Please help $41,000 paid to a guru company to be refunded !

459 Replies

One thing is sure here on BP, gurus are unwelcome here.  This site was created so that those wanting to get into real estate had an alternative to those ripoff artists. They sometimes even sends some of their people here to drum up business with fake testimonies.  Many criminals have stated, that those that they victimized deserve it.  Really?  So those people that the gurus got to, those who set themselves up, deserve to be taken.  Would you feel that way if was someone in your family got victimized like that? Even better, how would you like it if it was you who got victimized?  Those that pays homage to the gurus being good at finding victims to ripoff is like putting lipstick on a pig. 

@James Wise @Jay Hinricks  I have seem James Wise make fun of some of some of these gurus' tactics.

@Jay Hinrichs I don't think its fair to compare the Guru schucksters with turnkey home sellers. There exist independent ways to value a home. You can get appraisals, comps etc. to make sure you are not overpaying. And if you get a loan, the bank does a lot of the due diligence for you as well. You can also get rent comps etc to see its value as an investment. The Gurus want you to pay $40K with no idea what you are buying for the money. Maybe some of them deliver some value, many do not. I know people who have bought into the system and have nothing to show for it other than very basic information you can get anywhere. And then  turnkey home can be resold, maybe at some loss, but still it has tangible market value. What can you do with your $40K guru education? And then theres the sales method. I have never seen a turnkey vendor put people in a room and give them a now or never pitch using all kinds of well known psychological tricks to get people to put aside their inhibitions. I have bought turnkey homes with my eyes fully open. If they work or not as an investment, I cannot claim to be duped by the sellers.

@Anish Tolia

   I hear ya my point was both have targeted marketing to folks, and most folks go to a guru type thing to learn to DIY.. when they could just buy a turn key. or some other asset.

However and again am not defending them at all. and the sales techniques they use are not something I would employ or condone at all... However I have met many who swear by their guru or trainer that they have spent thousands on... And some of them are quite successful, I do business with a few of them that came from Guru trainings.. So there are two sides to it.. but the general charactizations that are presented here are accurate but they are not absolute either. AS I said I might be one of the few folks on BP that has actually been in the back room of these operations or will Admit it :)...

There is another thread trending today about a guy who bought a turn key in Harrisburg and is upside down about 60k on one deal... Could he have spent 40k with a guru and learned what to look out for and not got suckered into that particular turn key operators product.. Maybe !!... there are all levels of sophistication when it comes to investors.. Some will be led blindly and sign up for the 40k deals. some will just buy from turn key and never do any due diligence only to be totally underwater after a few years or have lost all their money.. We all know that.. they get the same results with different approach's.

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Account Closed This Guru only gives 3 day money back guaranteed.

I have already asked my CC company for dispute. Consumers Credit Protection Act gives us up to 6 months to dispute a charge after payment made. 

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Disclosure: Pinnacle Investment Properties sells turnkey properties

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :

@Barbara G.

You have two kinds the training gurus who charge the 40k to come to their event then you have TK guys that charge nothing but make 10 to 20k per house you buy. either way they are all making big dollars.

Jay, it depends on the market but as you know in the Midwest, profits are much closer to the $10K number than the $20K number. $10K isn't a huge profit considering the risk that the TK guys take and can get eaten up real quickly. As long as the TK company isn't putting huge mark ups on their properties and are selling quality product at market value, no one should be concerned with how much profit they make. The guru's on the other hand are making a huge profit and often for little value. I can't tell you how many calls I've gotten (one just today) from people who have spent a fortune (and often don't have the fortune to spend) and have asked me if I can help them out of the bad property they bought on their $40K bus tour. A favorite tactic of these guys is to tell the class full of people to call their credit card companies to get their credit limits increased (ostensibly so they can pay for rehabs and what not). What they really want is for you to have enough credit to pay for their $40K mentoring program. I know of one that does provide value, but there are way too many that are just taking advantage of people. It's very unfortunate.

Disclosure: Pinnacle Investment Properties sells turn key properties

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :

@Anish Tolia

There is another thread trending today about a guy who bought a turn key in Harrisburg and is upside down about 60k on one deal... Could he have spent 40k with a guru and learned what to look out for and not got suckered into that particular turn key operators product.. Maybe !!... there are all levels of sophistication when it comes to investors.. Some will be led blindly and sign up for the 40k deals. some will just buy from turn key and never do any due diligence only to be totally underwater after a few years or have lost all their money.. We all know that.. they get the same results with different approach's.

Very true. You can get ripped off by TK companies too and many due. There are a lot of unsuspecting people who don't do their due diligence and way over pay for a property in a war zone. They shouldn't have to pay $40K to learn how to buy a TK though. There really isn't any big mystery about it. Unfortunately some people rely on what others tell them and don't do their due diligence. One of the big problems is that out of state buyers in high cost markets i.e. CA see a $75K house and assume it just HAS to be a good deal for that low of a price but the house may only be worth $60K, It's a matter of perspective. Even if you're paying cash, spring for an darn appraisal if you don't know how to determine market values. It will save a lot of heartache.

Originally posted by Account Closed:

You don't have to dispute it. 

The consumer credit protection act and a bunch of other abbreviations have safeguards in place with the lenders to prevent crap like this from happening.  

I stress that the free annual credit report at annualcreditreport.com will show you exactly who the culprit is, and then you question why they inquired about your credit history.  Your score means diddly squat to shysters. Just whether or not you are prime to be taken advantage of by being complacent with STATUS.

Regardless of when and how you dispute it, in your case all you know is people are disappearing only to be replaced by others with different paperwork for you to sign. 

I'm done.

Based on the time frame you gave initially -- you have 3 days left.  Then you will be in debt to the CC companies.

 HI Marvin

I don't know exactly what you are talking about although it sounds good.  Could you explain this a little more clearly to me???  Debbie, our defrauded BP member, bought into this GURU for $41,000 some time toward the very end of Jan 2015 (I think) and she sent the letter  to the CC company at the end of March 2015.  Could you explain how this ( complaint to the CC ) might help her?  She disputed the claim, to the CC company  at the end of March or beiginning of April.  Is there another step she should take as far as the CC company is concerned?  What will the CC company do about her dispute?  Is there anything else, or further that you reccomend?

Thanks

bg

When will the CC companies get back to Debbie about her $41,000 dispute?  She sent her dispute request in at the very last day in March 2015 or the beginning of April.  If they tell her they are investigating or waiting for a response what should she do about her credit cards?

Should she ask the credit card companies to cancel her last CC number (s) and assign her a new number?  What do the BP members reccomend that she do next?

If it's in dispute, they usually put a "hold" on the money so there would be no payment due on the disputed amount.

That being said,,,,,,,

GET A LAWYER TO LOOK AT THIS THING ASAP

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Dam Dam Dam!!! Just to chime in here. I don't think you will get back $41K if you sign a Refund Agreement. They may want to charge the processing fees plus some percent (unjustly prorated) after the 3 day right of refusal. ex. $8K for the next xx months of service which is prepaid and nonrefundable. From the vendor's perspective they get hit with merchant processing fees regardless. Adding to that it seems as though someone already hightailed it out of Dodge with the first $4500. Just be careful what you sign. 

Next bet prove that the consumer (thyself) was misled and continue to document, not just rant here, the events as they occur. Remember you already signed an agreement and knowingly gave consent to be charged. Be prepared for litigation. Print email & text, note phone correspondence. 

Third option.... Sigh, and recant this for the next 10 years as to why you failed in your pursuits if this doesn't work out. 

Fourth option..... Move On.

@Debbie Lee

  you have done all you can do... next step would be to file a civil suit ... and most likely the case  does not have a lot of value .. so you could easily end up spending as much on attorney fee's as what your refund if you got it would be..

Always keep in mind  Defending litigation especially in the beginning is very inexpensive.. As a defendant you get served a summons and compliant.. you simply file a response and denial of all claims..     For you to sue would cost far more...

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Seminar gurus... give them long enough, and they hang themselves.

RichDad, Poor Dad - Exactly What it Says

Debbie Lee, if you decide you want to talk to an attorney, my business attorney is located in Utah (where the company you contracted with is located).  I would be happy to refer you to him, as well as give him a heads-up on your situation.

Here's another interesting piece on a certain "friend" of yours...

Chris-cannon - I estimate him to be around 42-45 years of age.  What is he hiding?

Lew

@Lew Payne

  did I read this right he is a congress man ?  also one of my sharpest RE attonreies I use worked for Preston gates and ellis prior to starting his own firm.

Having been in their offices and watching the operation its big bucks no doubt.

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I hope Debbie you call the CC companies TODAY and ask where theey are with your claim.  Are they holding your bills in dispute?  I certainy hope they have agreed to do that.  That is the Next step and we all want to know how that works out.  We want to see some positive results.  Please let us know where 14 pages of this concern on all BP's part is ending up.  We hope you are successful so you can go on to your first real estate deal/purchase.

bg

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