All Forum Posts by: Chris K.

@Justin K.

I don't have the caselaw in front of me. But courts have held that the purchaser at a tax sale are equitable owners of the property. Until you receive the tax sale deed, you are not the record owner. 

The question becomes what you do with that information. You could try to go in there as the equitable owner. But if there are people living there, that could lead to a hairy situation. You may ultimately need to seek an ejectment and quiet-title action before you can do anything. That's especially true since you are dealing with two potential opposing parties --- the previous owner and the tenant. 

Also note that with tax sales, you can never really confirm the validity of the tax sale until a court expressly rules on it. The fact that the beneficiary of a trust is still active and the fact that they live on the property raises some concerns. You'll be shocked how many cases got overturned due to the Bureau's failure to strictly comply with the notice provisions. 

Sometimes you can get by this with Trusts by filing for a quiet-title action and hoping that they don't respond. But here, it looks like the trust is still active. 

Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.

@Ray Slack

Assuming someone else has the mineral rights, you will have to provide reasonable accommodation to that party to access their minerals. What that means will depend on the exact circumstances. But you will generally need to negotiate with the party to determine the exact location of their equipment, etc. There are a lot of gray area in this realm. So neither party wants to rely on the default law. Instead, they will typically enter into contracts with each other to specify what the company is allowed to do on  your land. 

If you are working on a large scale project like yours, it's probably time to discuss this with an attorney to make sure you know what you are dealing with. 

Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.

@Ray Slack

That's a very common, boilerplate exception. Note that this is a title policy exception. It doesn't really say anything about whether someone else owns the mineral rights to your campground. You will need to review the chain of title to make that determination. 

If someone else owns the mineral rights, then it is possibility that they can later come and try to develop the underlying mineral. Assuming the holder can get all the required permits, you cannot prevent them from getting reasonable access for development and production. At that point, you should hire a lawyer to review your rights. 

In most situations, the chances of an oil and gas company actually trying to drill on your property is fairly minimal. This is especially true nowadays where drilling activities are minimal. But with a campground, drilling is a real possibility later down the line. So if you are not sure, I would ask your counsel to review it just to make sure. 

Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.

@Jay Ji

I am around that neck of the woods. If I can't help you, I certainly know other lawyers that can. Feel free to shoot me a PM! 

Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.

@Robert Gorra

As @Joseph ODonovan stated, you are likely dealing with an ejectment action. I would suggest that you first try the cash for keys method. Hire an attorney that can draft all the legal documents necessary to finalize the transaction. Also work with a title company to figure out what you need to do to get a marketable title for a property that you purchased at an action. Getting a quit claim deed from the former owner, for example, might help with the process. 

If you can't reach a settlement, you will have to go through the ejectment process. Just note that the process can easily drag on for over a year if the former owner decides to fight. It will take even longer if the former owner files for bankruptcy. You will most likely win in the end --- it just takes a long time and will cost at least five figures. 

Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.

@Jacob Lapp

I'm a lawyer but I get asked a lot to do "consulting" work for real estate projects. They may not need my legal help but they may need my help with underwriting, financing, construction planning, etc. For those types of projects, I typically charge them 1/2 to 1/3 of my lawyer fees. I don't mind the discount since it's fun. 

In terms of charging friends, I mostly deal with other professionals and business folks. So they generally have no qualms about paying me if I needed to get deeply involved. But I agree with others that you want to be sensitive to time. For example, I won't bill my full time talking on the phone when we spend half of it socializing. 

Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.

@Kyle McCorkel

In many situations, you are "lucky" if you have the tax sale overturned. Many worst case scenarios I've seen involve situations where the buyer ends up with a property with tons of liens. That's an obvious risk in upset sales but also a major risk in judicial sales as well. Nothing sucks more than ending up with a property with ridiculous amount of liens from various creditors. 

You see a lot of caselaw on this topic where the buyers in the above situations make a desperate attempt to get the sale overturned. But they generally will fail. As the buyer at a tax sale, you are at the very bottom of the totem pole when it comes to protection.

Very few people have a track record of success that @David Krulac has. It can also get very competitive in many counties if there are larger players who are willing to gamble. They will buy a ton of properties at a sale with the understanding that many of them will be "duds." Hard to compete with those guys when it comes to due diligence. 

Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.

@David Haynes

I agree with most of what you wrote. But when it comes to attorney pricing, it's typically more related to firm size and location than anything else. The hourly rate for an experienced attorney in say Wilkes-Barre/Scranton is likely going to be lower than a first year associate in Philadelphia at a national law firm. National firms tend to serve large, institutional clients that need a firm that can handle multi-jurisdiction projects. 

An example client might be an institutional developer from NY working on a new construction project in PA with lenders from multiple jurisdictions with a general contractor located in New Jersey. In those scenarios, they typically prefer to go with a large law firm that has experts in all those jurisdictions. In exchange for that "convenience," the client expects to pay a much higher rate --- even for recent law school graduates. 

Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.

@Mason Kimball

As you mentioned, I think it's a good ideal to find an attorney that also invests in real estate. I would ask if the attorney has experience investing in the type of real estate you are interested in investing. 

Below are some questions that I ask as an attorney when I need to hire an out-of-state attorney for my real estate transactions. I don't really ask them as a question --- I just naturally try to bring it up during a conversation to see what he or she has to say.  

     1. Capital Gains/1031 Exchange/Cost Seg: If I get the chance, I like to talk a bit about capital gains taxes resulting from real estate. If the attorney works with a lot of investor, the attorney is bound to deal with issues involving capital gains tax. If the attorney is knowledgeable about the topic it says a lot about the attorney. 

     2. Entity: I always like to give some scenarios and ask what entity the attorney would recommend if I was to invest with multiple folks on the deal. Their answer tends to reveal a lot about what kind of work they handled in the past. 

     3. Market Knowledge: I like to ask the attorneys about their thoughts on the market including what the market cap rates are. You don't really need to know this to be a good attorney. But again, it reveals a lot about the kind of work they do. 

With all that said, the best general bet is to go with a referral from a trusted source. This is especially true if you are just starting out. As you may know, most real estate attorneys specialize within the realm of real estate. So you may have an attorney that specializes in zoning/land use matters. You may have another attorney that specializes in residential properties. You may have yet another attorney that specializes in larger deals. My point is that when you are buying smaller investments, you may not need any specific level of expertise. So you might just be better off going with someone you can trust and will be patient with you (versus going with someone who has a very high level of expertise in a particular topic in real estate). 

Just a few thoughts!

Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.

@David M.

I would say explore both markets. Scranton and its surrounding markets are fine rental markets. Just note that Scranton itself has more regulations to deal with and the taxes are higher (both property tax and also realty transfer tax). In exchange, Scranton generally has the highest rent in the Northeastern Pennsylvania Area. 

The fact that you are in the military means you are probably eligible for VA loans. That's a significant advantage that you have if you want to go the house hacking route. But I don't know whether it would make sense for you to do so while in active duty.

Thank you for your service by the way!

Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.