistic, right?
And then always at the end, his line: "Time to find another house to flip!" LOL
Originally posted by @Jen Kurtz:
@Rachel Gill -Such a great topic, I LOVE rehab addict because I love old homes, architecture, and their charm. But I also always said the same thing- "who is buying the homes from Nicole and how long is she carrying them??" You are not alone in your love for those beautiful old houses :)
It appears that she works on some houses for 6 months or more, with 4 or 5 episodes covering each one--she really takes her time, lol. Always makes me wonder; with that length of time, wouldn't her carrying costs swallow any profits?
I watch flip or flop and it doesn't make sense that these homes sell for $50'000 more than the highest comp and appraise out for the sale
I agree with the sentiments regarding Nicole Curtis. Been in one of her flips and wasn't impressed with the quality - looked way better on TV.
Then there's the financials. One of her first seasons was a nice house on Minnehaha Parkway in Minneapolis. She bought it in August 2009 for $350k. Finally listed it in June 2011 for $850k. It expired 3 months later at $799k. It finally sold in an off-MLS transaction in January 2012 for $610k. It was a tough market about then but to have 2 1/2 years of holding costs, all the rehab on a 4,600 sf house and then overshoot the final sale price by $200k+ sounds like a money loser to me.
Originally posted by @Scott K.:
Aspestos (sp) is also a huge issue. It can be in anything in these older type of homes.
It is "asbestos." The peak for it is more recently than most people realize - the 1970s. In materials as widely used as drywall joint compound up through the middle 1980s.
Originally posted by @Stephen Masek:
Originally posted by @Scott K.:Aspestos (sp) is also a huge issue. It can be in anything in these older type of homes.
It is "asbestos." The peak for it is more recently than most people realize - the 1970s. In materials as widely used as drywall joint compound up through the middle 1980s.
Not here. Though Canada remains {arguably, sadly and ironically} the largest exporter of asbestos in the world, it was restricted in the domestic market in the 1970s
Originally posted by @Vonetta Booker:
Originally posted by @James Wise:I just googled Property Ladder after writing my last post.
Kristen Kemp the hose of the show who was also the "real estate expert" who gave the flippers advice that they did or did not take is not even a real estate investor. She's an actress. She used to be on saved by the bell.
lol, you can't take anything at face value on any of these shows.
I remember her on "Saved by the Bell." I've always been under the impression that she started out as an actress & then moved into real estate investing. I guess when the acting gigs dry up, it beats cutting baloney at the local supermarket deli!
Yes, that is my understanding also. That she had 10 years of REI experience before she was chosen as the host for that show. Of course, how extensive was that experience? Don't know.
Her show, Property Ladder, is the only "rehab" show I've ever seen not EVERY fix/flip was a booming success. In fact, many of them weren't. The biggest part of that show that seemed incredulous to me were the rehab numbers the "first time flippers" came up with before they started. At the time I was watching, I had never even owned a house. But even I knew that replacing a roof, gutting/replacing a kitchen and two bathrooms, PLUS installing hardwood floors for only $18,000 was ridiculous.
Scott McGilvary (sp?) from Income Properties also did modeling and acting when he was in college; however, he and a friend started a buy/hold real estate business when they were both in college and they are still partners in that company. I found his show inspiring, though to take it with a grain of salt, because at the time I was watching it, I was actively on the hunt to buy a duplex and live on one side. I also liked the show because it wasn't exactly the same every single time. He was usually right on with his construction and rent estimates...but then, every once in awhile, there was an unforeseen problem that added to the rehab cost.
As opposed to Love It or List It. I really liked the first few episodes of the show I watched. But by the fourth episode, and I was "fortune telling" almost exactly what would happen. Now it is so rote and boring, I don't even understand how people can regularly watch it. The formula:
1) The owners: one person wants to sell, the other wants to rehab.
2) The RE agent host: Shows them three properties with the first two usually not even close to what the couple wants and then the "magical" third property. And it is always the third one. That both people LOVE...oh it is so perfect, even for the partner that wants the rehab. Of course, after the first property showing the couple has a "serious discussion" for one minute about does he even know what he is doing, that house wasn't at all what they wanted.
3) Design host: Pseudo promises she will get everything done on their wish list, even though its long for the budget (always points this out), and/or will do the best she can. Then, Oh No, calamity. Something that was obvious from Day One is now taking thousands from the budget and she can no longer do items X and Y on the wish list. Couple is upset and has a "serious discussion" for one minute that she doesn't know what she is doing and they are spending all this money to not get what they want. And end up liking the final result
4) Finale: Here is the only sometime surprise. Usually they "love" the house...but every once in awhile they "list" it. I suspect this is a decision made when they decide to be a part of the show anyway.
The other aspects on a lot of these shows, like Property Virgins, that don't make sense are the purchase prices vs. the monthly loan payments. And I love how, if there are repairs a buyer wants, (wave the magic wand)...ta da!...just roll those repair costs into the loan. Because we all know how awesome banks are about that (sarcasm).
#5 All Forums Contributor
- Real Estate Broker
- Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH
- 17,977
- Votes |
- 26,660
- Posts
#5 All Forums Contributor
- Real Estate Broker
- Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH
@Jennifer T. that is the exact plot every single episode of love it or list it. Ha. Spot on.
Just discovered "Rehab Addict" yesterday (we don't have cable), and this thread today. I've only watched a couple of episodes so far.
I'm with you, Rachel, we're slowly restoring a 100 year old house, and I want to preserve its character as much as possible. I agree with others - I noticed Nicole hasn't replaced any windows, which may have been a good idea, but as was mentioned a couple of pages ago on this thread by @Jason Stone , the historic windows may not necessarily be so leaky. We're going to have to replace some of our windows, they are too far gone. I really want to avoid vinyl to preserve the character of the house - still shopping for something that looks good, is energy star, but isn't too expensive (=still suitable for a rental). The best we've found so far is $700 per window installed, but I think we might be able to do better. This house is now an "A" property with "A" tenants.
Like Nicole, I like to restore and recycle as much as possible. I love how she made a vanity out of an old desk. But I'm not a purist like Nicole. We've scraped and painted the exterior cedar, but also put aluminum cladding over the exterior window trim that was in bad shape. We put in new kitchen cabinets with Corian countertops from craigslist, the granite fad has made them slightly out of style, but they're so great for rentals, and inexpensive. We do like using reclaimed lumber. The hardwood floors we installed are entirely reclaimed. And we buy 100 year old solid interior doors from the ReStore or from Craigslist. They cost less than the new fakie molded MDF doors and look so much better.
Because we do our rehabbing in a buy and hold rental situation, we take on projects that we can accomplish in a week or so, during tenant turnover when the budget allows.