All Forum Posts by: George Blower

@Brendan August

1) A CARES Act Distribution of pre-tax funds from an employer plan can be paid back to a non-Roth Rollover IRA. If the full distribution amount is recontributed to the IRA before your 2020 tax return deadline (including timely filed extension) then not taxes will be owed (although you will still need to work with your tax advisor to report the distribution on your 1040 but you will report the taxable amount as zero - similar to reporting an indirect 60-day rollover).

2) Keep in mind that in order to take a distribution under the CARES Act you must have been impacted by the virus in one of the enumerated ways & your current account provider must allow you to take a CARES Act distribution. The IRS recently provided guidance regarding eligibility under the CARES Act and specified that a qualified individual includes an individual who has a reduction in pay (or self-employment income) due to COVID-19. Note: It is too late to take a loan under the CARES Act.

Distributions:

If so, you can take a penalty-free distribution (as well as waive the 20% withholding requirement) from your 401k (assuming that the employer allows it) anytime between 1/1/2020 and 12/31/2020. You may avoid the taxes if you deposit the funds in an eligible retirement plan (which includes anIRA) within "3 years and a day" of the date of the COVID-19 distribution (note: compare to a 60-day rollover). Please note that the account into which the funds are deposited must be the same type of account from which the funds were first withdrawn (e.g. withdrawal of pre-tax funds from a 401k could be deposited in a pre-tax IRA but not a Roth IRA - "like to like").

1) Here are the general considerations regarding 401k loans.

401k Participant Loans

• If your 401k plan allows for 401k participant loans, the maximum loan amount is equal to 50% of the balance up to $50k. The repayment terms for a 401k participant loan are equal monthly/quarterly payments of principal and interest (typically prime plus 1%) over a 5 year term (longer if used to acquire your principal residence).
• Please note that if you take a full $50,000 and then pay back the loan, you can't take another $50,000 until 12 months after the first loan was fully paid back.
• Per the loan offset rules that went into effect with the 2018 Tax and Job Act: if you leave your job and the loan is current at the time you leave your job but then the loan goes into default because you left your job, you will have until your tax return deadline (including any timely filed extension) to make the loan current by depositing the outstanding balance into an IRA (and thereby avoid the taxes and penalties that would otherwise apply).



Please keep in mind the multiple loan rules:

Under those rules, the sum of the balances of a participant's outstanding 401k loans under a single 401k plan (using the highest outstanding balance of each loan over the last 12 months) can't exceed 50% or $50,000 whichever is less. Thus, if you took a $50,000 loan and paid it back within 6 months, you would need to wait another 6 months before you could take another $50,000 loan.

2) Keep in mind that in order to take a distribution under the CARES Act you must have been impacted by the virus in one of the enumerated ways & your current account provider must allow you to take a CARES Act distribution. The IRS recently provided guidance regarding eligibility under the CARES Act and specified that a qualified individual includes an individual who has a reduction in pay (or self-employment income) due to COVID-19.Note: It is too late to take a loan under the CARES Act.

Distributions:

If so, you can take a penalty-free distribution (as well as waive the 20% withholding requirement) from your 401k (assuming that the employer allows it) anytime between 1/1/2020 and 12/31/2020. You may avoid the taxes if you deposit the funds in an eligible retirement plan (which includes anIRA) within "3 years and a day" of the date of the COVID-19 distribution (note: compare to a 60-day rollover). Please note that the account into which the funds are deposited must be the same type of account from which the funds were first withdrawn (e.g. withdrawal of pre-tax funds from a 401k could be deposited in a pre-tax IRA but not a Roth IRA - "like to like").

3) If you are self-employed (i.e. active self-employment earned income separate from your w-2 income) with no full-time w-2 employees, you can set up a Solo 401k and then rollover your 401k funds from your former employer 401k and/or non-Roth IRA.

• You could then take a loan of up to 50% of the balance not to exceed $50,000. Please be sure to select a Solo 401k plan provider which allows you to take a loan and will prepare the required 401k loan documents.
• The repayment terms are equal monthly/quarterly payments (as you prefer) of principal and interest (e.g. prime + 1%) spread over a 5 year term (or longer if you will use the loan to purchase your primary residence).
• There are no prepayment penalties and no restrictions on what you can do with the proceeds of the 401k loan.
• Please note that you are obligated to pay back their 401k (regardless of the performance of your real estate investment).
• As an alternative to taking the loan, you could even purchase the investment property directly using funds in your Solo 401k (assuming you select a Solo 401k plan provider which allows you to invest in real estate). If you don't have enough Solo 401k funds to purchase the property as an all-cash deal, you can combine your Solo 401k funds with non-recourse debt to purchase the investment property. Learn more about non-recourse lenders here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/9552/70408-ira-and-solo-401k-non-recourse-lenders

While one would need to review legislative/regulatory history to really understand the "why" one can deduce that it comes down to the fact that rules are different (e.g. rules for calculating 5-year "clock" for qualified distributions, etc).

@John Yoo

1) On the surface your situation sounds viable but of course we have to stop short of providing tax advice and you would need to confirm with your tax advisor.  

2) The 20% withholding requirement and 10% early withdrawal penalties don't apply to a CARES Act Distrbution.

3) The amount of a CARES Act Distribution is still subject to income tax and will depend on your income tax rate and whether you elect to spread out the income tax over 3 years.

@Daniel Dietz

@Lisa Koontz

1) Thanks for the positive feedback on the video! I am pretty confident it is not allowed but one can simply Google "deep dive cares act distribution my solo 401k" to watch the webinar.

2) Yes re-contribution of CARES Act Distribution of Roth 401k to Roth IRA is allowed but one cannot re-contribute a CARES Act Distribution of a Roth IRA to a Roth 401k because the CARES Act does not create an exception to the Roth IRA rules that don't allow the rollover of Roth IRA funds to a Roth 401k.

 If you are eligible to set up a Self-directed Solo 401k (i.e. self-employed with no full-time w2 employees) and you are eligible to withdraw funds from your current employer plan, it would be easier (as well as avoid mandatory 20% withholding for taxable distribution from your current employer 401k) to simply process a direct rollover/trustee-to-trustee transfer from your existing 401k plan to your solo 401k.  Please ask the administrator of your 401k for the forms to process a transfer to another qualified retirement plan and then forward to your self-directed solo 401k plan to help you complete the transfer form.

@Seth Hochberg

1) Here are the general considerations regarding 401k loans.

401k Participant Loans

• If your 401k plan allows for 401k participant loans, the maximum loan amount is equal to 50% of the balance up to $50k. The repayment terms for a 401k participant loan are equal monthly/quarterly payments of principal and interest (typically prime plus 1%) over a 5 year term (longer if used to acquire your principal residence).
• Please note that if you take a full $50,000 and then pay back the loan, you can't take another $50,000 until 12 months after the first loan was fully paid back.
• Per the loan offset rules that went into effect with the 2018 Tax and Job Act: if you leave your job and the loan is current at the time you leave your job but then the loan goes into default because you left your job, you will have until your tax return deadline (including any timely filed extension) to make the loan current by depositing the outstanding balance into an IRA (and thereby avoid the taxes and penalties that would otherwise apply).



Please keep in mind the multiple loan rules:

Under those rules, the sum of the balances of a participant's outstanding 401k loans under a single 401k plan (using the highest outstanding balance of each loan over the last 12 months) can't exceed 50% or $50,000 whichever is less. Thus, if you took a $50,000 loan and paid it back within 6 months, you would need to wait another 6 months before you could take another $50,000 loan.

2) Keep in mind that in order to take a distribution under the CARES Act you must have been impacted by the virus in one of the enumerated ways & your current account provider must allow you to take a CARES Act distribution. The IRS recently provided guidance regarding eligibility under the CARES Act and specified that a qualified individual includes an individual who has a reduction in pay (or self-employment income) due to COVID-19.Note: It is too late to take a loan under the CARES Act.

Distributions:

If so, you can take a penalty-free distribution (as well as waive the 20% withholding requirement) from your 401k (assuming that the employer allows it) anytime between 1/1/2020 and 12/31/2020. You may avoid the taxes if you deposit the funds in an eligible retirement plan (which includes anIRA) within "3 years and a day" of the date of the COVID-19 distribution (note: compare to a 60-day rollover). Please note that the account into which the funds are deposited must be the same type of account from which the funds were first withdrawn (e.g. withdrawal of pre-tax funds from a 401k could be deposited in a pre-tax IRA but not a Roth IRA - "like to like").

@Nicholas Grandstaff

1) Here are the general considerations regarding 401k loans.

401k Participant Loans

• If your 401k plan allows for 401k participant loans, the maximum loan amount is equal to 50% of the balance up to $50k. The repayment terms for a 401k participant loan are equal monthly/quarterly payments of principal and interest (typically prime plus 1%) over a 5 year term (longer if used to acquire your principal residence).
• Please note that if you take a full $50,000 and then pay back the loan, you can't take another $50,000 until 12 months after the first loan was fully paid back.
• Per the loan offset rules that went into effect with the 2018 Tax and Job Act: if you leave your job and the loan is current at the time you leave your job but then the loan goes into default because you left your job, you will have until your tax return deadline (including any timely filed extension) to make the loan current by depositing the outstanding balance into an IRA (and thereby avoid the taxes and penalties that would otherwise apply).



Please keep in mind the multiple loan rules:

Under those rules, the sum of the balances of a participant's outstanding 401k loans under a single 401k plan (using the highest outstanding balance of each loan over the last 12 months) can't exceed 50% or $50,000 whichever is less. Thus, if you took a $50,000 loan and paid it back within 6 months, you would need to wait another 6 months before you could take another $50,000 loan.

2) Keep in mind that in order to take a distribution under the CARES Act you must have been impacted by the virus in one of the enumerated ways & your current account provider must allow you to take a CARES Act distribution. The IRS recently provided guidance regarding eligibility under the CARES Act and specified that a qualified individual includes an individual who has a reduction in pay (or self-employment income) due to COVID-19.Note: It is too late to take a loan under the CARES Act.

Distributions:

If so, you can take a penalty-free distribution (as well as waive the 20% withholding requirement) from your 401k (assuming that the employer allows it) anytime between 1/1/2020 and 12/31/2020. You may avoid the taxes if you deposit the funds in an eligible retirement plan (which includes anIRA) within "3 years and a day" of the date of the COVID-19 distribution (note: compare to a 60-day rollover). Please note that the account into which the funds are deposited must be the same type of account from which the funds were first withdrawn (e.g. withdrawal of pre-tax funds from a 401k could be deposited in a pre-tax IRA but not a Roth IRA - "like to like").

@Jay Yoo

@Ray Evans

1) A CARES Act Distribution is not subject to the 10% penalty that applies to early distributions (i.e. distributions taken before one turns 59.5).

2) A CARES Act distribution is still subject to income tax (not capital gains tax).

3) Keep in mind that in order to take a distribution under the CARES Act you must have been impacted by the virus in one of the enumerated ways & your current account provider must allow you to take a CARES Act distribution. The IRS recently provided guidance regarding eligibility under the CARES Act and specified that a qualified individual includes an individual who has a reduction in pay (or self-employment income) due to COVID-19.Note: It is too late to take a loan under the CARES Act.

Distributions:

If so, you can take a penalty-free distribution (as well as waive the 20% withholding requirement) from your 401k (assuming that the employer allows it) anytime between 1/1/2020 and 12/31/2020. You may avoid the taxes if you deposit the funds in an eligible retirement plan (which includes anIRA) within "3 years and a day" of the date of the COVID-19 distribution (note: compare to a 60-day rollover). Please note that the account into which the funds are deposited must be the same type of account from which the funds were first withdrawn (e.g. withdrawal of pre-tax funds from a 401k could be deposited in a pre-tax IRA but not a Roth IRA - "like to like").

@Lisa Koontz

@Tech Cheng

1) A CARES Act Distribution of pre-tax funds from an employer plan can be paid back to a non-Roth Rollover IRA. If the full distribution amount is recontributed to the IRA before your 2020 tax return deadline (including timely filed extension) then not taxes will be owed (although you will still need to work with your tax advisor to report the distribution on your 1040 but you will report the taxable amount as zero - similar to reporting an indirect 60-day rollover).

2) Keep in mind that in order to take a distribution under the CARES Act you must have been impacted by the virus in one of the enumerated ways & your current account provider must allow you to take a CARES Act distribution. The IRS recently provided guidance regarding eligibility under the CARES Act and specified that a qualified individual includes an individual who has a reduction in pay (or self-employment income) due to COVID-19. Note: It is too late to take a loan under the CARES Act.

Distributions:

If so, you can take a penalty-free distribution (as well as waive the 20% withholding requirement) from your 401k (assuming that the employer allows it) anytime between 1/1/2020 and 12/31/2020. You may avoid the taxes if you deposit the funds in an eligible retirement plan (which includes anIRA) within "3 years and a day" of the date of the COVID-19 distribution (note: compare to a 60-day rollover). Please note that the account into which the funds are deposited must be the same type of account from which the funds were first withdrawn (e.g. withdrawal of pre-tax funds from a 401k could be deposited in a pre-tax IRA but not a Roth IRA - "like to like").