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All Forum Posts by: Amie D.

Amie D. has started 53 posts and replied 342 times.

Post: Wear and tear vs tenant damage

Amie D.Posted
  • SFR Investor
  • South Bend, IN
  • Posts 342
  • Votes 56
Originally posted by @Jimmy Dudley:

Your PM is the problem. Find a new one and take the hit. Don't use premium paints on rentals either, a nice light color will make your turnovers much easier. 

Thanks. That’s what I was planning to do. I used premium paint as I was living there at the time and not planning to move but then life happened. 

Post: Wear and tear vs tenant damage

Amie D.Posted
  • SFR Investor
  • South Bend, IN
  • Posts 342
  • Votes 56
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:

@Amie D. by now you've received good advice to find a new PM.

However, I did want to focus in on something that @Joe Splitrock said about life span of items.  This is key for you to know as a landlord so that you can avoid costly court challenges.

If the tenant was there 5 + years, it is expected that the walls would need to be painted, so they can't be charged for that regardless of the repainting without permission.  HOWEVER, the patches could be charged as that is considered damage.

Similarly, if there was carpet (for example), and it was all stained when they moved out, you wouldn't be able to charge them as carpet has a 4 year shelf life, and is expected to be changed.

The hardwoods are a different story as the water damage should go back to the Tenant.  The recoating or refinishing would probably be your responsibility as it would be considered normal maintenance for the floors.

So, there are give and takes associated with each item.  You need a good PM that knows the difference, and can allocate expense accordingly.

Best of luck to you!

Thanks - I was already interviewing and preparing to hire a new PM before I posted lol. 

As I mentioned before I’m really just going to let the pm charge them for the cleaning and debris removal and get bids on the rest as I need to move on. Regardless of the situation they’ve know the tenants were going to move out since January and the place is still unrented and now sitting vacant and dirty. 

The new PM also includes inspection and pictures every six months as part of their services and had I had this, the renter painted walls, holes, and stained floors would have been caught sooner and not an issue now. I’m just moving on. 

Post: Wear and tear vs tenant damage

Amie D.Posted
  • SFR Investor
  • South Bend, IN
  • Posts 342
  • Votes 56

Well, that’s what I meant - the pm charged them almost their full deposit ($688 or something out of $750, don’t have the bill in front of me) for cleaning fees and removing items they left; charged me for the repainting and repairing black stains the tenants left on the hardwood floors. 

Honestly at this point I’m just bidding out the floors and paint with the new pm and having the last pm do the cleaning and dealing with the deposit. This is dragging on too long; they also say they are closed on weekends so each time I hit a weekend, more inaction.

They say it can take them 2-3 weeks to turn an sfr and that’s really not acceptable to me because by the time they will then show it I’ve had a vacant house for a month. The new pm operates on a faster turnaround schedule. Old pm cites limitations as far as how many people they have working for them, I think if they have more properties than they can handle to where properties are sitting vacant for weeks, they need to hire more people to get the work done, especially since they charge the high end for everything. This vacancy time and back and forth is costing me money as well as risking a break in etc just sitting. 

Post: Wear and tear vs tenant damage

Amie D.Posted
  • SFR Investor
  • South Bend, IN
  • Posts 342
  • Votes 56
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

@Amie D. paint in rental properties will last 5-7 years. That is considered the useful life. Even if you determine the tenant is to blame for it needing to be painted prematurely, you can't charge 100% of the cost. This is true of any depreciable item (carpet, appliances, etc). You have to establish the lifespan of the item, then prorate. Let's say you determine wall paint should last 10 years, then the tenant is responsible for 5/10 of the cost or 50%. I would expect a rental property to require repainting after a 5+ year tenant, touch up for anything less than that. As far as the rooms they painted without permission, I would charge them for repainting but only the prorated amount of remaining life.

The fact that you have a PM in the middle stating it is common wear and tear, hurts your position greatly. A third party is saying it is acceptable wear, so now if you go to court it is your tenant and the PM against you. Your PM is not helping here as you already know, which is why you fired them.

I will disagree with your statement that the PM "figure it's easier to get me to pay for it than take the previous tenants to court." You are paying for this either way. Even if they take the tenant to court, you still need to pay the bill while you try to recoup the money. In most PM agreements, the PM gets reimbursed for time in court, so it could cost you more chasing money you will never get. 

Repainting rooms between tenants is an expense/maintenance cost not a capitalized depreciable asset, if you can show me differently I’d be interested in seeing that for future reference. This also wasn’t that we just found they had painted. They specifically asked the PM for those colors in those rooms, and we said No. Especially since most were dark and would take more paint to recover back to neutral. I’ve got that all documented. As I stated, the rooms they didn’t paint they had poorly filled in holes everywhere, that will need to be sanded and fixed. 

I spoke to the owner of the company and he was apologetic and said he would go over there himself to do the inspection, as he thought that I was simply moving on to the new manager. I’m not sure why that would matter, why do a slipshod job in any case. 

The reason I said that the pm is getting me to pay for the paint is it seems suspicious that they would charge the current tenants for cleaning and removal of the items they left up to almost their entire deposit and then the rest billed to me, done by their maintenance company of course. Also almost twenty bad reviews online by former tenants and many had mentioned this using the deposit for cleaning fees similarly. So I dunno, maybe they just do it that way for everyone but they get paid in the end either way. 

I doubt I will do more than bill the tenants for what they would need to pay beyond their deposit. Even if I won in small claims it would probably be difficult to reclaim the funds in the end. I’m getting bids for the work so at least it lowers my bill. The property is sitting vacant while this is all going on as well. 

I’m half tempted to go there and paint it and fix the floors myself just to get this done finally lol. 

Post: Wear and tear vs tenant damage

Amie D.Posted
  • SFR Investor
  • South Bend, IN
  • Posts 342
  • Votes 56
Originally posted by @Ned J.:

I agree with @Joe Splitrock....... you should expect to have to do some repainting after a 5 year tenant.... that part is wear and tear and will not hold up in court if you try and charge them the full cost. You can pro-rate the rooms they painted without permission and that's it.

And I agree the other charges seem pretty high and I would get outside bids ASAP.

Sure, some repainting, but they painted the various colors on most of the house and the rooms that remain have the poorly spackled holes of various sizes filled all around. Like white patches on the off white walls. 

I’m just trying to end it with the current PM now. The bad part is they have the tenants deposit and I’m not sure how the transfer of that would work since there are certain rules that govern the handling of it. 

They seem to be dragging their feet and I believe there’s a 30 day time limit on the deposit, we are almost two weeks from when they moved out with nothing done but the photos taken a few days ago. 

Post: Wear and tear vs tenant damage

Amie D.Posted
  • SFR Investor
  • South Bend, IN
  • Posts 342
  • Votes 56
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

If it shortens the life of the item by a greater amount than the duration of their stay, it’s damage.

Yes. Not sure why the poorly filled holes are not being charged, etc.

Post: Wear and tear vs tenant damage

Amie D.Posted
  • SFR Investor
  • South Bend, IN
  • Posts 342
  • Votes 56
Originally posted by @Erik W.:

Another vote to fire you PM.  Those demands are ridiculous, and their level of service is appalling.  I would consider reporting them to the State Board of Realtors as well.  As licensed agents, they have a fiduciary responsibility to put your best interests first, and clear they did not.

Here's a clause from my lease.  Demand that any future PM add it to their lease, unless they can cite you chapter and verse of the state statutes where your properties are that forbid it.  
.
Wear and Tear: TENANT AGREES THAT DIRT, FILTH, GREASE, GRIME, SMUDGES, DINGS, HOLES, STAINS, SCRATCHES, TEARS, CRACKS, CHIPS, AND BREAKAGE does not constitute normal usage and will be billed as damages. _____ _____ _____ _____ (initials)

Thanks for that! I’m going to go over the new PM’s lease and add.

Going on two weeks since the renters moved out and they’ve only gone over and taken the photos. House is still sitting dirty and unkempt. 

Post: Wear and tear vs tenant damage

Amie D.Posted
  • SFR Investor
  • South Bend, IN
  • Posts 342
  • Votes 56
Originally posted by @Bradford Clark:

I’d talk to several local property managers and tell them this exact story. They want you business and service fees

I’m going with one that was recommended by a friend who also owns property in the area. But maybe I should shop around too. This is such a bad time to happen, I’m currently relocating across country and looking at places for myself as well as additional investment properties !!

Post: Wear and tear vs tenant damage

Amie D.Posted
  • SFR Investor
  • South Bend, IN
  • Posts 342
  • Votes 56
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Fire your pm. Pay people to make your life easier, not harder.

 Yes ageed! In process!!

Post: How long does it take your property managers to turnover a SFR?

Amie D.Posted
  • SFR Investor
  • South Bend, IN
  • Posts 342
  • Votes 56
Originally posted by @Megan Moody:

Curious to hear what others say but I would think it would depend upon what actually needed to be repaired and what the extent of the work was that needed to be done

I’m curious as well - there seems to be a large variance. One of mine consistently does whatever it is within about five days. Some others seem to take their time ...