Please help $41,000 paid to a guru company to be refunded !

459 Replies

Originally posted by @Barbara G. :

I hope Debbie you call the CC companies TODAY and ask where they are with your claim.  Are they holding your bills in dispute?  I certainy hope they have agreed to do that.  That is the Next step and we all want to know how that works out.  We want to see some positive results.  Please let us know where 14 pages of this concern on all BP's part is ending up.  We hope you are successful so you can go on to your first real estate deal/purchase.

There is no point in badgering the card companies, after obtaining confirmation of her complaint.  Under Regulation E, § 205.11(c)(3)(ii), the card company has up to 90 days to conclude their investigation, during which time the amount under dispute is put in abeyance (she must still pay at least the minimum amount due on undisputed charges).

For Visa and MasterCard, Debbie has 120 days from the time she became aware of the problem to file a charge-back.  For American Express, she must file within three months of the transaction appearing on the statement.  Those are the rules, governed by Regulation E.

If Debbie believes that the card issuer hasn't followed its own rules when handling her chargeback, she may take her case to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) for a second opinion.  She also has six months after her final correspondence with the card issuer to make a further complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Those are the facts.

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :

@Lew Payne

  did I read this right he is a congress man ?  

I think the operative description is "was" a congressman, back in 2006 or such (I forget).  It should come as no surprise why his term ended prematurely.

@Lew Payne Given that CC company still have not sent out the letter to the merchant, once the letter received by merchant, they have 45-60 days to resolve.

I am searching for a lawyer now, but not sure what  should I do now? wait for the result from the CC or go ahead and use a lawyer?

Appreciate your kindness to refer me your lawyer, but I don't think i have more money to burn unless they willing to do a pro bono work?

This post has been removed.

Originally posted by @Debbie Lee :

@Lew Payne Given that CC company still have not sent out the letter to the merchant, once the letter received by merchant, they have 45-60 days to resolve.

I am searching for a lawyer now, but not sure what  should I do now? wait for the result from the CC or go ahead and use a lawyer?

Appreciate your kindness to refer me your lawyer, but I don't think i have more money to burn unless they willing to do a pro bono work?

Given that the statute of limitations for filing an action sounding in tort is at least one year, if not more, I would wait for the credit card company results.  If, in the future, you want to talk with (as in free consultation) with my Utah attorney, I'd be happy to refer you.

I think I need to get better prepared if all complaints failed. 

Does anyone know how to find a trustworthy pro bono work? I think when most of the results back from complaints I will know to go ahead with a lawyer or not ...( I don't keep a high hope here on getting money back as a online attorney who answered their company deal with cases like this and chances are slim and a lot of money involved too ) 

A Lady went to the same journey with me paid $30 got her $23k back based on her health reason , she did all the negotiation direct with the company and the sickness reason from start that did not take long for her to get her money back.

To be honest, I am so overwhelming ( head spinning) for many days with many suggestions and so many of them  I am just lost!  Account Closed I appreciate all your suggestion , It all sounds very good. but if suggestion does not click with me I just can't implement on that , hope you understand .

As far as my health goes, it does affect me hugely on so many ways, it started when I was dumped from the moment that I did not get any help. I did mention to the big shark when he called to intimidate ,now I think back I am so dumb not to include my doctor's paper to all my complaints.

Maybe is not too late! Tomorrow I am flying to my Doctor for the paper and fax to everyone ! 

For sure if I am going ahead with the lawyer the doctor paper will certainly attach to it! 

( A lady PM me this is how she get her money back ) 

Wow! I'm so sorry about that Debbie. I was so close of falling victim to this as well for $47,000. The only reason why I didn't because there is absolutely no way I could get that type of money in time they wanted. Best of luck to you! I hope you get all your money back!

Here is what I think that I would do:

Take a day to lick your wounds—you’re allowed. $41,000 is no small amount of money.

Day 2—it’s time to LICK them—to the extent that you can.

  • 1)First, assess if you are simply jittery and jumping the gun. Sometimes nerves will cause the other person to give back a similar vibe. If you’re sure that you’ve been scammed, proceed.
  • 2)Next, read the paperwork that you have with the guru to see if and how they may have breached the agreement. You just never know. If you asked for your money back within the first three days, send your reminder request Certified Mail-Return Receipt Requested to notify them gently that you will not go away easily.
  • 3)Then, decide if you are up for the challenge of attempting to either getting your $41,000 back or causing at least $420,000+ in damages to them. Read on if you choose to proceed.
  • 4)List the facts of your story. Tell who, what, where, when, how, how much; list dates, times, direct quotes, and include copies of all communications—including emails, phone calls, faxes, etc. If you had a 3rd party listening to the conversations—note that.
  • 5)Now that you have the facts of your case, write a compelling story telling your opinion of how things happened. The strongest stories employ pathos, logos and ethos techniques. Write your story in simple straight-line logic using exact chronological order. Pull some emotional strings. Use the phrases: In my opinion… or In my experience… or I felt that…. During your story, pull the reader in by asking questions like: While 20-20 hindsight is easy now, can you see how my inexperienced self was excited to listen to their easy promises and the impressive testimonials of others? Do not over-ask—just 2 or 3 questions will do it.
  • 6)Next, cull your story so that you have a long version and a short version.
  • 7)Get referrals of attorneys who have the KIND of experience that you need. Then hire one. Hire the attorney ONLY to review and edit your letters so that you are not committing a libelous act.
  • 8)Rewrite your story as a human-interest story and connect it to some timely current event. Then send your letter to all of the newspaper, television and social media outlets. They love to tell a good story while helping the public at the same time. Make a comprehensive list—Include financial outlets and others like Dateline NBC, CBS 60 Minutes, the national morning talk shows.
  • 9)Contact the Attorneys General in your state and theirs. Surely, you are not the first victim. File a formal complaint there.
  • 10)File a formal complaint at your AND their Better Business Bureau.
  • 11)If the postal service was used, seek how you may file charges if you suspect fraud.
  • 12)Google your guru’s name, all of the associates with whom you spoke, and the guru’s business name. Create a list of every website where they appear.
  • 13)Then you need to be everywhere they appear. copy/paste your compelling story. First share on websites where they recruit others so that you warn any other potential victims and post to the forums of those websites. In addition to the professional social media websites where they appear, be sure to post daily or weekly on these:

Complaints.com

YELP.com

Craigslist

Facebook – Befriend everyone on the their website, if possible. Then send private IM’s. After you have included everyone that you want to contact, post daily or weekly on their Facebook page and yours. Tell your opinion of what underhanded methods were used and how it led you to trust them.

YouTube – Use your computer to create a series of ten 90-second videos using their name as part of the title of the video. “How I Lost $41,000 to ABC Company” or “ABC Company-Give Me My Money Back.” “ABC Guru-Please Return My Life Savings”. Use social media to speak directly to the guru and tell him how this has affected you, your family, your trust and your future. He may not be listening to you, but millions of others just might.

Hopefully, you will get their attention and it will be easier to give your money back than keep taking the hits. If not, you’ll cost them lots of money by informing others before they become the next victim.

I am not a lawyer and I don’t give legal advice. Check with your local, state and federal laws to be sure that my suggestions above are safe and legal for you to use. Just be careful not to complicate things by breaking the law yourself by creating a libelous or some other illegal act.

Good Luck,

Sheila Ecung, Manager

Ecung Investment Group LLC

This post has been removed.

Marvin as I said before this sounds good but I am having trouble following it and Debbie also says she is having difficulty understanding what you are proposing/

You say:

"Dispute the payments to the CC company on annualcreditreport.com."

(what does Debbie write/say to the annualcreditreport.com.)

then you write "When the dispute is presented to the credit reporting agencies, its a 30-45 day resolution at no cost to the consumer. Not a year or 18 months, and/or being shuffled around. The only difference in a dispute of a negative result and a positive result when the dispute is based in fraudulent activity is:

If its a negative result the disputer has the burden of proof;

If it is a positive result where the disputer is disputing paying a debt that has fraudulent undertones, the burden falls on the collector that the debt is legal and legally obtained."

So are you saying that Debbie should just be discussing payments that the CC company has already paid to the GURU company???

Then you write :  "The credit reporting agencies will force an answer in 30-45 days on disputes from who is collecting the consumer's money."

So walk Debbie thru this!!

The CC companies know that these GURU people are Scamming people and have know it for years so why are they letting these companies continue this practice and work as their collection companies??  Debbie signed on In January or Feb so you are saying that the GURU has already been paid by the CC company.


This post has been removed.

Account Closed Pay attention.  When you dispute a debt reported on your credit report, and get it removed.....it only removes Mention of that debt from your credit report, along with the negative credit score impact from it.  It does NOT eliminate the actual debt you have, and doesn't prevent the creditor from collecting.  This is a pretty clear distinction, but you seemed to have missed it.  And of course at this point she doesn't have a debt with the guru company, but with her credit card co.

OK Marvin

so #1.

"Barbara. She files for 3 free annual credit reports thru annualcreditreport.com."

OK she goes onto the "annualcreditreport.com"

and she writes "I want 3 free anual redit reports"???

Does she list the companies names??

Now if Debbie wants to try this that is the first thing she does.   Is this correct?
OK lets see if she wants to do it if and if she needs your help to do this first step.

AND if she does it we will go onto step #2

So this approach is now up to Debbie.  Well it souds good and can't hurt.

Lets hear what Debbie wants to do.

Originally posted by @Wayne Brooks :

Account Closed Pay attention.  When you dispute a debt reported on your credit report, and get it removed.....it only removes Mention of that debt from your credit report, along with the negative credit score impact from it.  It does NOT eliminate the actual debt you have, and doesn't prevent the creditor from collecting.  This is a pretty clear distinction, but you seemed to have missed it.  And of course at this point she doesn't have a debt with the guru company, but with her credit card co.

 I think, If I go ahead and dispute through credit report company I have a lot of uncertainty down the track.

#1. Like what Wayne Brooks said above, I might still ending up to pay my CC company.

#2. To call any of the credit beau company its like calling the hell, I did not have any luck in the past. Even if I got through they tend to ask you to call around UNTIL YOU ARE TOTALLY LOST AND NO ONE CAN HELP YOU !! So if I initiate a dispute through them, I just can see A BIG MESS I have done to myself, as I do not have a clear understanding how everything worked and linked to each other, if I have a lawyer or someone holding my hand, then is a different story.

#3. What happen to my credit score afterwards? there are just so much unknown. If there is some information marked on my report and no one knows how to remove or edit, it will effect so many ways in my report. A clearly example of what happen to us in the last 2 years, as I have just my green card approved, so I have a SSN. I have been trying just to UPDATE my SSN to Experian so we can refinance our mortgage, it end up was an impossible mission ! Many times I got through to Experian, but they want me to call my bank, bank say call them.... what the hell !! I was lost and we are now still paying 6.5% on our home mortgage.

Going dispute by a Pro bono will be my next step.

This post has been removed.

ok @Shiela Ecung

Where and how does Debbie do this?  You say she should Write the  following:

"How I Lost $41,000 to ABC Company” or “ABC Company-Give Me My Money Back.” “ABC Guru-Please Return My Life Savings”. Use social media to speak directly to the guru and tell him how this has affected you, your family, your trust and your future. He may not be listening to you, but millions of others just might.?"

Where does Debbie do this? What is the short version of her story that you can give her so she can "cut and paste it" and put it where?  Should she  put it first  on her facebook page??
She can certainly  ask every one on this blog to copy it onto their social media sites?

The question is does Debbie want to do this?   She is very stressed so unless you can help her with that short Version of how "Mr Guru made my money disapear" so she can cut and past it on facebook she will NOT be able to do it.  I think many of us are ready to copy it onto our sites.  

This post has been removed.

@Wayne Brooks

I have been following Marvins replys and was waiting for someone to pop on and explain that what Marvin is talking about is disputing a bad credit mark.. Not getting a charge cancelled or reversed.. but @Barbara G. Is on it.. Debbie should hire her .. and forget a lawyer ..:)  and Marvin should stick to giving advise about fixing a credit report not how do you reverse a charge  :)  Since that is all he is talking about and it confused Barbara and led her down a rabbit hole .... LOL  sheesh.. BP what will all these folks think of next.. 

@Jay Hinrichs

 The concept that Account Closed is trying to articulate is really quite simple.  Please see my illustration below -- a picture really is a thousand words -- this should clear up any confusion right away!

This post has been removed.

Originally posted by @Barbara G. :

ok @Shiela Ecung

Where and how does Debbie do this?  You say she should Write the  following:

"How I Lost $41,000 to ABC Company” or “ABC Company-Give Me My Money Back.” “ABC Guru-Please Return My Life Savings”. Use social media to speak directly to the guru and tell him how this has affected you, your family, your trust and your future. He may not be listening to you, but millions of others just might.?"

Where does Debbie do this? What is the short version of her story that you can give her so she can "cut and paste it" and put it where?  Should she  put it first  on her facebook page??
She can certainly  ask every one on this blog to copy it onto their social media sites?

The question is does Debbie want to do this?   She is very stressed so unless you can help her with that short Version of how "Mr Guru made my money disapear" so she can cut and past it on facebook she will NOT be able to do it.  I think many of us are ready to copy it onto our sites.  

 Barbara,

1) I don't see Debbie as a helpless woman who can only pursue these actions with my help. She is an investor who has made a decision that she regrets and is seeking our suggestions on ways to mitigate her damages--I don't see weakness there.

2) In my original post, I listed some of the websites that I thought would be effective so that is "where" Debbie can start.  

3) I cannot provide a story for Debbie.  As stressed as she may be, only Debbie can gather the details of her story and write her version of events-long or short.  It may be stressful, but it may also be cathartic and productive for her to process in this way.

4) There is no step-by-step, you-have-to-do-it-like-this way process.  There are lots of different avenues of success to pursue a social media campaign.  Debbie can decide what to do, where to do it, and undertake what is most effective for her at that time.

5) As I stated in the first part of the post, deciding to pursue my suggestions comes after taking the time to lick her wounds.

6) I do agree that we stand ready to receive her story and pass it on to our spheres of influence.

Aside from your comments, Barbara, I do believe if Debbie paid via credit card, she has the right to dispute the charges successfully--which may be the most expedient route to take.

Thanks for caring,

Sheila Ecung

Create Lasting Wealth Through Real Estate

Join the millions of people achieving financial freedom through the power of real estate investing

Start here