Anyone Know Good Property Managers In NE Ohio (Akron/Canton Area)

[Hunter Shaw]

Hello!  New to the forums so hope I'm in the right place.. So I currently have 2 properties, one 5 unit, and one 12 unit- These are currently managed but the rate is 17% gross which is killing my returns. I am curious if anyone here knows a good management company in this area, OR if can enlighten me on how to negotiate this figure with the management co. 

Thanks!

[James Masotti]

@Ben Leybovich - I know it's a ways away from Lima, but any suggestions for @Hunter Shaw? Seems like connecting with James Wise or Matt Motil could be a good bet as well

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @Hunter Shaw:

Hello!  New to the forums so hope I'm in the right place.. So I currently have 2 properties, one 5 unit, and one 12 unit- These are currently managed but the rate is 17% gross which is killing my returns. I am curious if anyone here knows a good management company in this area, OR if can enlighten me on how to negotiate this figure with the management co. 

Thanks!

The 1st thing we should do is see if your fee structure is reasonable for the market. What is the current fee structure as well as the average rent per unit?

[James Galla]

Check out IIP-Management. I'd be careful with Holton-Wise - they appear to charge a hefty fee for turnover that will destroy your return. Maybe they are viable with higher-grade properties with larger margins.

Also look too Twin Oaks Really.

[Hunter Shaw]

Fee structure is a gross 17% of rents. No additional charge for vacancies, set outs, and they do not take first/last month or anything. They charge 10% on repairs/maintenance I believe. Then act as realtor when I buy/sell buildings. 

Average Rents on 5 unit: $520 - $530 range
Average Rents on 12: Went through some rehab but I believe between $480-490 per unit


Hunter


Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Hunter Shaw:

Hello!  New to the forums so hope I'm in the right place.. So I currently have 2 properties, one 5 unit, and one 12 unit- These are currently managed but the rate is 17% gross which is killing my returns. I am curious if anyone here knows a good management company in this area, OR if can enlighten me on how to negotiate this figure with the management co. 

Thanks!

The 1st thing we should do is see if your fee structure is reasonable for the market. What is the current fee structure as well as the average rent per unit?

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @James Galla:

Check out IIP-Management. I'd be careful with Holton-Wise - they appear to charge a hefty fee for turnover that will destroy your return. Maybe they are viable with higher-grade properties with larger margins.

Also look too Twin Oaks Really.

Fellow Investors when you are reading information on these forums make sure you verify the source of the information you are reading when you're digesting all of it. 

James Galla I've got to say you've got some stones making a claim like that with no real basis for the claim. You are not a current or former client of Holton-Wise. In fact I did a search through our records and I wasn't able to find any communication between you & us at all.

Beyond that, are you actually qualified to determine what is good & bad construction pricing? Do you have extensive experience in the trades? A long history of renovating properties? If so i'd love to hear about it because the impression I gathered from what you've put out here on BiggerPockets is that you are currently a student who has yet to start his investment career. To clarify you do not own rental properties nor have you hired a general contractor to renovate any properties. Is this accurate or am I out of line with this assumption? 

Note that there is nothing wrong with being new, we've all got to start somewhere but let's not talk beyond our level of experience. As someone who runs a portfolio of rental properties valued over $50M+ as well as a General Contracting company that will do well over $3M in renovation sales this year i've got to say a guy in your position doesn't yet know what he doesn't know. The construction trades are a very tough and competitive business. I have put out several line by line bids of my company's work on many of our property offerings, YouTube videos and right here in the BiggerPockets forums.

I have never shy'd away from sharing that information. Why? Because I know that our prices are right where they need to be given the quality of work, reliability and professionalism that a company like ours provides. You cannot find a legitimate, licensed general contracting company like ours that has pricing that isn't right in line with our pricing. I know this because we regularly price shop and compare with our competition. 

Now if you want to compare the prices of Holton-Wise to some schmuck that's got his cellphone number posted all over craigslist who's working for cash under the table out of his Toyota Camry knock yourself out. We sure aren't going to price match someone like that. But you need to ask yourself, is it worth it? Am I really going to save money by going with a guy like this? Will he actually do what he says he will 100% of the time? 50% of the time? What is his background? What does he have to loose if he rips me off for my deposit? The Toyota Camry sure isn't worth much.

Anyone who's been in this business long enough will tell you that good reliable General Contractors are the hardest thing to find and keep in your Rolodex. If a General Contractor is good at what he does he's got more work than he'd ever want to deal with. Quality General Contractors are in short supply, especially in the Cleveland market. The out of state folks can attest to this! 

So if mr. Toyota Camry is such a good bargain why hasn't he been able to build a legitimate business yet? Why is he still working under the table out of a Toyota Camry when company's like mine have a fleet of vehicles? Surely with the market demand and the fact that his pricing is so much lower he'd be booked up for months on end. Yet he's always able to start work in the next day or two....It's obvious to experienced investors why that is. Perhaps one day you'll get there as well, but you sure aren't there yet.

For everyone else who is reading this I want to leave you with this final thought. 

Everyone wants their General Contractor to do 3 things for them.

1. Quality work.
2. Fast work.
3. Cheap work.

A good General Contractor will give you one of the three. 

A great General Contractor will give you two of the three. 

No General Contractor will give you all three.

[James Galla]

Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @James Galla:

Check out IIP-Management. I'd be careful with Holton-Wise - they appear to charge a hefty fee for turnover that will destroy your return. Maybe they are viable with higher-grade properties with larger margins.

Also look too Twin Oaks Really.

Fellow Investors when you are reading information on these forums make sure you verify the source of the information you are reading when you're digesting all of it. 

James Galla I've got to say you've got some stones making a claim like that with no real basis for the claim. You are not a current or former client of Holton-Wise. In fact I did a search through our records and I wasn't able to find any communication between you & us at all.

Beyond that, are you actually qualified to determine what is good & bad construction pricing? Do you have extensive experience in the trades? A long history of renovating properties? If so i'd love to hear about it because the impression I gathered from what you've put out here on BiggerPockets is that you are currently a student who has yet to start his investment career. To clarify you do not own rental properties nor have you hired a general contractor to renovate any properties. Is this accurate or am I out of line with this assumption? 

Note that there is nothing wrong with being new, we've all got to start somewhere but let's not talk beyond our level of experience. As someone who runs a portfolio of rental properties valued over $50M+ as well as a General Contracting company that will do well over $3M in renovation sales this year i've got to say a guy in your position doesn't yet know what he doesn't know. The construction trades are a very tough and competitive business. I have put out several line by line bids of my company's work on many of our property offerings, YouTube videos and right here in the BiggerPockets forums.

I have never shy'd away from sharing that information. Why? Because I know that our prices are right where they need to be given the quality of work, reliability and professionalism that a company like ours provides. You cannot find a legitimate, licensed general contracting company like ours that has pricing that isn't right in line with our pricing. I know this because we regularly price shop and compare with our competition. 

Now if you want to compare the prices of Holton-Wise to some schmuck that's got his cellphone number posted all over craigslist who's working for cash under the table out of his Toyota Camry knock yourself out. We sure aren't going to price match someone like that. But you need to ask yourself, is it worth it? Am I really going to save money by going with a guy like this? Will he actually do what he says he will 100% of the time? 50% of the time? What is his background? What does he have to loose if he rips me off for my deposit? The Toyota Camry sure isn't worth much.

Anyone who's been in this business long enough will tell you that good reliable General Contractors are the hardest thing to find and keep in your Rolodex. If a General Contractor is good at what he does he's got more work than he'd ever want to deal with. Quality General Contractors are in short supply, especially in the Cleveland market. The out of state folks can attest to this! 

So if mr. Toyota Camry is such a good bargain why hasn't he been able to build a legitimate business yet? Why is he still working under the table out of a Toyota Camry when company's like mine have a fleet of vehicles? Surely with the market demand and the fact that his pricing is so much lower he'd be booked up for months on end. Yet he's always able to start work in the next day or two....It's obvious to experienced investors why that is. Perhaps one day you'll get there as well, but you sure aren't there yet.

For everyone else who is reading this I want to leave you with this final thought. 

Everyone wants their General Contractor to do 3 things for them.

1. Quality work.
2. Fast work.
3. Cheap work.

A good General Contractor will give you one of the three. 

A great General Contractor will give you two of the three. 

No General Contractor will give you all three.

As to my experience, I may not have updated my information, but I do own multiple properties, I have hired contractors, and I have done renovations myself. I think this information is beside the point since my understanding is based on a prior thread offering customer complaints that cite your bills. Specifically, the turnover costs shown were irreconcilable with any real estate investment model within his price range. Consequently, I wouldn't discount you for higher grade properties. From what I've seen, your photos and videos demonstrate a higher quality of work and care.