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All Forum Posts by: Account Closed
Account Closed has started 4 posts and replied 194 times.
Post: 5 Tips To Create A Real Wholesaling Business And Not a Chop Shop
- Maryland
- Posts 195
- Votes 53
It's a wishful thinking. As of this moment there is no such a thing as "fiduciary duty to seller" if you are out there making an offer to property owner as a wholesaler. There are protections under MD Loss Mitigation Laws already afforded to those who are 60 days past due on their loans, and to those who are not capable of comprehending and consenting to sign a contract, but if you go to an ADULT who owns a home and who is not in pre-foreclosure in MD and has his mental faculties INTACT, then you can make an offer (which should be for the wholesale value minus a fee you will be adding to your assignment agreement), and it's perfectly legal thing to do. It doesn't matter how many brokers and REA feel pained and whine and slander guys who don't have a license yet able to make money off their sweat. Come October 1, 2024 and wholesalers will have to disclose to sellers what exactly they are doing, but that should not be a big deal. However, if 2023 MD HB0301 [ https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/mgawebsite/Legislation/Details/HB0301?ys=2023RS ] , which failed miserably that same year, gets reintroduced and passes into law in 2025 then I hope to see lots of lawsuits challenging MD on it. It doesn't ban wholesaling per se. It bans anyone , including home owners and flippers, even buyers and renters and individuals engaging in buying, selling, offering to buy or sell any real estate in excess of one per year, unless they have REA license. It's such a brazen , communist and fascist overreach by state that it must surely be taken to court if it becomes a law next year. Then Plaintiffs shall ask for permanent injunction until after the merits of the case are decided by courts. I won't be surprised if it passes and becomes a law, after all US is steadily and progressively plunging itself into a lawless, Orwellian, Third World Country status lately. But surely those who goad the country and states to an abyss should be challenged in courts of law, the last resort of Citizenry to bring grievances and ask for righting the wrong.
Post: 5 Tips To Create A Real Wholesaling Business And Not a Chop Shop
- Maryland
- Posts 195
- Votes 53
Quote from @Chris Williams:
Quote from @Account Closed:
Not too hard for someone who reads and understand plain English, which is what it takes to understand the law. Or, if one can't read and comprehend it, pay $300 to an attorney and let them explain it to you. As long as wholesaling is legal it shouldn't be hard to do it while complying with the law. If they ban it, then court challenges are likely and how it will settle is to be seen.
Just get your license bro it is a few hundred dollars. It won't kill you. Sadly real estate costs money. Just follow the rules. You a sole investor are not going to overule a ruling made by legislators.
I wrote earlier that if wholesaling works out for me in MD (I will have at least 1 year to try it and see where it goes) , I will get a REA license. It takes 60 hours class, an exam and sponsorship from local REA. I just don't see how adding bureaucracy , burden of state and board regulations and adding costs to each transaction will benefit the business. After all this is not retail business, it's mean to find and supply cheap properties to investors many of whom rely on HML to finance the project. Someone will pay for this and it will be sellers who will get less for their property and retail buyers who will pay more for after repair house. And all this could be handled with existing laws in the books.
Quote from @Alan Asriants:
Quote from @Alan Asriants:
Quote from @Chris Williams:
Quote from @Alan Asriants:
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Alan Asriants:
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Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
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Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
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Quote from @Doug Smith:
Good Post, @Alan Asriants. From a lender's perspective, we're also seeing a lot of greed with some wholesalers raising their spread to the point that the math doesn't work for the end buyer. For instance, we had an application today where the wholesaler got a home under contract for $200k and then put a $50K mark-up on it to sell it to the "C" buyer for $250K. The math didn't work at $250K, but it works at $222K. They are sticking to their full $50K. We as a lender are passing on the deal. If you're a wholesaler, one much understand that a rising tide raises all ships. If you're end buyer can't get the numbers to work, you'll likely have no deal anyway. We used to do a ton of wholesale deals, but the spreads are getting out of hand.
Doug the big issue to me is as a cash buyer I do not get title insurance for the amount of the assignment fee.. I insist on it some title companies will allow it others wont.. its a big issue and I am sure many buyers out there who pay cash have no clue when they pay 250k for a property and the assingment fee is 50k they are only getting 200k in title insurance.. So if title is buggered and one has to make a claim and I seem to have to make about 1 a year with these deals coming through wholesalers if you dont have title insurance that includes the assignment fee you will lose that money.
Jay, why are you buying anything from wholesalers? Why don't you go out and find the sellers who own property directly, so you can buy from individual homeowners and cut the middleman out?
I get it. But if I were you and had such a negative perception of wholesalers, or any specific wholesale deal where I can't get a title fully insured, I would simply forego the assets offered by wholesaler/s. Every day I go buy things for my household I decide whether the price I pay for an item is worth it or not. If it's not, or if purchase is too risky and costly, I simply don't buy it.
As to assignment fee, the average is said to be $10,000, with actual fee ranging from $2,000 to $50,000 or more. It all depends on numbers. Let's assume I , as a wholesaler, after netting $2000 per deal x 20 deals I closed in an entire year, stumbled upon certain property in town A. I run comps with my agent and they come at $450,000. I have full report drawn from MLS. That's my ARV. I deduct 30% and arrive at 315K. I hire a contractor to do accurate estimate of repairs and they quote $45,000. That brings the total down to $270,000. Suppose I want to make $10,000 , so I am ready to write a contract for $260,000. That's my MAO. The seller is motivated and says they want to get out of that property ASAP and will give it to anyone who pays them $220,000. $270,000 is a fair price for that property for an investor. I run my numbers, I know the market, I know the ARV. If I send this property to my buyers I will have three people next day wanting to pay cash to buy it at $270,000. Suppose you, as an investor, also find out (through my RE agent) about that property and want to buy it. Do you think I should assign it to you for less than $270,000, so you can get full title insurance on it, while three other buyers are willing to buy it for 270K with no questions asked (and aware of the issue with title insurance)? How much should I assign it to you for? $230K? And forego other investors/buyers? If yes, please tell me why should I consider it a fair deal and give that contract to you, knowing that this house has $450K ARV after $45K spent on rehab/renovation? What I think is fair is for you to do what I did, to find that exact house or similar property on your own, close the deal at $220K and not deal with me at all. But if you go through me, then I am entitled to my fair share. You didn't pay me to work the entire year, driving one town after another, putting up signs, making cold calls, networking, paying for local ads to make $2000 on each deal I netted prior to this $50K gem. Why should I give it to you for less than it's worth in a wholesale market?
Correct if the title company you were using would not give me insurance sufficient to cover your fee I would not buy it or fund it for one of my JV Partners.. Risk is not worth it.. We have no shortage of deals so this would just be another one in our pipeline nothing special.. And if your other TRUE cash buyers were not smart enough to know about title insurance then thats one them. I suspect a lot of your buyers to most of your buyers are getting HML Loans in that case title insurance is for the amount of the loan and if the loan included our fee then they are insured.. I am sure these are issues your probably just not experienced enough to know of.
The reality is the writing is on the wall states are after NON licensed wholesaling assigning just is what it is.. the fact that you would make 50k on a 220k sale when a brokerage fee would be 15k.. thats 35k that is being taken from a seller who probably knows no better or has just been lied to by the wholesaler as to the real value.. and that is what the law makers and regulators are focused on..
The first part of your post makes sense and I find nothing to disagree with. It's a free market, no body can force anybody to buy or sell anything. If the product/contract/service I offer is not suitable to you then I don't want you to be my customer. We both can happily part our ways under free market conditions.
But the second part of your post implies that all sellers are idiots, or that I (or State) is a nanny that must make decisions for mentally deranged sellers , all of whom have an IQ of 10 years old child. I don't believe this to be true. On my part, I would avoid to close any transaction with someone who is handicapped, has IQ of 10 years old child and is unable to read and understand the contract they are signing. After all, if someone was clinically handicapped and not able to understand and consent to terms of the legal agreement, then the agreement itself could be declared null and void in the court of law.
I will be dealing with adults, not handicapped individuals. And it's their responsibility to figure what they want to ask for their property. I don't run charity, I don't run educational non-profit classes. By the way, that's one of the reasons I don't want to touch pre-foreclosures, with accounts delinquent for 60 days. Some wholesalers do, they go and offer to help sellers to stay in their homes, educate them about loss mitigation , ask if seller needs help with it and etc., before seller begs them to just rid them of their house. I will have none of it. It's none of my concern to educate or baby sit another adult in my state. No one did for to me, except for my parents, and I have no intention to parent strangers. But once I have an adult, with full cognitive abilities, who is motivated to sell and get out of that property for MAO or less, rest assured I will make my offer on that property and if they accept it I will write a contract. Let them State AG's come after me in droves, there is no crime in making an offer to someone who owns the property to buy it from them. It's marketing to public that is illegal and I have no intention to sell dilapidated , dirty , stinky and full of trash property to an end buyer in MD or anywhere. I won't sell it to investor either, I will simply secure my interest in the contract. So, which part of it is illegal or wrong? You could say I am taking it from seller if I had a contract for 220K and paid seller 185K. That would be stealing from a seller. But if seller is entitled to get more, then who is forcing them to give their property to me for 220K? Who is stopping them from finding you or other investor on their own and getting full $270K in their pocket? I certainly don't. Regulators and law makers in these blue states couldn't care less about the sellers. If they did they would have better economic policies , create safe neighborhoods and investor/business friendly atmosphere, to make their citizens prosper and able to afford the houses they live in, instead of losing it to banks in foreclosures. No, it's not the sellers they care about. They care about eating all the pie by themselves and sharing it with those who finance their campaigns and free vacations, that's what those law makers really care about. And while at it they will make sure there will be more poverty , more foreclosures and less opportunities for average Joe to make a living here. We all know the drill. I am just glad that we have 50 States and not all of them are blue and purple. So, we can still focus on doing business, even if it means we have to move out of blue and into a red state in the near future.
so Eric you have not actually done any deals it sounds like.. U understand the 70% minus rehab costs those numbers have been going around for a long time.. its pretty tough out there right now but hopefully you can make it work.. although I always wonder why those that want to sell real estate ( that is what your doing at the end of the day bringing a buyer and seller together) why you dont just get in the game with a license and make a career of it.. if your any good at sales and can stick to it can be a very rewarding occupation.. wholesalers they dont last very long unless they are very well capitalized and vertically integrated.
Good question, Jay. For couple of reasons. First, becoming REA requires 60 hours of schooling , and then you are stuck with less than 3% commission per transaction (see below link with average rates of REA's compensation), and tons of regulations on top of it while competing with hundreds of other realtors on MLS. It's just not worth doing it in my opinion. It works well for those who have been doing it for decades, but it may take at least a decade to get anywhere as REA.
Becoming a broker takes 3 years in MD after becoming REA. You can't apply and become a broker without those 3 years under your belt. And then you split commissions with agents and have a cap limiting what you can earn on each transaction regardless of the deal you struck. How is this fair to the broker?))
After much research and talking to people who did it all (running crews/flipping, owning to rent/passive investment, brokering, selling real estate as agents and etc.). I concluded that wholesaling is best to start with. Gradually, if you are able to make it work, you can explore flipping, owning to rent and other options to build wealth. But none offers a quick turn around and cash flow, with the least amount of headache and financial risks (not to confuse with the least amount of WORK), as wholesaling. It's just a good stepping stone when you enter the world of RE investment.
LINK: https://listwithclever.com/average-real-estate-commission-rate/maryland/
The average total real estate agent commission rate in Maryland is 5.34% of the final sale price. Based on the latest median home sale price in Maryland ($418,534), that translates to a total cost of roughly $22,350.
Home sellers typically cover the total commission fee from their sale proceeds, which is split between the listing and buyer’s agents who handle the sale. In Maryland, the average listing agent fee is 2.76%, while the average buyer’s agent fee is 2.58%.
Real estate agent commissions make up a significant portion of the closing costs for Maryland home sellers. But you don't have to pay the full 5.34% to a traditional agent. If you're selling a home in Maryland, you can use a discount broker to save on realtor fees. In fact, depending on your situation and the agents you work with, you could save 33% on realtor fees, or about $7,366 on average.
this is why wholesale guru's can sell 30k packages as people drink the cool aid basically verbatim of what you just said.. Any way like I said good luck..
Thank you. But from what I understand in wholesaling it's not so much luck but consistent work, good discipline, persistence and ability to analyze deal that deliver results. Discipline and consistent work would probably top the list, as analyzing the deal doesn't take much brain power and effort. Negotiating comes naturally once you properly analyze the deal.
The gurus are another subject. May be they are the ones who should be outlawed. There is absolutely nothing one can learn in this business worth paying 30K. The rules of the game are simple, can be read and understood in less than a day. It's amount of WORK and CONCENTRATION that will make a difference between make or break, and no GURU can make you stick to your regimen and do something persistently and systematically if you can't make yourself do it.
The issue is that many wholesalers falsely advertise themselves, lie, or keep seller in the dark to make the deal work. They lose deals unfortunately when they are transparent
A lot of people are stupid. Not just house owners/sellers, but people in general. 15 years ago I was in reverse logistics/liquidation business. I was able to consistently buy and then liquidate certain number of pallets/goods through the channel I have established. I would go to warehouses, negotiate/make an offer on a truckload of goods and then purchase one pallet at the time to help miserable seller to get rid of it. I never spent fortune to fill my warehouse with truckloads of goods, but I was buying them at the rate I could liquidate them and as long as I could liquidate them. Obviously, I profited handsomely while doing it. And what I recall is that out of 10-15 warehouses I dealt with ONLY TWO were owned by decent men who knew how to do business. One was a Chinese owned in NYC and another was owned by Hasidic Jew in New Jersey. These two were grateful to me that I was helping them clean their warehouse and get rid of their shittiest products that no one was willing to buy from them. All the rest grew resentful, angry and jealous when they saw how quickly I was moving their pallets. They were angry and resentful that I was making money on the trash that was sitting in their warehouses forever and that they couldn't sell to anyone on Earth. They would start playing games, sometimes pretending that they were not available or able to deliver goods. At others they would ghost me. Or, worst of all, try to go behind my back and find the distributor/seller I was dealing with, to cut me out of the deal. If I asked them why were they being so idiotic (of course in milder, non insulting terms), their answer would be "it's a dog eat dog town". Idiots! One of them lost the business and money couple of years later. I don't know what happened to others. But the point is, I am very well familiar with this idiotic type of product owner who is NEVER able to sell his goods, but gets angry and resentful at you if you help him to, because he thinks he is entitled to get what you get just because it's his goods that you found him a buyer for. I hope to spot sellers like that during my fist contact and send them to kick rocks and forever live in the $*it they are, with no help coming from me to get them rid of their property.
Nothing wrong with buying the property and closing on it then selling it for more. That is true wholesaling.
But flipping contracts and tying people up into deals they are blind about is a concern
I agree that people often times dont value your connections and are greedy to find out you can sell something for more. Best to just not work with those kinds of people. Your connections and time are certainly worth $$$
I think it is the right thing tbh. That being said I will admit that covering transfer taxes both times can hurt your bottom line.
But it will also get rid of those severely under-qualified who pressure people into buying dumps for a 5k profit.
If a wholesaler (or anyone) can pressure an investor to buy anything then that "investor" is an idiot who should never be in the business of investing in RE. Before COVID I was looking for a rehab property and almost got sold one by a licensed and registered in state database Real Estate Agent. She was my (buyer's) agent, not sellers'. She knew I was in it to make profit and was going to suffer severe loss if the property was a bad deal. She pushed it on me nevertheless. And I, being a newbie and an idiot, was willing to buy it. I had down payment and closing costs in cash ready. I was saved by HML who denied the loan, that was a free and valuable lesson. If the deal is bad don't buy it. Learn your trade before investing your money in RE.
Quote from @Chris Williams:
Quote from @Nate Marshall:
Quote from @Will Gaston:
@Alan Asriants there is a ton of nuance to these situations, but I am personally done with wholesalers who require me to tell an owner that I am their "business partner."
Transparency is best for all those acting in good faith.
The wholesaling gurus are amongst the worst. EMD funding gurus are catching up. Hamas gurus are like in 3rd now.

Yep. Real estate costs money. I think a lot of people want to run a business without any cash and are suprised that they have to have some capital to run a business over the long haul. It is not as easy as buy my course = be a millionaire lol.
In wholesaling you need capital for effective marketing. If you don't you will have to drive for dollars and just go from one neighborhood to another, to market in person. It's tedious thing to do and can burn you up quickly, but some people say they were able to get deals that way. Even that is not free: your time is has opportunity cost and gas is not free. Realistically, though, at bare minimum you should have enough money to subscribe to pop-streams, run your facebook ads, make cold calls, have CRM software, some money to invest into automations and etc. But the amount of the money required in wholesaling is nowhere near what it takes to purchase a home for cash, close on it and either rehab or resell to a highest bidder. There are also less headaches and risks. You don't have deal with contractors who may ghost you and bring to screeching halt your renovation project or loose your sleep over ever changing market conditions. If you can 100% finance the whole transaction and scale it relying on your capital then good for you, but a lot of rehabbers I know use hard money. They have skin in the game and put up large chunk of their own money, but what you do when your interest payments add up and crews you hire take their sweet time to finish the project? You will be lucky to break even. No such concerns exist in wholesaling. Once you assign the contract and get your fee you are done. As long as you can repeat the cycle you should continue getting cash flow. And if you fail miserably your losses will be in the amount of money you spend in marketing, and opportunity cost for the time dedicated to it. All bearable risks compared to putting $100K+ of your cash into any deal (at bare minimum) and then loosing it all due to slight mistake or unforeseeable events that you can't control. It's not about easy path to become a billionaire over night. Anyone who smokes a dream pipe will be hugely disappointed. It's about alternatives and minimal monetary investment required to make things work. Of course, if I had couple of million dollars in cash sitting in a bank account and doing nothing for me, wholesaling wouldn't be something I would consider. But it's an error to judge others' circumstances based on your own and preposterous to demand that others do things in a way that is most convenient for you. Each individual has to make a choice based on their own individual circumstances. For a lot of people wholesaling is a bad business to get involved in. Someone with $10+ mil cash may find it highly unattractive, time and energy consuming, with less reward that other things one could do with their capital. But for others it's a good stepping stone into RE. Rate of success in this business should be about the same as in any other ventures, where a lot depends on what you do, how you do it and how efficient you are at doing it. None of those things make wholesaling or wholesalers evil , malicious or doomed to fail per se.
Quote from @Chris Williams:
Quote from @Russell Brazil:
Anyone with this amount of push back against such simple regulation as the requirement to be licensed, and thus the ability of the state to provide easy redress shady operators, makes me think that person is a shady operator. Anyone who operates ethically has nothing to fear from the requirements to be licensed. Only those with something to hide have something to fear.
This is what I been saying for a while now.
You can, but it's called ad hominem and slander. I say it's OK to slander me because I see no harm in it at this moment.
This being said, slanders and ad hominems are the only refuges of those who can't argue the case based on its' merits.
Post: 5 Tips To Create A Real Wholesaling Business And Not a Chop Shop
- Maryland
- Posts 195
- Votes 53
Quote from @Chris Williams:
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Chris Williams:
Quote from @Account Closed:
Not too hard for someone who reads and understand plain English, which is what it takes to understand the law. Or, if one can't read and comprehend it, pay $300 to an attorney and let them explain it to you. As long as wholesaling is legal it shouldn't be hard to do it while complying with the law. If they ban it, then court challenges are likely and how it will settle is to be seen.
Just get your license bro it is a few hundred dollars. It won't kill you. Sadly real estate costs money. Just follow the rules. You a sole investor are not going to overule a ruling made by legislators.
Well while you are fighting the fed I am going to keep connecting. Have a good day.
Good for you, I am doing the same. But it's not federal law, it's MD Bill which didn't pass in 2023. Could be reintroduced in future. Not a law yet.
Post: 5 Tips To Create A Real Wholesaling Business And Not a Chop Shop
- Maryland
- Posts 195
- Votes 53
Quote from @Chris Williams:
Quote from @Account Closed:
Not too hard for someone who reads and understand plain English, which is what it takes to understand the law. Or, if one can't read and comprehend it, pay $300 to an attorney and let them explain it to you. As long as wholesaling is legal it shouldn't be hard to do it while complying with the law. If they ban it, then court challenges are likely and how it will settle is to be seen.
Just get your license bro it is a few hundred dollars. It won't kill you. Sadly real estate costs money. Just follow the rules. You a sole investor are not going to overule a ruling made by legislators.
Quote from @Scott Deetlefs:
Thank you so much for the information.
Do you know any immigration attorneys that I could get in contact with regarding this?
I am very interested in learning more.
Yes, you can own the company and it can do business in the US. You don't need a visa for that. Lots of foreign companies operate in the US, with shareholders not even living in the US. But you can't be employed by your business. You will have to have someone else do it for you. You could, for instance, buy a rental property and employ property management firm to take care of it, but you can't work for your company in any capacity and get paid for it. Of course you can collect the income generated by your business. Plenty of immigration attorneys are out there that can assist.
I don't know this attorney and don't endorse him, just found this article on the subject: https://www.chugh.com/news/h-1b-visas-and-entrepreneurship-can-h-1b-and-h-4-visa-holders-start-a-business?/h-1b-visas-and-entrepreneurship-can-h-1b-and-h-4-visa-holders-start-a-business#:~:text=An%20H%2D1B%20holder%20can,the%20company%20in%20any%20capacity.
Post: 5 Tips To Create A Real Wholesaling Business And Not a Chop Shop
- Maryland
- Posts 195
- Votes 53
Not too hard for someone who reads and understand plain English, which is what it takes to understand the law. Or, if one can't read and comprehend it, pay $300 to an attorney and let them explain it to you. As long as wholesaling is legal it shouldn't be hard to do it while complying with the law. If they ban it, then court challenges are likely and how it will settle is to be seen.
Post: 5 Tips To Create A Real Wholesaling Business And Not a Chop Shop
- Maryland
- Posts 195
- Votes 53
After carefully reading and researching the matter I am happy to say that wholesaling is not anywhere near dying. Knee-jerk attorneys who say they won't close in some states and jubilant REA/Brokers may disagree, but the attorneys who understand plain English advise that there is no ban on wholesaling coming. What is more likely to occur is transparency (wholesaler disclosing that he is a wholesaler, not marketing to public, making clear that he assigns an interest in the contract and not selling a property he owns and etc.). None of those things are likely to kill wholesaling as a business practice, despite passionate desire of brokers and some REA to the contrary.