All Forum Posts by: Amie D.

@Jim K., ok, thanks so much for the clarification. I too thought this was a pretty big oversight and thought it was odd that they would push back on the request. I get that perhaps they do manage a lot of properties and taking special requests from each property owner would interrupt their current workflow and be more of a time sink for them. But I had thought calling two landlords back was pretty standard and thought it was odd they did not do that already. Maybe on the whole it has worked for them. But again it depends on how many properties they have managed. On the extreme side if I have managed two houses and so far "everything has gone fine" that is different than if I have managed thousands and vetted the process. According to them they have/do manage(d) hundreds of properties. I do know that they have multiple people showing and a secretary. Their manager portal on the whole seems well done too. Not that it really says anything but it seems like it is not just a mom and pop business at the same time.

On the flip side if they were not that good, it's weird they have been recommended by several sources and seem well known in the area. Some of their other processes do seem to be nailed down so, really, I just want to find out what went wrong here. Maybe since we last talked they have reviewed this item and now do it another way. I am going to talk to them and see what is currently going on. I am not in this to work for free; I hire property managers to make my life easier and so far... they've not met that. But to be totally fair it was due to the tenants being so bad. The property managers on the whole have responded in a decent timeframe when things have occurred and worked with me to get them resolved.  Perhaps they realized these tenants were bad and were just trying to get through the lease. So it looks like the issue is more with their selection process as mentioned. They also didn't notify me about the eviction, etc, so I am going to get an explanation for that as well - the only thing I can think of is that perhaps most property managers don't want to be bothered and prefer them to take care of it all.

If there are still these holes after I talk to them then, yes I think it's best to get someone else. It may work for them but obviously it doesn't work for me. 

As posted in another thread, I had bad tenants that are being evicted. They stopped paying rent and, according to neighbors, moved out early. Among other things they left two mattresses strewn about the property and one of the tenants was telling the neighbors the house now has bedbugs. I am suspicious it may be true because - why would they move out early and leave mattresses. The PM's have said they cannot legally go into the property until the eviction process is complete, but I want to be prepared for when that is done. 

I've not had this issue but am thinking the right way to proceed would be to have a professional pet control company inspect the place before moving new tenants in. I also realize many people mistake bed bugs for other things like fleas etc.

-Can a pest control company come out and inspect and tell me what the issue actually is? My guess is yes, I am just hoping they would be honest about it. 

-Does anyone know of a reputable company in the NKY/Cincinnati area, and how much I can plan for an inspection fee to cost?  

-I have read other posts and see that actual bedbug removal, if that is what it is, is expensive. I'm am probably out of luck due to the eviction and the tenant's nonpayment of two month's rent already. I also had received calls from the utility companies they were not paying those bills either. Their deposit is also mostly eaten by other damages they already have had. Still, what methods can be used to try to get damages? I've read you can garnish their pay but this is a difficult process as well. 

@Theresa Harris, thanks. I am thinking this is the route I am going to take. I am also going to talk to other property managers so I have a backup in mind in case things go south with the conversation.

I actually had asked a few of the neighbors to take a picture for me (as multiple neighbors were saying what a problem this is, including one on the next street whose extensive garden faces my house) and they said they would but I didn't receive any. I didn't want to demand as realistically, they are not working for me and, frankly, I think they didn't want to get involved to where the tenants would know and possibly cause problems for them as well, which I can understand. The property is located on a curved street so it would be hard to take a picture without being obvious. According to when I last spoke to the neighbor yesterday, the tenants have moved out and left things here and there but not nearly as messy as it was. Technically though the eviction was approved, I don't think things can be removed at this point until they go over with the sheriff for repossession. 

I did speak to another property owner who said if the original tenants had moved out, and someone was living there that was not an original tenant they could reclaim immediately. On the other hand I could see the original tenants saying they did technically still have the lease going there and their mom was just "visiting" them so it would again be hard to prove anything. I am concerned about my potential liability for someone living there not on the lease. For example if she slips and falls and sues me. That is a risk every property owner takes but part of that is in exchange for being paid rent. She is not paying rent, nor are the original tenants. So it's a crap situation brought on by crap tenants, again who were selected by these PMs.

The property managers do include an inspection at six months and when they went out they did provide photos of the property. They said it was messy but nothing was damaged or broken, and that is what it appeared from their photos. They didn't however include photos of the front and side of the house, which I'd heard was an eyesore. The managers explained that part was still not good yet they told the residents to clean it up. I didn't get updated photos of that. Apparently the renters did clean it up some (I then got another code violation for them leaving multiple trash cans out for too many days) but it apparently it still wasn't that good and got bad again. I don't know, I think with some people old habits are hard if not impossible to break. IE if they have been slobs/hoarders their whole lives they aren't going to change now. As I mentioned above, I had heard that the place they are living at now looks a total mess as well. So again, I'm not sure who would say they were ideal tenants as it looks like a pattern with them so their former landlord may have just wanted them out or the reference was fake. If I was their PM I would not lie, I would rather just evict and tell the truth so no one else would have that problem but not everyone is honest I guess. 

I'm also going to re-review their rental policies and again ask that the previous landlord be contacted and not just the first. And ask why I wasn't contacted when rent wasn't being paid and the eviction was filed. They do have an owner's portal but you have to log in to see rent payments, and there is no notification process that tells you if it is just late or gone unpaid. I am going to tell them that I really just want to understand what went wrong here so it won't happen again moving forward.  

And, in being honest I am not even expecting perfection. I get that, realistically over the years, a bad tenant can come through now and then. I have had a few other tenants that haven't been that great (though not as bad as these). A friend who just sold his house when he moved heard this story from me and said, "I'm so glad we decided to sell and not rent". But if you take the long view the rentals have been profitable over time and most renters have been good. Most people only hear the nightmare stories. I agree that, if the nightmare stories are all you have, you have a systemic problem. 

I guess a complicating factor is that this is the first time I have rented with this company. Had I rented with them for a long time and things were good and then a one off like this happened, I would be concerned but probably more lenient. However these were *pretty* bad and I don't have that history with them. 

There's a saying in business, "Hire slow fire fast", but then, others such as business mogul Richard Branson has also said to try to work with what you have first. So, I am divided. It seems over the years I fire more property managers than I've kept but I guess it's how it can go.  It will probably also depend on how this next discussion goes. They may be happy to get out of this as well as I can somewhat tell they are frustrated by it all too. 

@Rodney Robinson, thanks for the reply! I did ask about their screening process before hiring them and from what I recall, it seemed decent/standard. It’s a good point though, thanks, I am going to go back through my notes and see what they had said. I did ask again when I first started having issues with these tenants, but that was a while ago. At that point I found out more specifically that they only checked the current landlord and not also the previous, which I didn’t/don’t agree with.

I remember thinking perhaps I should ask to see the actual paperwork because I felt like maybe for whatever reason on these tenants the proper steps were not taken or someone let something slide from their normal process. Like, they claimed the current landlord said these were stellar tenants. I have a feeling the landlord wanted to get rid of them or it was someone’s Mom (lol who is now supposedly living at the house for some reason... 😂) because I’m not sure who would say that. Apparently wherever they are now living looks a total mess now too. A previous landlord has no interest and usually tells the truth and it’s harder to fake multiple references. But, I wasn’t sure of the legality of seeing their actual paperwork since the tenants had already been signed and I wasn’t involved in the original transaction, so I didn’t go that route. 

The property manager did have a point during our discussion and said that it is also an in their best interest to get quality tenants in because it is also less work for them. With all the properties they manage he said they certainly didn’t want to have tenants causing issues as it was an ongoing headache for them too.

I’d also like to discuss their beliefs on rent, while I think it’s good to get the highest rent possible it has been my belief that it’s better to charge slightly less and have a good selection of tenants who will stay a longer time, than charge on the high end and get a lesser selection tenants who may not be that good. Unless of course you have a luxury property. This place isn’t that, but more in the middle. 

And also I’ll ask why I was not told/consulted about the eviction etc. Maybe it is just their policy to be very hands off so the owners have less to do. I’m sure there are owners that prefer it that way. I probably would too, if decent tenants were consistently being brought in.

@Frank Geiger, to be fair the property is located in what is probably best described as a borderline rural area. It does have a slightly awkward layout in one respect as to get to the two lower level rooms you need to walk through an unfinished part of the basement. And, unfortunately the new neighbor on the other side seems to have an endless “renovation” going on and his yard is a mess. So combine all that and you don’t get the top end tenants there but with proper screening you can get decent ones. On the plus side it’s located a few minutes outside a major city and the other people tend to keep up their houses and it is quiet, it backs to green space with a large garden across the street and other parks nearby. It’s also been fully renovated, and was nice at least before these tenants. 

The last couple lived there for five years and I had few issues with them. I used a real estate agent to find the previous tenants and he would gather their information and show the property and when someone would make the basic qualifications he would send the information to me. Then I made the final decision. At that point I turned it over to the previous property managers. I let them go due to exorbitant repair fees and a very slow turnover time (weeks after tenant move out and nothing was being done), as well as a few other issues.

When I called the agent who found the previous tenants again this time he said he no longer did this service  as he had his own rentals now, and referred me to the current property managers. 

On the other hand I have another property manager I have used for years in another city and at this point it’s very hands off. He seems to find good tenants quickly and the turnover is very short. Usually less than a week vacant per year. I wouldn’t say he is entirely perfect either, but on the whole does a good job. 

And yes the neighbor has his quirks but definitely cares about the neighborhood as do several other residents that have gone out of their way to contact me due to this issue. I felt bad that essentially my house was the cause of the discord. I am four hours away so appreciate their insight into what is going on. From years ago when I used to self-manage, I typically give my number to the neighbors as I find they usually tell you the real truth about what’s going on. 

Yeah I’m going to call around. I am relocating myself even farther away so it’s annoying to have to do this now but probably even moreso when I can’t go out there to see what’s going on.

@Karl B. yes - this is what I thought. Some of what the tenant was actually doing I could understand the neighbor knowing and the property manager not since the manager is not there all the time. But the eviction?? What’s up with that? As this is my first go round with this manager I sent an email with a few months of the tenants lease left saying, “I just want to be sure we are on the same page and are not renewing the lease to the tenants at ‘XYZ Avenue’.” I actually wasn’t sure if he would. He replied of course not. So I made sure the property manager was giving them a 30-day notice of non renewal so they wouldn’t be allowed to stay by some loophole. So when the neighbor told me that the current tenants were saying they were being evicted I thought they mixed it up with the 30-day move out notice. I contacted the property manager who told me the tenants stopped paying rent so they decided to evict instead of the 30-day notice. 

In the end the lost rent will be about the same had their lease just ended and I’m out eviction fees. It probably was the right way in the end but I wasn’t consulted at all. They have a tenant guarantee that if the tenants move it early or evicted they won’t charge to find new ones. I reminded them about that and they agreed. I wonder if they would have brought it up on their own. It doesn’t actually save compared to eviction costs, lost rent and damages, but I guess it’s something.

I’m really concerned about the bed bug infestation as well. It wasn’t there when the tenants moved in, but why would they move out early and stop paying rent? The neighbor also said the former tenants are now living elsewhere in town. Not sure who would rent to them, but not so much my concern now. 

@Robert Fornwalt, that’s actually not a bad idea! He is retired so there all the time. But, not to be mean but mentally he can be kind of slow so, probably not. Also, I feel the situation may be worse than described because he’s also the type that doesn’t like to say anything bad about anyone else. 

@Jim K., are you saying review all the prospective tenant’s materials myself? I did that with the prior agent and found good tenants but otoh my other manager handles all of that. I have used him for many years now though. It might not be a bad step this time around. 

It seemed pretty basic because when these tenants moved in the neighbors said that they looked like they stepped right off the Jerry springer show. I also brought this up when talking about the broken door window to the current property manager. Because on some level someone met these people and felt Jerry springer’s guests were “good enough” to put in my house. I’m not sure if they felt pressured due to the extended vacancy or what. Personally I think the vacant time was because they were advertising the house as having an additional bedroom that wasn’t (room has a closet but is a walk through to another room and the back door) and as such the rent was too high. I asked to bring the rent down and they did slightly then signed these tenants. The neighbors said plenty of people were viewing the house but apparently no one was signing. 

And in case anyone is wondering - I don’t call my neighbors all the time to check in, they call me, especially the one because I do something else unrelated that I’m known for and he likes and follows my activities in that arena.  

Thanks. I really don’t know what to think. It does seem that they were doing their job to the best of their ability but maybe that is just not good enough, sad to say. 

The property manager told me he was personally driving by every couple of weeks to make sure they kept up the property due to all the code violations (which in that town, go under my name/record as the owner and NOT the tenants) but the neighbors seem to think he must not have been as it looked pretty bad. And I do not want to be “that owner” that is taking down the neighborhood. 

What I might do is call other property managers and see what they have to say. 

I’m tempted to give them another shot as the other manager was able to turn it around (and I have flat out fired others) but as my brother suggested why pay someone who is not doing that great of a job. But another friend said it may be like keeping an old car - at least you know what the problems are and can work on them versus getting a new unknown. 

Hi All,

I had posted about a year ago about tenants brought in by a new property manager. It seemed to take them a long time to rent the property and I had a bad feeling about these tenants from the start. This was because the first weekend, the tenants claimed the front door picture glass window “fell out”, but according to multiple neighbors they had held a wild party and someone drunk fell through the window. I went to see the house and could tell the window was shattered as such, it did not “fall out”. 

I also felt the repair done was shoddy as well. After discussions, the property manager said it was a temporary repair and sided with me and charged the renters for the damages. I’d wondered why after it took so long for them to find renters if this was the best they could do?

Probably 7-8 city code violation notices later, multiple complaints from the neighbors that the place looked a mess, and getting disconnect calls from the utilities as the renters were not paying and trying to pass off the bills on “new tenants” that did not exist, the tenants stopped paying rent. The property managers then started the eviction process. I found it odd that I had to find this out through a neighbor as well.

Also, I was told a while ago that too many people were living there and that someone parents actually moved in. I told the property manager but nothing was done. I get that it’s a hard thing to prove so though it bothered me I didn’t make a big deal of it. However a neighbor called me about something unrelated today and said the actual tenants had moved out a while back and the house was left vacant and unlocked. He also said two mattresses were left around the property and a former tenant was telling people the house is now infested with bed bugs.  

I reported this to the property manager who said they were not allowed by law to enter the property before the eviction went through and that one of the tenant’s mom was still living there as of last week.

The issue I have with this is that she is not on the lease. It seems that this leaves me open to liability for her to just be squatting there with the original tenants having moved out. I’m waiting to hear a response back from the manager about this. From his casual mention, he didn’t seem too bothered by it; unless he just blows it off to her having to be out when they go there to get possession with the sheriff in a couple of weeks. 

I’ve previously talked to the property manager about how this could happen. In my 20+ years of renting different properties, maybe I’ve been lucky but I’ve not had tenants this bad. One thing I noticed was that the managers only call the current landlord when doing a background check. He said that person gave them stellar references. I said could they call the previous because sometimes the current just wants to be rid of them. He then got semi defensive and said they manage many area properties and their system for vetting tenants has been good. He said sometimes one does slip through but it’s not often. 

As much as the tenants are bad the property managers are the ones who brought them in. These managers were actually recommended by a friend who is a real estate agent that also rents property. I’ve asked about them from other agents as I was considering selling that house and the other agents were familiar with them and also didn’t have anything negative to say. They had good references as well from several owners whom I spoke with prior to hiring. And on the plus side at least he’s been mostly decent in getting back to me on the issues. 

So I’m not sure at this point if I should again find a new property manager? Is it possible this could be a bad one off tenant for them? Or if I continue with them is it more a situation of, “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ...”

I have another property manager that I almost fired at a different property. I had a discussion with him and since then he’s been much better. Maybe the same could happen here, but I clearly do NOT want another set of tenants like this. 

Thanks for any opinions! 

From what I’ve seen unless you are doing off market deals it’s tough right now as it is everywhere, though the market overall has been showing signs of a slowdown. 

 @Mike Cumbie if you do not ever go visit your properties, how do you know if they are managing them right or not? Especially a new manager to you? You just notice something might be off and then fire them without finding what’s going on? Maybe that works for you, but I find leaving properties for years and just believing the property manager will handle it is a recipe for disaster. At the same time if there are irregularities I am going to do my best to find out what is really going on. Maybe there is something or maybe is was a miscommunication. I’m not going to fly off the handle and fire when I don’t know what’s really going on yet. 

Same with blindly trusting a property manager or new tenant. You may not trust/like/know the people that live around your properties, but one of the first things taught in an MBA program isn’t so much business but that your relationships and network are key. The neighbors are part of my network. Not only do they help me with existing rentals, they have tipped me off to other properties I may want to talk to to buy in the neighborhood. Why? Because they know me personally and know I care about keeping up my properties and not bringing anyone in who will be a problem. Sure some people see properties as a cash cow as long as the payments go in, they might not care about the method - the house can look like crap for years, renters could be an annoying nuisance to the entire neighborhood - maybe fine for them, but that’s not me or the mission of my company. Sure I want to make money but also value maintaining quality places to live, as well respecting the quality of the community and neighborhoods I’m involved in.

It is not only me, but love him or hate him (and not trying to make this political either way) Donald Trump visits his properties as well, talks to people and sees how it’s going. So does Jeff Bezos of Amazon. He will stop into his businesses, buy things, talk to the workers and customers, ask them how things are doing. If they see anything off, corrections are made. Brian Chesky, Airbnb’s CEO, will do the same to see how things are going. Richard Branson of Virgin Airlines. I could go on and on. Again, perhaps it’s not the way you do your thing but that’s fine. 

And no, not taking it personally however when someone who doesn’t know anything about me, the full situation or the way I run my business starts typing with verbosity that, “you are doing this, you believe this, you are going to do this” (when I’m not...) etc, based on a question I posted online - I find it a bit odd.

Thanks and have a good one -