All Forum Posts by: David Dachtera
David Dachtera has started 94 posts and replied 4494 times.
Post: RENATUS SCHOOLING?
- Rental Property Investor
- Rockford, IL
- Posts 4,613
- Votes 2,995
Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
Originally posted by @J Scott:
Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
Not sure whether that would happen but it is a suggestion worth consideration ...
This is actually a great suggestion by Steve. I would bet money that if Steve, Jay, Bill or any of a handful of other folks here were to recommend Renatus (or any program for that matter), BP members would flock to it.
That's because BP folks have seen the value that people like Steve, Jay and Bill provide to the community. They've proven their expertise, experience and their desire to help other members here. And because of that, they've built trust with the community.
If you stick around, contribute, prove your expertise and your commitment to helping others here succeed, you'll probably find that you will build enough trust that people will come to you and ask you where you gained all your knowledge.
J, lets not keep bumping this thread, which just creates publicity for a spamming (and based on people's opinions, likely scamming) "company". Even though I just bumped it myself.
If Doug actually had a single post on here where he interacted with the BP community, or tried to help someone, that would actually add to credibility. So far, every single post has been about this Renatus. Ugly name, ugly motives. Have a good day!
Well, Andrey, the subject of this thread is "RENATUS SCHOOLING?". What SHOULD we be discussing?
Renatus itself does no advertising at all - they have the affiliate network to do that on their dime, not Renatus's. So, if you see a spammer claiming to represent Renatus, be sure to report it to Renatus Corporate. Use the contact information on the Renatus website.
Also, if you do actually discover any scam usurping the name Renatus, be sure to report it to Renatus Corporate. Again, use the contact information on the Renatus website.
By the way, the name "Renatus" comes from the Latin. Loosely translated it means, "a rebirthing", as in being reborn to a new personal and financial destiny.
Gee - I wasn't aware that helping people become financially independent and helping them secure their financial future was an "ugly motive".
What, in your opinion, would be more noble or, at least, less "ugly"?
Post: RENATUS SCHOOLING?
- Rental Property Investor
- Rockford, IL
- Posts 4,613
- Votes 2,995
Originally posted by @Bryan Hancock:
I checked out the Renatus site this evening and perused this thread a bit. There are definitely some strongly-held beliefs by new posters who seem to have a self-serving reason for posting. Here are my general observations:
- Renatus looks very similar to Nouveau Riche - Just glancing at the site Mark Kohler appears to be teaching many of the tax classes and Mat Sorenson appears to be teaching about IRAs
- From the comments in this thread is seems like many of the same instructors that taught at Nouveau Riche are also teaching at Renatus
- The compensation plan appears very similar to Nouveau Riche
- The sales tactics appear similar to Nouveau Riche
- The quasi cult-like following seems similar to Nouveau Riche
- These types of threads did not exist when the real estate industry was in the doldrums several years ago. They seem to peak when the real estate market gets hot
Nouveau Riche was run by Jim Piccolo who admits to a felony in this article:
Curtis DeYoung from American Pension Services is also being charged with fraud and was the company originally associated with Nouveau Riche. You can read more about this here:
SEC hits American Pension Services and its founder with fraud charges
Many other folks affiliated with Nouveau Riche appear to have legal trouble as well.
I do think there are many quality instructors with this company, but it is hard to sort through them to know who is legitimate and who is a felon. My suspicion is that Renatus may suffer from many of the same problems Nouveau Riche did no matter what they have done to try to improve things. This type of industry just attracts unsavory folks.
In general most of the people that attend this type of training don't have the mental fortitude, drive, or resources to execute on the training they're provided. As J mentioned earlier in this thread what is generally taught are strategies for limping into deals with very little cash because the average attendee doesn't have the money to capitalize deals correctly. I have said this many times on BP and I will state it again here that I think people would be far better-served by finding a local mentor and/or learning to raise capital on their own.
Renatus is VERY different from Nouveau Riche. NRU never had on-line classes - you always had to spend a week or more in Arizona to attend "the college". Some of the instructors are the same - many are not. The ones who are now with Renatus are very glad to have a man of integrity like Bob Snyder at the helm.
For the marketing side (yes, there ARE two sides to Renatus!), the compensation plan is GREATLY enhanced from NRU. There are no territories, and even your initial sales pay commission, for staters.
The "sales tactics" are the choice of each individual affiliate, within corporate guidelines.
Not sure about any "cult-like following", unless you mean having staunch defenders in the face of speculation and conjecture by those with no first-hand experience with Renatus. That type of defense is to be expected in the face of such an onslaught.
If a poster here had direct exposure to Renatus and then decided not to pursue it, and to post here about that experience, believe me - the conversation would be VERY different.
The only way to "know who is legitimate and who is a felon" is, again, to have first-hand experience with them and/or to research them independently. Their names are posted prominently on the Renatus website - no secrets, anywhere!
"In general most of the people that attend this type of training don't have the mental fortitude, drive, or resources to execute on the training they're provided." I'm curious about the basis for that statement. On what research is it based? ...and how did you tie that research to the experiences of Renatus students?
Can you show me a beginner who didn't, "limp into deals with very little cash because the average attendee doesn't have the money to capitalize deals correctly"?
If you use all your own capital to get into deals, how many deals can you do? You know as well as I do that the answer is, "until your capital runs out".
If you use private money (not your own) to fund deals, how many deals can you do? I think you know that the answer is, "until your supply of lenders / investors is exhausted".
Which, in your opinion, is the more profitable method?
You ask about the value of the Renatus education? Let's start with learning how to:
A. Find buyers
B. Find private lenders / investors
C. Find vendors, contractors and other business partners
D. Analyze properties
E. Find potentially profitable deals
F. Make offers based on your analysis and established lending criteria and, if your offer wins, ...
G. Run the project keeping it on schedule and on budget
H. Completing the exit strategy and paying out lenders, vendors, investors and partners
I. Lather, rinse , repeat
... in THAT order.
Do you see any value there? Do you think newbies can be taught to do that?
What would be of greater value than what I have listed here?
Post: RENATUS SCHOOLING?
- Rental Property Investor
- Rockford, IL
- Posts 4,613
- Votes 2,995
Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
I have looked at the list of posts here on BP for both Doug Leedy and @David Dachtera, and it seems the vast majority of what they have posted is specifically things to endorse / defend Renatus. The value speaks for itself in Doug's words - they seem more interested in debating and arguing in favor of Renatus than actually demonstrating the value of the Renatus real estate education. Now they could do a better job demonstrating their real estate education's value by posting much more here on BP to help those novices who ask for assistance. That would actually demonstrate that they have learned something from that education.
Not sure whether that would happen but it is a suggestion worth consideration ...
I left a post with how to contact me. What else would you suggest?
What, in your opinion, would be a better way to "demonstrate the value of the Renatus real estate education"? Why would that not be better served by the individual making the inquiry getting first-hand experience with the presentation?
Your reply here shows that "you don't get if" - not trying to be condescending at all. What you suggest - a presentation - might be taken by others to be just marketing or propaganda. But if you were to do as
@J Scott just posted, to contribute to the BP community in a worthwhile way so that other members recognize you as an authority on some subject and someone with integrity - then others might actually see that as a demonstration of the value of your education. Hopefully that makes sense; it's the message I was alluding go with that earlier post.
Well, agreed - for the most part - Steve. However, I cannot let the falsehoods and derogatory statements about Renatus go unchallenged, especially when those statements are made by people with no direct exposure. The only way to know Renatus is to have experienced it first hand.
...and, actually, if you search the forums for my name, you will find that I have already begun contributing.
Post: RENATUS SCHOOLING?
- Rental Property Investor
- Rockford, IL
- Posts 4,613
- Votes 2,995
Originally posted by @J Scott:
Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
Not sure whether that would happen but it is a suggestion worth consideration ...
This is actually a great suggestion by Steve. I would bet money that if Steve, Jay, Bill or any of a handful of other folks here were to recommend Renatus (or any program for that matter), BP members would flock to it.
That's because BP folks have seen the value that people like Steve, Jay and Bill provide to the community. They've proven their expertise, experience and their desire to help other members here. And because of that, they've built trust with the community.
If you stick around, contribute, prove your expertise and your commitment to helping others here succeed, you'll probably find that you will build enough trust that people will come to you and ask you where you gained all your knowledge.
Again, if you have any suggestions as to how best to demonstrate the value of Renatus's education, by all means - do suggest. Positive suggestions, please - we've done enough beating of the "challenges" dead-horse.
To augment what's in my profile, I will add these:
In my W2 position, I'm one of only about 100 or so people in the U.S. who can do what I do.
While I've not done a lot of transactions, I do have 30 years of experience in real estate.
I started singing and reading in church in the 5th grade - that means I have 50 years experience in public speaking. The biggest crowd I've ever addressed was over 7000 people at a Robert Allen event in the early 90's.
Post: RENATUS SCHOOLING?
- Rental Property Investor
- Rockford, IL
- Posts 4,613
- Votes 2,995
By the way, Jason, from your profile...
Real Estate Goals
Keep on doing what we've been doing...
That means you'll keep on getting what you're getting.
If you're comfortable where you are, that's probably fine!
If, however, you change what you're doing you can change your results.
(Thanks, Tony Robbins! Actually, the old quote, "Doing the same things over and over and expecting the results to change is the definition of insanity" is usually attributed to Prof. Albert Einstein. So, I call it, "The Einstein Principle".)
Post: RENATUS SCHOOLING?
- Rental Property Investor
- Rockford, IL
- Posts 4,613
- Votes 2,995
Originally posted by @J Scott:
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Enough said. Your stance is interesting given that it sounds like your real estate efforts haven't yet paid for your Renatus tuition...
Get a few more deals under your belt and you may find that your perspective on a lot of the stuff you've said here has changed. And I mean that in all sincerity...the more deals I do, the more I realize how little I know about this business. And the more I respect the opinions of those who have accomplished more than I ever will in this business.
In the meantime, I'd recommend you stick around BiggerPockets, leverage the information we have available here and perhaps even get involved in some forum topics that are actually real estate related. It's free, so you have nothing to lose!
I made over $100K in profit using what I learned (since 1985) before I connected with Renatus.
What I've learned since will help me make that much profit three and four times a year, eventually!
Post: RENATUS SCHOOLING?
- Rental Property Investor
- Rockford, IL
- Posts 4,613
- Votes 2,995
Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
I have looked at the list of posts here on BP for both Doug Leedy and @David Dachtera, and it seems the vast majority of what they have posted is specifically things to endorse / defend Renatus. The value speaks for itself in Doug's words - they seem more interested in debating and arguing in favor of Renatus than actually demonstrating the value of the Renatus real estate education. Now they could do a better job demonstrating their real estate education's value by posting much more here on BP to help those novices who ask for assistance. That would actually demonstrate that they have learned something from that education.
Not sure whether that would happen but it is a suggestion worth consideration ...
I left a post with how to contact me. What else would you suggest?
What, in your opinion, would be a better way to "demonstrate the value of the Renatus real estate education"? Why would that not be better served by the individual making the inquiry getting first-hand experience with the presentation?
Post: RENATUS SCHOOLING?
- Rental Property Investor
- Rockford, IL
- Posts 4,613
- Votes 2,995
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
thanks for pointing out your profile, I would say its commensurate with 80% or greater of the BP members.. and now I can see why you have been somewhat brainwashed by the promises of RE rich's and the super simple way of getting them by just convincing others with limited experience to join so you make money without ever having to buy anything.
Show me where I said ANY of that...
Post: RENATUS SCHOOLING?
- Rental Property Investor
- Rockford, IL
- Posts 4,613
- Votes 2,995
Originally posted by @Phillip Tillotson:
Scott Rowe: http://freelambo.com/
It's funny.......the follow up videos have been changed. Also, I can't access them without it being live.....must have had poor results.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/nouveu-riche-jim-pic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouveau_Riche_%28real...
http://nouveau-riche.pissedconsumer.com/lied-about...
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=6928
Basically, google Scott Rowe - Nouveau Riche University -
In case you are wondering....Nouveau Riche was the school that closed due to it being illegal. Some of the people from that school helped develop Renatus.
Best link for last:
http://workathomeincomereviews.com/nouveauriche-ht...
This is the reason Renatus was created. To start where Nouveau Riche failed. I highly doubt it is much different.
I've spent enough time on this. I know that Renatus rep's will continue to defend/deflect. If a person still wants to do this then I wish you the best.
Better still: Google Scott Rowe - Renatus.
Nouveau Riche is dead. Period, end of statement.
Renatus is not Nouveau Riche. Period, end of statement.
Jim Piccolo "killed" Nouveau Riche through fiscal mismanagement. Period, end of statement.
"I highly doubt it is much different", Phillip said, posting from a position of no first-hand knowledge or experience.
Again, speaking from first-hand experience: Renatus is TOTALLY different from Nouveau Riche. If you want to know more, get some first-hand exposure to us so you can speak from knowledge instead of conjecture. Meetings are free to attend, as are on-line avails.
Post: RENATUS SCHOOLING?
- Rental Property Investor
- Rockford, IL
- Posts 4,613
- Votes 2,995
Originally posted by @J Scott:
Perhaps the issue is that you wouldn't recognize it if you did see it?
Anyway, in all the discussion here where you've insulted and questioned our experience and knowledge, you've yet to tell us about yourself.
What do you do for a living? Are you a full-time real estate investor? An entrepreneur? A business executive? Just trying to gauge your background as a successful business-person given your criticism of others' business knowledge.
Have many real estate deals have you done? You seem eager to criticize a couple people here (other than me) who have decades of experience and have done hundreds or thousands of deals worth many tens or hundreds of millions of dollars -- I'm curious if your criticism is coming from a place of knowledge or not.
So, tell us a bit about yourself...
Sorry, Jay, not going there. See my profile on this website.
You chose to assume a confrontational posture. I am simply responding in kind.